Participation Trophies (Full Version)

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sloguy02246 -> Participation Trophies (6/24/2016 2:52:09 PM)

In yesterday's Chicago Tribune, John Keilman wrote a column entitled, "Speaking out in defense of the participation trophy."

Among his comments:

"The most scorned sentence in the English language these days is, "Everyone gets a trophy." Seriously. Google it and see what comes up.
If we are drowning in a swamp of unearned self-esteem, as some social scientists argue, trophy hating represents the backlash.

Listen to Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison on Instagram:
"I came home to find out that my boys received two trophies for nothing, participation trophies. While I am very proud of my boys for everything they do and will encourage them till the day I die, these trophies will be given back until they EARN a real trophy." The post received nearly 20,000 likes and 4,000 comments many along this line: "He's teaching his kids not to be like the rest of the soft people in America."

A majority of Americans share this view, according to a 2014 poll conducted by the Reason Foundation. And, surprise, surprise, the more money a person earns and the more education he achieves, the more likely he is to think that only winners should get trophies.

When I read stuff like this, my first reaction is that people haven't been paying attention if they think this is new. I got plenty of participation ribbons as a young swimmer 30-some years ago and I don't recall anyone moaning that they would lead to the downfall of Western civilization.
My second reaction is that people who believe participation trophies give children delusions of grandeur must think kids are idiots. Kids understand that such tokens don't indicate how they stack up against their peers.
Participation trophies are a tiny deviation from the norm, a simple recognition of of the time and effort that went into a season. When I give them out, I say a little bit about how each kid contributed to the team, whether through their energy, their skill, or their spirit. There's always something to praise.

Why does something so benign infuriate so many people? I think it's because we're scared that we haven't done enough to prepare our kids for the brutally competitive world we're passing on to them. A participation trophy is seen as a sign of weakness, an indication that they're not tough or talented enough to survive.
This is nonsense, of course.
But if you really think these keepsakes give children a skewed view of life, I advise you to drop by the registration tent of a 5K race and watch what happens when the organizers run out of T-shirts. Grown adults mope and whine about missing out on the souvenir they were supposed to receive before even running the race.

That's not a participation trophy; it's a pre-participation trophy, a clear sign of decline in the American character. Maybe James Harrison should write an Instagram post about that."

(More at www.chicagotribune.com)
_____________

I never received any trophies or ribbons, but my daughter has a few from high school, including participation ribbons. Those ribbons still hang in her room, right beside all the others she earned for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place finishes.

Personally. I don't see the harm in acknowledging a child's participation with some sort of token and I don't think the child is harmed by receiving one. Seems the parents are the only ones creating any significance to the gesture.








Kaliko -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/24/2016 3:59:36 PM)

I don't think participation trophies are an issue. I think it's the "Everyone's a winner!" kind of prize that bothers people. They are different things, in my mind.




OsideGirl -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/24/2016 4:25:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

But if you really think these keepsakes give children a skewed view of life, I advise you to drop by the registration tent of a 5K race and watch what happens when the organizers run out of T-shirts. Grown adults mope and whine about missing out on the souvenir they were supposed to receive before even running the race.


A T-shirt isn't the same thing as a trophy - a trophy is something given to a winner

quote:

1. a cup or other decorative object awarded as a prize for a victory or success.

2.
(in ancient Greece or Rome) the weapons and other spoils of a defeated army set up as a memorial of victory.


I have no issue with someone receiving an item for participating, but I do with someone receiving a trophy for just showing up. Hell, I've witnessed a soccer game where they didn't keep score.

It creates a sense of "All I have to do is show up" and it's actually now causing problems with employers. There have been a few articles lately focusing on how HR Departments are having to deal with people who don't understand that it's also about applying yourself.




dcnovice -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/24/2016 5:25:40 PM)

FR

In my day, kids earned trophies.

We ran ten miles.

Uphill.

Barefoot.

In the snow.




sloguy02246 -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/24/2016 5:50:06 PM)

FR -

I still don't see the problem with the "participation" token being a trophy instead of a T-shirt or some other trinket, as long as the first, second, and third place finishers receive trophies stating they finished 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Kids are not stupid.
They know which of their peers are the best people on the field and understand that group will likely finish at the top.
Maybe look at it another way: if the not-so-talented kids see the talented ones repeatedly winning and receiving the trophies, why would they even want to bother entering the competition after finishing at the bottom multiple times?

If handled correctly, "participation" awards could keep a lesser-talented child's interest in the sport alive.







DesFIP -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/24/2016 8:25:56 PM)

What all these people who say only winners deserve a trophy don't understand is that some kids never will win.

They know that they're the shortest kid on the basketball team. They don't need their parents rubbing their incompetence in.

We want kids to participate in sports because it's good for them. It promotes healthy habits, a work ethic, and the understanding that no matter how hard you work, sometimes you still lose.

And that's okay. You still deserve kudos for the work you put in.
If giving a 3rd grader a trophy makes him feel better, and encourages him to try again next season, then I'm all for it.

My oldest rode horses. Two miles from here is probably the best trainer in the state. She did 4H against kids with no coaching, badly trained ponies in their back yard. She won a lot, but it wasn't inborn talent. It was luck that this good a trainer happened to be in the same town as us.

All those kids who brought their horses, kids who didn't have a chance to win, they earned those white exhibitor ribbons just for showing up when they knew they didn't have a chance to win. It took a lot more guts for them to go and compete than it did for the kids she rode with.

And when she competed against the top kids in the nation, we knew that the winner was going to be the one who rode a professionally trained horse, whose parents could afford to fly her every weekend to the trainer. My daughter's horse wasn't anyway near that level. But she earned her ribbon for competing by showing up in Oklahoma for ten days in temps over 100 degrees. By shoveling horse shit. By practicing at 2:00 AM when there was an open slot in the arena.

So don't tell me there's no purpose in rewarding participation, because I know better.




Kaliko -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/25/2016 5:38:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

And that's okay. You still deserve kudos for the work you put in.
If giving a 3rd grader a trophy makes him feel better, and encourages him to try again next season, then I'm all for it.



Sort of in response to DesFIP, but also more of a FR:

And that's okay. Like I said above (but I was called away and couldn't type more at the time), I see participation awards different from making an excuse for everyone to be a winner. I don't really know the psychology behind it, but - last time I did the Special Olympics Penguin Plunge, my team and I took a picture together. I rarely see any of those people, they're not my "friends," I haven't done it since, and I surely didn't win anything that day. But I was given that picture in a nice frame for my participation, and I displayed it at home, in a place that only I saw, for about a year. It made me feel good and maybe reminded me that I'm not completely selfish all the time. I imagine that this type of positive reinforcement is a good thing at any age, perhaps even more for kids as they are developing. And yes, DesFIP, you're right. Sometimes we do need to acknowledge the sheer balls it sometimes takes to do things.

The problem is more that some places won't declare a "winner" so that everyone can win. Again, I don't know the psychology behind it so I might be dead wrong, but I would think that kids should have the opportunity to learn how to experience not winning in a safe/structured environment in order to develop the skills necessary to handles losses later in life without becoming a nutcase about it.

Some people consider me guilty of making excuses to "coddle" our youth. I firmly believe that anti-bullying legislation and policies are necessary for equal access to education, but there are plenty of parents who think their kids should be able to tough it out on the schoolyard. I have my arguments in favor of technology for certain kids versus being forced to go outside and play stickball. But this is one current-day practice that really does rub me the wrong way: taking away the experience of losing.

Of course, it will happen eventually. At some point, youth organizations and schools do pull away from this practice. But it's at too late a stage, in my opinion, to develop the skills to deal with it - and teens and pre-teens already have to battle so much. It's not right to put learning to lose on them too because we, the adults, didn't want to deal with something difficult or see our child cry.





ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/25/2016 5:02:36 PM)

quote:

What all these people who say only winners deserve a trophy don't understand is that some kids never will win.

So? That's just part of life, some of us are good at things others are not good at.




OsideGirl -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/25/2016 5:47:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

What all these people who say only winners deserve a trophy don't understand is that some kids never will win.

So? That's just part of life, some of us are good at things others are not good at.
When I showed horses I knew I wasn't always going to win. In fact, when I transitioned from 4-H to the A circuit the first three months were a complete drought for even placing. What I did was work harder, sought feed back and figured out my strong point.

Competition is a fact of life, kids need to learn to deal with not winning. They also need to learn that to succeed in life it takes more than showing up.

Honestly, the last employee I fired couldn't figure out how I could fire him when he had shown up everyday. I fired him because he wasn't doing his share of the work load, even after being given an additional 30 days after the 90 day probationary period.




DesFIP -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/25/2016 7:50:15 PM)

The only sport I ever saw that didn't keep score, didn't have winners and losers was T ball which was entirely composed of first graders.

Honestly, teaching them to drop the bat instead of hurling it towards the kid waiting at bat was a success.
And if you could get through to them that second base came after first and third after second, then you were the best coach ever. But they all won just for following directions. The prizes given out was a popsicle.




DesFIP -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/25/2016 7:51:44 PM)

The only sport I ever saw that didn't keep score, didn't have winners and losers was T ball which was entirely composed of first graders.

Honestly, teaching them to drop the bat instead of hurling it towards the kid waiting at bat was a success.
And if you could get through to them that second base came after first and third after second, then you were the best coach ever. But they all won just for following directions. The prizes given out was a popsicle.




OsideGirl -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/25/2016 8:59:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The only sport I ever saw that didn't keep score, didn't have winners and losers was T ball which was entirely composed of first graders.

Honestly, teaching them to drop the bat instead of hurling it towards the kid waiting at bat was a success.
And if you could get through to them that second base came after first and third after second, then you were the best coach ever. But they all won just for following directions. The prizes given out was a popsicle.

In CA there are soccer leagues that don't keep score....and it's not just the really young kids. They don't allow cheering for players from the stands either.




Greta75 -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/26/2016 8:57:55 AM)

FR

As someone who always won trophies as a kid in sports! Like truly winning it through hard work and training hard to beat everybody else!

I would be quite upset if everybody got a trophy.

We had a marathon event here, where they ran out of time, and cut short the route for about quite a huge number of people lagging behind.

And they ran about 10km shorter!!! I mean a marathon is 42km, and those folks only ran like 30km or so, and YET, they were given 42km Finisher T-shirts! Man!!! That pissed everybody who did the hard work and finished the whole 42km!!

And the organisers said that bullshit about wanting those who were lagging behind and not making the cut off time to feel discouraged, and to try harder next year!

Those folks aren't gonna try harder next year! They ran 30km and got the Finisher T-shirt anyway! They're done, and probably will not run again. I was just glad I didn't run in that marathon or I'd be fuming mad! My Finisher T Shirt would mean nothing!




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/26/2016 9:07:43 AM)

quote:

I would be quite upset if everybody got a trophy.

Why? How does it affect you?




Greta75 -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/26/2016 9:08:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

I would be quite upset if everybody got a trophy.

Why? How does it affect you?

It tells me hardwork means nothing. It's a waste of time. I should have just been lazy, done nothing and I'd get the trophy ANYWAY!
I'd be pissed off I bothered to work and suffer my ass off to do well in that event.

In Athletic/Sports Events, to Win, you give up alot of time and put alot of time into training for it. You got to be super dedicated. So all that would mean absolutely nothing, wasted effort. I could have like, go hang out and play with my friends instead of pushing myself and suffer through all that work.




blnymph -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/26/2016 9:53:20 AM)

Good parenting does not necessarily imply making your kid's life miserable.

If yours has the talent to be the future gold medalist, encourage him/her.
If yours is the shortest in the basketball team - there are lots of other and possibly better choices to support.




Greta75 -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/26/2016 10:02:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

Good parenting does not necessarily imply making your kid's life miserable.

If yours has the talent to be the future gold medalist, encourage him/her.
If yours is the shortest in the basketball team - there are lots of other and possibly better choices to support.

Actually, since a kid, my parents have been very unsupportive and negative towards me a female doing sports. They say it's not lady-like to do sports, and wanted me to quit all my sporting activities. Their exact words, "All these Gold Medals are useless to you in the future. And useless to you as a woman!" My dad has a full cabinet of medals and trophies too and I was kicking his ass. I think he didn't feel proud of me at all. But disgusted at me.

It was my own accord to keep pushing at it, because I felt I was good at it, and with training hard, I won Gold Medals consistently on all the events I trained for. I saw the value of working for something and seeing the results. So I kept at it.

It was 100% my own free will, and AGAINST my parent's wishes.




igor2003 -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/26/2016 10:27:23 AM)

--FR--

First, I don't mind the idea of "participation" ribbons, trophies, etc. . . .as long as the winners or first three places get something above and beyond that to show appreciation for their efforts of getting to the top.

LOL. . .imagine the Olympics if all they gave out was "participation" acknowledgements. The people who had trained and worked hard to be at the top get nothing to show for their efforts.

Most people have the talent to be good at something . . .IF they really try. But just because they want to be a quarterback in the NFL doesn't mean they are going to be good enough to get there, so as kids they don't need to be taught that they deserve to be an NFL quarterback just because they threw a football once.

And lastly, about the t-shirts at fun runs . . . When I was younger and without the physical problems I have today I ran in quite a few 5 & 10k fun runs. The t-shirts that were handed out were NOT "given" just for showing up. You PAID for the t-shirts as part of your entry fee. And if people paid their entry fee and were promised a t-shirt, then they had a right to bitch and moan about it.

Okay.......can I borrow two cents to pay for my time here? (I want to get a participation t-shirt!)




DesFIP -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/26/2016 12:14:08 PM)

What I found funny about the NFL player the op quoted was that he wasn't a winner. He didn't get named league MVP, he didn't get a Super Bowl ring. Basically he's just another participant. Talk about hypocrisy.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Participation Trophies (6/26/2016 4:26:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

I would be quite upset if everybody got a trophy.

Why? How does it affect you?

It tells me hardwork means nothing. It's a waste of time. I should have just been lazy, done nothing and I'd get the trophy ANYWAY!
I'd be pissed off I bothered to work and suffer my ass off to do well in that event.

In Athletic/Sports Events, to Win, you give up alot of time and put alot of time into training for it. You got to be super dedicated. So all that would mean absolutely nothing, wasted effort. I could have like, go hang out and play with my friends instead of pushing myself and suffer through all that work.

How does somebody else getting some trophy that says "Participant" in any way diminish your trophy saying whatever you placed? Do you need other people to get nothing to validate your efforts? Are you really that invested in being "better"?




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