quote:

What you meant is abundantly unclear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Part of the problem with female privilege is the way in which women seek sanction for their violent behaviour and are enabled in their ongoing abuse. The constant refrain that they "can't possibly hurt a man" leads to excusing the violent tendencies of women. Decades of statistics have shown that women are as equally - if not more so - violent as men, yet the feminist victim-hood industry attempts to portray domestic violence as a male problem.

This story is the tragic result of that constant pandering and enabling of female violence:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-36722114

Liam Fee was a two year old boy murdered by his lesbian mother and her female partner. They beat him so badly his heart ruptured, but not before they broke his leg and fractured his arm, then spent time googling the internet for "can wives be in prison together"?

This child is dead because the feminist movement's enabling of women's violent behaviour continues unabated. And yet despite this, you have feminist academics arguing - in all seriousness - "We should stop putting women in jail. For anything." -> https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/11/06/we-should-stop-putting-women-in-jail-for-anything/

This is why people fight against the cancer that is feminism. And yes, this IS feminism. This is the ugly, raw, truth of a movement dedicated to removing women's responsibility for themselves and replacing it with pandering and enabling of appalling behaviour.

Oh, and one other thing: Lesbian relationships are, by far, the most violent relationships. And yet, strangely, we don't have feminists calling for education programs for lesbians to teach them not to assault and murder. How astonishing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml (edited for brevity)

<snipped>

Thank you, crazyml. I didn't want you to feel too much like you're holding my hand here, but it really helps to know that we're talking about the same thing. Per your comments, that gender equality speaks to equality of treatment and opportunity, I think I support the latter, but not the former.

quote:


Consider the wikipedia snippet above. The phrase "discriminated against" requires that another one must be "discriminated in favour of" or the word discriminate, whose latin root leads also to the more plain english "Distinguish", makes no sense. I think that all but the most dogmatically egalitarian person would have a hard time invalidating every positive discrimination on any sort of ethical grounds.

quote:


I also appreciated you posting those articles, though "It will blow your mind!" was a bit of an oversell.

quote:



Also the listicle you slipped in there gives my browser a bit of a headache. I am happy to recognize feminism's historical contributions to humanism in general, but all too often when someone points to some detrimental effect on society, and accuses feminism of being the cause of it, it is too easily for my taste dismissed with either "that has nothing to do with feminism", "That's not true feminism." or "That's only radical feminism." At least nobody says "Feminism works in mysterious ways..."

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

As do I. Now, it would be interesting to see how many male prison inmates are the sole carers for small children. I'm going to take a wild guess and say I bet that male prison inmates who are the sole carers for small children are outnumbered significantly by female prison inmates that are the sole carers for small children.

Now, what if nether of us can find an example of a program that provides a similar option? What should we do about it? Should we simply close the current programs down? Or should we work change the existing programs or to set up programs that are more inclusive? Or should we flap and whine about the evils of feminism? Which approach do you think is most likely to result in the best outcome?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

As do I. Now, it would be interesting to see how many male prison inmates are the sole carers for small children. I'm going to take a wild guess and say I bet that male prison inmates who are the sole carers for small children are outnumbered significantly by female prison inmates that are the sole carers for small children.

Now, what if nether of us can find an example of a program that provides a similar option? What should we do about it? Should we simply close the current programs down? Or should we work change the existing programs or to set up programs that are more inclusive? Or should we flap and whine about the evils of feminism? Which approach do you think is most likely to result in the best outcome?

Oh my goodness, I hope that here are rehabilitation and assistance programs that men can turn to when they leave prison. But my guess is (and a quick Google check confirms my guess) that these programs are open to men and women. My issue is not that these programs exist. It's that these particular ones exist specifically for women based on the fact that they need nurturing and support in a different way than men, presumably, and because they have young children to care for - as if men don't.

quote:



And it's hardly flapping and whining.

quote:




It's... a discussion board. I've made the argument before that we all can't fight every injustice. It's impossible. So though I am here talking about this with you, I'm not out picketing these programs in real life, and I'm not inflicting strangers with my or anyone else's view of feminism. My issues of choice to focus my energy on do not include feminism. This is just a conversation in a place designed specifically for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
Worth noting though that the latin roots of distinguish and discriminate are quite different. Discriminate has a root in the latin verb discriminare, while Distinguish comes from distingere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
Worth noting though that the latin roots of distinguish and discriminate are quite different. Discriminate has a root in the latin verb discriminare, while Distinguish comes from distingere.

Thank you, crazyml. I have been thinking the wrong way about this for some decades. I grew up using the word distinguish simply as the English translation for discriminer in my native tongue.

Thanks for disabusing me of this rotten chunk of folk-etym.

quote:



Also worth noting, in their etymologies is that the distinction beyond the initial three letters, between what they both meant to Caesar is almost exactly in the opposite direction, compared to the distance between them in common usage today.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
Really? Does this equality you are happy with also include say; income equality, or financial equality? I am sure you favour equality of opportunity, but what about equality of outcome? Is that included in your equality?
No, I didn't think so, but that just goes to show that sometimes we need to be specific about just what sort of equality we are discussing.

Equality of outcome can not be guaranteed without near complete loss of liberty.

I agree. There have been plenty of wonderfully optimistic attempts to create societies and social systems that promise equality of outcome, I've not seen any that didn't turn into complete frikken disasters though.

Most of the definitions of gender equality speak to equality of treatment and opportunity

Here's what came up in my google on searching "what is gender equality"

quote:

noun
1.the state of having the same rights, status, and opportunities as others, regardless of one's gender.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/gender-equality

quote:

Gender equality is achieved when women and men enjoy the same rights and opportunities across all sectors of society, including economic participation and decision-making, and when the different behaviours, aspirations and needs of women and men are equally valued and favoured.

http://www.genderequality.ie/en/ge/pages/whatisge

quote:

Gender equality, also known as sex equality, gender egalitarianism, sexual equality, or equality of the genders, is the view that everyone should receive equal treatment and not be discriminated against based on their gender.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_equality

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
I don't think that the misconceptions that some have about feminism are easy to dismiss at all!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
I don't think that the misconceptions that some have about feminism are easy to dismiss at all!

crazyml, I promise I won't make a habit of quoting little snippets of your text, but one of the words you use makes an impression.

quote:




I appreciate that you don't take reasoned arguments lightly, and that from time to time arguments may come down the pipe which aren't exactly reasoned, and I get the feeling you'll give anyone who uses media apart from brown cardboard and body odour to make their point a fair shake.

This is why the word has bounced about my head a few times. The word is misconceptions.

I brought up the idea that someone would level some charge or other at feminism, as well my own grievance that those charges are too easily dismissed, along with a crude caricature of what those dismissals read like. I may be right, I may be wrong.

Now I'm not exactly sure what an ideology really is. To keep things interesting, I'll not look it up, and be enlightened instead in this forum. I get the impression that ideologies aren't flawless. There is no position, ideological or otherwise which I could hold where I can confidently say, before hearing the arguments against it, that any such arguments are misconceptions of the position.

quote:


It seems this would put one over an epistemic event horizon.

I have a hunch that that is not what you want to do, and though it would be boring of me to speculate as to why you chose that word, could you understand why it doesn't come across as a synonym for "criticisms" or "arguments"?

quote:



Ms. Lastic, who may in real life be the second or third most reasoned head on Earth, laid down the dichotomy of feminist/misogynist.

Could you see how despite your best efforts, these overtures give the impression of a mind tattooed rather than made up? Please note that I don't want to equate your positions/opinions/beliefs/ideologies.

quote:


As you pointed out, it is impossible to be a neutral observer. I contend that this doomed enterprise is forever a worthwhile pursuit.

Yes, the other side is often belligerent, but it's not all tin-foil fashions, slobberguards and claims that feminists faked the moon landing. The most debilitating assumption I could make about myself would be to assume I don't have any assumptions.

Thanks again, crazyml, for taking the time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
The problem with all human beings, male or female is the test comes when they are bigger and stronger, will they be kind? Unfortunately male usually are the physically stronger and bigger one, so there is more female victims than male victims in marriages.

quote:


This cannot possibly be a female specific problem since many men have physically abused their own child as well. This is again, a problem of being bigger and stronger and abusing your powers. And this isn't a gender thing!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
"We should stop putting women in jail.

quote:

I seriously do not believe any sane woman believes in this!

quote:


Every mother will want those lesbian child abusers on an electric chair! Every woman who is not insane! I have never heard any women within my circle ever claim that women are infallible of crimes.

quote:


Not true in my country. Lesbian relationships are often extremely sweet, and they are exaggerated romantic version of the perfect male. I've been chased by lesbians twice in my life and they are seriously super sweet and loving. And would play the role of like a "gentleman", offering to chauffeur you everywhere, offering to pay all the time, buying you gifts, bring you flowers etc. One of them always checked on me when I'm still in office late if I needed dinner and she'll deliver it to me. I always find that, they work harder to make you love them, because they are so afraid to lose you to males. But unfortunately I am straight and it can get quite uncomfortable to turn them down and explain that you're totally straight. But they sure take rejection better than men. No abuse, tantrum, nothing. They will just look sad and try not to bother you again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Funny really. Absolutely against everything that the likes of respectmen and Awareness have so energetically been pumping at us all here, and for so long ... I've never come across a self-professed, female feminist, who's been anything but supportive of me, and who I am, and how I want to carve out my own life. They've all *got it*.

quote:


The reason I'm a feminist isn't primarily because of the feminist theories I've read (and had to read, given what I do). It's because I've liked the real-life feminists I've met. The women I've know who've called themselves feminists have, without exception, been good women; their hearts have been in the right place, and they've not bullshitted me.