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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 7:45:03 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
FR
The obvious answer is for people to just bake their own damned cakes.[/quote]

Now that's progress!


sounds more like bigotry to me.

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 7:53:19 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre


I think the prominence of this issue is an example of a failure to perform moral triage.



Moral triage?????

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 7:54:25 PM   
thompsonx


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your rendition of what im posted is way off the mark. there is no correct "getting upset over a 'luxury'" interpretation in either what gutfeld said, or in how I used it. especially given what I posted as a follow-up to northerngent using the word "comfortable" and "bored" and some people having a lack of political causes.

he (gutfeld) is saying that because we have luxury in life, and don't have to struggle for survival and basic needs or even large and deep matters of humanity, we are able to make issues out of such things.





Why do you think the 14th ammendment is such a trivial thing? It did cost nearly a million amerikan lives.

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 7:55:26 PM   
thompsonx


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my short answer here is people should be allowed to do business with whomever they want, and that on the whole, the marketplace can decide who "will out" so to speak.


Hello college boy....we have already tried that remember?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 8:17:15 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

sounds more like bigotry to me.

Bigotry? Oh no, it's bakery!

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 9:26:29 PM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Greta I am very sorry that you were forced to endure such appalling treatment in my country.

Were you aware that this kind of open discrimination is illegal here?

Tweak, I didn't know it is illegal. But as a yellow skinned person in Australia, such discrimination is very common. People walk up to you and tell you get the fuck out of the country all the time, just by walking on the streets, or taking public transport.

So I am used to it. And I am not offended. Australia is known in Asia for being extremely racist towards especially yellow skinned people, I think because the Vietnamese folks there has gangs that cause alot of problems, so we all look alike and got lumped together. And also, I believed that, because Australia has this culture of everything close after 5pm, and Asians being used to their slave driving hours in their own country, coming in, and working longer hours, things like that, I heard this made some people angry that it's the same problem. Asians coming in and taking away their culture from them. In this case, their working culture.

Because I have enough good Australian friends that have treated me with so much kindness, invited me to their homes, and hosted me so well as well. I love Australia. And when they are nice, they are very nice.

Racism is everywhere, but seriously, this is something, where you can correct their racist impression of you by showing that you are not the person they think you are. And just behave even more kindly towards them. It works better than getting angry or aggressive, even verbal aggression back.

Plus I live in Singapore. I only go there as a tourist once in a while. So definitely not gonna bother. And as a person into bdsm, media attention is the last thing I ever want.




Greta, I am sad to hear that you feel the way you do, though I do understand your reasons for arriving at the position you have. We need people like you to bring these cases if we are to eliminate bigotry from public life here. It really doesn't matter one iota that you are from Singapore. In this instance the law applies equally to all people who are in Australia lawfully no matter what their place of permanent residence may be. When you are in my country it is right and proper that you enjoy all the benefits of any resident or citizen. Moreover the fact that you were a guest in my country makes the crime of discrimination even worse IMHO - people ought to be kinder to foreigners not ruder.

So I would urge you to reconsider your position. It could be very much in your financial interest to do so. If the discriminators refuse to change their policy then you would be in line for substantial financial damages. And you would be striking a welcome blow against bigots and bigotry everywhere. So you would be in a win-win situation and you have nothing to lose except your time.

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 9:43:26 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		Whereabouts was that restaurant Greta ? What town or city ? I don't know of any that would refuse you service in S.E. Qld, or many other places, no matter what your colour or creed and I have worked in hospitality in a lot of places here in Australia. If you have a name for the restaurant and/or even just where it's situated, it can be taken up with the anti-discrimination board, or even ( horror of horrors) with the unions.

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 9:44:38 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
And you would be striking a welcome blow against bigots and bigotry everywhere. So you would be in a win-win situation and you have nothing to lose except your time.

Plenty to lose as I will lose my anonymity. BDSM is my extremely private life. I am not gonna out myself. It would be devastating and humiliation for my family, relatives. I tell you, being into BDSM is completely unacceptable within my family circle. I will bring shame to them. Anything that involves media attention, I would stay out of it.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/12/2016 9:50:37 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 9:50:40 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		You say you were here as a tourist/guest. You weren't attempting to practice BDSM in the restaurant. You went in there as a normal patron, expecting normal service, which you are entitled to. Why would that out you as practicing BDSM ? And if you wanted to retain your anonymity, the law would handle it that way too. Your name or identity need never be mentioned.

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 9:53:08 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

You say you were here as a tourist/guest. You weren't attempting to practice BDSM in the restaurant. You went in there as a normal patron, expecting normal service, which you are entitled to. Why would that out you as practicing BDSM ? And if you wanted to retain your anonymity, the law would handle it that way too. Your name or identity need never be mentioned.

I think you don't understand how this works.

In Singapore we call it CSI, the moment you expose yourself to public media, people start digging shit on you, any stranger who read the news, that has nothing better to do will start doing it. And I don't trust authority to keep me safe, as with the internet, you're never safe, when there is so much data harvesting that I don't understand, not a techie.

I am so paranoid, i am not in facebook, twitter, or any of those mainstream social medias. Same reason I never agreed to meet you. It takes alot to trust someone with my bdsm secrets and my identity. I always feel media has access to internal stuffs in authority. Things could leak. Especially western media where there is freedom of press and no consequences to publish whatever they like.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/12/2016 9:55:54 PM >

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 9:53:08 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

greg gutfeld recently said something very similar and is in part attributing what you've described to our life of luxury. he suggested that an immigrant from Rwanda for instance would find the things we seemingly get upset about, mind boggling.

I'm sure this is just one of countless things that would perplex said immigrant.

Another might be the "War on Christmas" hysteria served up every December by Gutfeld's Fox News colleagues.


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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 9:57:57 PM   
ManOeuvre


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre
I think the prominence of this issue is an example of a failure to perform moral triage.
Moral triage?????

By 'Moral Triage' I mean that in deciding where to focus one's efforts in the enterprise of making the world a more moral place, given the finite time resources available, those resources are best spent:

1. Where they will affect someone's behaviour.
2. This person otherwise will have harmed others.

Have you never run into that expression before? Five question marks seems like a lot.

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 10:00:35 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Whereabouts was that restaurant Greta ? What town or city ? I don't know of any that would refuse you service in S.E. Qld, or many other places, no matter what your colour or creed and I have worked in hospitality in a lot of places here in Australia. If you have a name for the restaurant and/or even just where it's situated, it can be taken up with the anti-discrimination board, or even ( horror of horrors) with the unions.

It was in a suburb in Melbourne. Looks like an upscale suburb though.

It was a 2 hour drive from Melbourne city. But I am terrible with names. I been to Perth like 10 times, and I still can't remember the name of my favourite beach. I know how to take the train there and get there! Same with Singapore, especially with my skating, people ask me for route, and I say I don't know the road names, I only know the route, committed to memory. But don't know what roads I will be skating pass.

The thing is, the restaurant next door treated me perfectly fine. It was just this one, some Italian Pizzeria, I wanted thin crust pizza.

But the thing is, I just don't feel outrage about it, because I guess it's a foreign country to me, and it doesn't bother me if they discriminate against foreigners, because I don't live in it.

And the restaurant next door gave me a normal treatment, and had good service.



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/12/2016 10:05:30 PM >

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 10:04:25 PM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
And you would be striking a welcome blow against bigots and bigotry everywhere. So you would be in a win-win situation and you have nothing to lose except your time.

Plenty to lose as I will lose my anonymity. BDSM is my extremely private life. I am not gonna out myself. It would be devastating and humiliation for my family, relatives. I tell you, being into BDSM is completely unacceptable within my family circle. I will bring shame to them. Anything that involves media attention, I would stay out of it.

Your name will not be made public without your express consent. Lots of complaints are made to Anti-Discrimination Boards here by people who wish to remain anonymous. The anti-Discrimination Boards have lots of experience in dealing with complaints from people who wish (for whatever reason) to keep their name and personal details out of the public sphere. It would not detract from the merits of your complaint an iota. Please check it out at the link I provided earlier if you require any further assurance on this matter.

I see no reason whatsoever why your BDSM interests would be a relevant issue nor do I see any possible way they could become public through an anti-Discrimination complaint. You need have no fears whatsoever on this matter.

If you choose not to proceed that is your choice and I and everyone else must respect that. But please make your choices on the basis of fact, not unreasonable and irrelevant fears that you may mistakenly have.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/12/2016 10:08:26 PM >

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 10:12:49 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		So the big question is, if I sent in the name of the restaurant, and if it happens a few years ago and not recently, do they send an Asian undercover to see how they get treated? How do they handle it? And being turn-over for staff in the restaurant if anything like Singapore, could be high. All the staff on that night look like early twenties people to me. Young folks, but it was pretty like twilight zone, it was a curly hair blonde waitress with a pony tail who ignored me, then a male brunette bartender, I walked up to, to see if he would talk to me, also ignored me. Both look in their early twenties which means, they could just be part timers, or it's just a temporary job. They look like University age.

It could also just be the staff that evening and not a direction of the restaurant owner.

And those staff may no longer be working there.

Now the ones in public transport that goes off at you, are usually older people. They look like older generation.

IF this happened just yesterday or last week, maybe they can get the people involve. But this was a few years ago.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 10:18:37 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		LOL.....................I thought maybe it might have been a certain fish and chip shop in Ipswich, Queensland, a few years back Greta *smile*.................The beach you probably like in Perth, may be Cottesloe. It's a good beach with a fair surf but fairly sheltered.

If you make a claim against somebody like that restaurant here, the only people who will know your name are the police and there would be no profit for them to sell your name to the newspapers, radio or whatever. you would remain anonymous. Tweak is right there. I agree with what she says entirely. I can't understand why any reasonable restaurateur would refuse you service and as for the waitress; if she worked for me, she would be looking for a new job this time tomorrow. A restaurateur and a chef rely more on word of mouth from patrons than any other form of advertising and the service is the second thing the customer notices. First is the décor/ambience. Third is the food. All have to be up to scratch though if the restaurant is any good and is to remain in business.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 10:31:08 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Greta75
So the big question is, if I sent in the name of the restaurant, and if it happens a few years ago and not recently, do they send an Asian undercover to see how they get treated? How do they handle it? And being turn-over for staff in the restaurant if anything like Singapore, could be high. All the staff on that night look like early twenties people to me. Young folks, but it was pretty like twilight zone, it was a curly hair blonde waitress with a pony tail who ignored me, then a male brunette bartender, I walked up to, to see if he would talk to me, also ignored me. Both look in their early twenties which means, they could just be part timers, or it's just a temporary job. They look like University age.

It could also just be the staff that evening and not a direction of the restaurant owner.

And those staff may no longer be working there.

Now the ones in public transport that goes off at you, are usually older people. They look like older generation.

IF this happened just yesterday or last week, maybe they can get the people involve. But this was a few years ago.

In law it doesn't matter if the owner or an employee discriminated against you, the business is liable in either case. The time lapse may complicate matters but you really need to contact the relevant Anti-Discrimination Board to clarify that.

A complaint is initiated by the offended party (ie. you) lodging a written complaint with the relevant Anti-Discrimination Board (ADB).

The ADB investigates the complaint and then, if the complaint has merit, calls a conciliation meeting between the two parties. Presuming the other party denies your version of events, the ADB seeks to resolve the matter by agreement between the parties. If this fails, then the ADB makes a judgement based on its assessment of the facts. It can impose substantial penalties and order compensation be paid to the offended party.

The process is a bureaucratic one and can take a bit of time. But every complaint is investigated. Lots of complaints are lodged every year and most are resolved in favour of the offended party. You will find more information at the link I provided earlier or at the Victorian Anti-Discrimination Board's website at:
http://www.humanrightscommission.vic.gov.au/index.php/about-us/contact-us

With regard to public transport, there have been a few cases of people racially abusing others on buses caught on CCTV here in Sydney recently. They have faced criminal charges and were convicted. So if this happens to you again, make a complaint to the bus driver immediately and report the matter to the police. If the bigots are convicted, then you will be entitled to compensation under the criminal compensation scheme (that is if the court fails to award you damages, which it could very well do).

Please be very clear that we want to eliminate this type of appalling behaviour completely so you will receive every encouragement to pursue your complaint.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/12/2016 10:48:08 PM >

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 10:49:21 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		It happened a few years ago, and I didn't even take note the name of the restaurant. And after the incident happened, because I just walked next door and had a great meal anyway, although it wasn't pizza, and was treated good, it didn't ruin my night, I didn't go back and take note of the name of the restaurant who discriminated or anything. What made me walk in there was I saw a wood fire oven for pizza! And that's it! I was with my lil bro then and we both just wanted some really good pizzas! So it was a classy looking Italian restaurant, some suburb in melbourne that I don't even remember the name. With a wood fire oven. Not gonna be much help in identifying it.

Every where has got good and bad. While US are villianising their cop. Another memorable thing there was, my brother drop his phone in that exact same town the restaurant was in somewhere. The crazy thing is, when we called his phone, a cop picked up and said someone brought the phone to the police station in that town. So by then, we were back in melbourne city. And the cop actually drove 2 hours to deliver the phone back to my brother. He was so kind. But he claims it's no big deal as it was on the way, he had a job to do in the city anyway.

This was exactly why, I was quite nonchalance about the restaurant incident.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/12/2016 10:51:38 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 10:55:47 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		It sounds like it happened in a small country town near Melbourne. Perhaps your brother remembers the name. If not, it shouldn't be too difficult to find out where the offence occurred, if you really want to.

It's very good that you were with your brother as he can act as a witness confirming your version of events. This will strengthen your case immeasurably.

Thank you for considering the matter again. I hope you can lodge a successful complaint and pursue it to the fullest extent. Please remember that almost all Australians will support you in a case of overt vicious racial discrimination such as yours. We do NOT want such shocking behaviour in our country. Good luck!

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/12/2016 10:58:31 PM >

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/12/2016 11:12:45 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

LOL.....................I thought maybe it might have been a certain fish and chip shop in Ipswich, Queensland, a few years back Greta *smile*.................The beach you probably like in Perth, may be Cottesloe. It's a good beach with a fair surf but fairly sheltered.


That's the name! That's a damn difficult name to remember! People always ask me is it frementle and I say nooo, it's another beach! Singapore has such horrible murky water beaches, cottesloe being a crystal clear water public beach with so much happy sea life near to shore was so amazing to me. My must snorkel place every time I go Perth!

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
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