That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination?

That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (Full Version)

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Wayward5oul -> That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/11/2016 8:16:25 PM)
Baker takes order for BIRTHDAY cake. Baker than looks up client's facebook page, and finds that she is in a same-sex marriage. Baker then texts her canceling the cake order, citing a refusal of services to same-sex couples. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ohio-bakery-gay-couple-cake_us_577eb60ae4b01edea78d1e2a

BamaD -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/11/2016 8:20:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Baker takes order for BIRTHDAY cake. Baker than looks up client's facebook page, and finds that she is in a same-sex marriage. Baker then texts her canceling the cake order, citing a refusal of services to same-sex couples. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ohio-bakery-gay-couple-cake_us_577eb60ae4b01edea78d1e2a This looks like what the Oregon bakers were accused of. In Oregon they didn't want to be part of a same sex wedding. That is their right. With this they seem to be refusing to deal with them for a reason that has nothing to do with what is asked of the baker.

MrRodgers -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/11/2016 8:21:33 PM)
Both. The religious taking the liberty...to discriminate.

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 12:44:59 AM)
ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Baker takes order for BIRTHDAY cake. Baker than looks up client's facebook page, and finds that she is in a same-sex marriage. Baker then texts her canceling the cake order, citing a refusal of services to same-sex couples. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ohio-bakery-gay-couple-cake_us_577eb60ae4b01edea78d1e2a Sue the punk.

Greta75 -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 12:55:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Baker takes order for BIRTHDAY cake. Baker than looks up client's facebook page, and finds that she is in a same-sex marriage. Baker then texts her canceling the cake order, citing a refusal of services to same-sex couples. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ohio-bakery-gay-couple-cake_us_577eb60ae4b01edea78d1e2a Personally, as a person on the receiving end of discrimination. It's not uncommon in Australia, for a restaurant to REFUSE to serve you because you are Chinese. You can talk the waitress, they will ignore you like you are invisible. You can walk up to them to talk to them, they will just treat you like you are invisible and just pretend you don't exist and just talk to the white customers and get them seated. This is a very empty restaurant by the way, very well staffed, so it was very obvious. Especially the way they greeted the white customers and got them seated immediately. As a receiving end of this. I just gave up, and walked to the next restaurant who is willing to sit me in their restaurant and order from them. Their loss. I don't see any problem. Gay people could set up gay only cake shop if they want, and take all the gay business and non-Gay business to compete with this cake shop who decided they don't need gay business. It's a business opportunity.

DesideriScuri -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 1:13:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Baker takes order for BIRTHDAY cake. Baker than looks up client's facebook page, and finds that she is in a same-sex marriage. Baker then texts her canceling the cake order, citing a refusal of services to same-sex couples. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ohio-bakery-gay-couple-cake_us_577eb60ae4b01edea78d1e2a This is discrimination. There can be no other analysis. Here's the address of the place: 445 Irving St, Toledo, OH 43620 There is no website. Google map it. It's run out of a duplex. Who would do business with a business being run out of a person's house without knowing the person? I looked through the first 3 pages of "reviews" on yelp, and there were only 4 that were from locations close to Toledo (2 in Toledo, 2 in Bowling Green). The BG "reviews" were comments on the discrimination pointed out in the OP. The two reviews from Toledo were actual reviews, and pointed out that the cakes neither tasted good, nor were decorated by someone with talent. Other "reviews" were from no closer than an hour away, and some were from California and Florida. How does a "business" do business with people from over a thousand miles away without a website? The Oregon bakery didn't want to take part in a same sex wedding celebration. That is completely different from a birthday cake for a person in a same sex marriage. It's not part of the celebration of the same sex marriage. It's discrimination.

tweakabelle -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 1:54:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Personally, as a person on the receiving end of discrimination. It's not uncommon in Australia, for a restaurant to REFUSE to serve you because you are Chinese. You can talk the waitress, they will ignore you like you are invisible. You can walk up to them to talk to them, they will just treat you like you are invisible and just pretend you don't exist and just talk to the white customers and get them seated. This is a very empty restaurant by the way, very well staffed, so it was very obvious. Especially the way they greeted the white customers and got them seated immediately. Greta I am very sorry that you were forced to endure such appalling treatment in my country. Were you aware that this kind of open discrimination is illegal here? You have good grounds for making a discrimination case against the restaurant and I urge you to do so. Blatant discrimination like this is intolerable and should be opposed every time it rears its ugly head. A case of discrimination as blatant as the one you have outlined would receive front page treatment in the media and send the message out that discrimination is not going to be tolerated on any grounds. So please have a think about this and if you can please take action against the bigots. You will have the support of the overwhelming majority of Australians, who cannot abide bigots of any hue. This link will provide a useful first port of call: https://www.humanrights.gov.au/contact-us-0 Please feel free to PM me if you wish to discuss it in more detail.

Greta75 -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 2:14:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Greta I am very sorry that you were forced to endure such appalling treatment in my country. Were you aware that this kind of open discrimination is illegal here? Tweak, I didn't know it is illegal. But as a yellow skinned person in Australia, such discrimination is very common. People walk up to you and tell you get the fuck out of the country all the time, just by walking on the streets, or taking public transport. So I am used to it. And I am not offended. Australia is known in Asia for being extremely racist towards especially yellow skinned people, I think because the Vietnamese folks there has gangs that cause alot of problems, so we all look alike and got lumped together. And also, I believed that, because Australia has this culture of everything close after 5pm, and Asians being used to their slave driving hours in their own country, coming in, and working longer hours, things like that, I heard this made some people angry that it's the same problem. Asians coming in and taking away their culture from them. In this case, their working culture. Because I have enough good Australian friends that have treated me with so much kindness, invited me to their homes, and hosted me so well as well. I love Australia. And when they are nice, they are very nice. Racism is everywhere, but seriously, this is something, where you can correct their racist impression of you by showing that you are not the person they think you are. And just behave even more kindly towards them. It works better than getting angry or aggressive, even verbal aggression back. Plus I live in Singapore. I only go there as a tourist once in a while. So definitely not gonna bother. And as a person into bdsm, media attention is the last thing I ever want.

crazyml -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 2:20:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Baker takes order for BIRTHDAY cake. Baker than looks up client's facebook page, and finds that she is in a same-sex marriage. Baker then texts her canceling the cake order, citing a refusal of services to same-sex couples. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ohio-bakery-gay-couple-cake_us_577eb60ae4b01edea78d1e2a This looks like what the Oregon bakers were accused of. In Oregon they didn't want to be part of a same sex wedding. That is their right. Except that, as a matter of law, it's not their right. They don't have a blanket right to discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs. It would be unconstitutional to grant them a right to discriminate on the grounds of religion. And.... with the best will in the world the argument that baking a cake means participating in the wedding is a very long shot. quote: With this they seem to be refusing to deal with them for a reason that has nothing to do with what is asked of the baker.

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 4:26:55 AM)
ORIGINAL: Greta75 Tweak, I didn't know it is illegal. But as a yellow skinned person in Australia, such discrimination is very common. People walk up to you and tell you get the fuck out of the country all the time, just by walking on the streets, or taking public transport. So I am used to it. And I am not offended. Australia is known in Asia for being extremely racist towards especially yellow skinned people, I think because the Vietnamese folks there has gangs that cause alot of problems, so we all look alike and got lumped together. And also, I believed that, because Australia has this culture of everything close after 5pm, and Asians being used to their slave driving hours in their own country, coming in, and working longer hours, things like that, I heard this made some people angry that it's the same problem. Asians coming in and taking away their culture from them. In this case, their working culture. Because I have enough good Australian friends that have treated me with so much kindness, invited me to their homes, and hosted me so well as well. I love Australia. And when they are nice, they are very nice. Racism is everywhere, but seriously, this is something, where you can correct their racist impression of you by showing that you are not the person they think you are. And just behave even more kindly towards them. It works better than getting angry or aggressive, even verbal aggression back. Plus I live in Singapore. I only go there as a tourist once in a while. So definitely not gonna bother. And as a person into bdsm, media attention is the last thing I ever want. You have told us many times of how you as an asian person have been discriminated against and how you never let it bother you because you are such an evolved person or some such shit. Do you feel that everyone who suffers from discrimination should just accept it like you do or should they follow their own conscience? You seem to be saying that because you choose to accept racism everyone else should also.

WickedsDesire -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 6:43:34 AM)
There is no more noble a quest in life than chocolate cake with 3 scoops of vanilla-see its good for something hehe ice cream, save a good scone recipe - come one someone on the internet must have one for me after all these years. Not one, and I have been around forever - some say too long & get more cats muffin man. That happens over here,occasionally, with cake and guest houses and all manner of other thingies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_Kingdom 2014 not particularly evolved as i, wicked, often claim But let us deconstruct it to fundamentals like: what is free speech. free will And that's before you play the religion card

Greta75 -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 6:54:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx You have told us many times of how you as an asian person have been discriminated against and how you never let it bother you because you are such an evolved person or some such shit. Do you feel that everyone who suffers from discrimination should just accept it like you do or should they follow their own conscience? You seem to be saying that because you choose to accept racism everyone else should also. I am saying that the solution to stop racism and convert a racist is not screaming at them, that they are racist, and pitch forks at them. I know that will make them hate you more! So your solution does not work. It just silence their honesty maybe. But it doesn't change how they feel about you inside. That's all. I just want results. I know what works, from my own personal experience in converting people who hate Chinese people. And it's not just white people. I experience racism from Filipinos too. Some of them seriously hate Chinese Singaporeans to death! Because they have been treated badly by some, so I understand. And I can take the heat, but usually I can fix it. Why does a person hate a certain race? I always want to find out why someone hates me? And what they have against my colour first. I need to know the specific reason or stereotype that cause this hatred. Then I can address it. That's usually how i deal with it. I mean, you need to know the reason. People don't hate for no reason. Usually it's a stereotype problem. If it's just, I just don't like the colour of your skin, it offends me, then pretty much, that person just finds your colour offensive to their sight? Not much to do about that. Just ignore that person. But if there are valid reasons, as in, stereotypes can be true sometimes. I mean, chinese tourists are hated because of crazy behaviours like even pooping in public places. Understandably, if they mistake me as a person who does that sort of thing, they might dislike me too. Gotta get to the core.

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 9:21:42 AM)
ORIGINAL: Greta75 ORIGINAL: thompsonx You have told us many times of how you as an asian person have been discriminated against and how you never let it bother you because you are such an evolved person or some such shit. Do you feel that everyone who suffers from discrimination should just accept it like you do or should they follow their own conscience? You seem to be saying that because you choose to accept racism everyone else should also. I am saying that the solution to stop racism and convert a racist is not screaming at them, that they are racist, and pitch forks at them. I know that will make them hate you more! So your solution does not work. I have not offered a solution dumbass.

CreativeDominant -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 10:28:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Baker takes order for BIRTHDAY cake. Baker than looks up client's facebook page, and finds that she is in a same-sex marriage. Baker then texts her canceling the cake order, citing a refusal of services to same-sex couples. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ohio-bakery-gay-couple-cake_us_577eb60ae4b01edea78d1e2a There's no other way for this instance to be seen other than discrimination. Report it. Move on.

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 10:56:44 AM)
ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant There's no other way for this instance to be seen other than discrimination. Report it. Move on. Remember the old b/w frankinstien movie where the local town folk come to visit the good doctor and ask if they can be of any assitance (with their pitchforks and syths)???Imagine waking up to that????[:D]

Awareness -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 10:58:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Baker takes order for BIRTHDAY cake. Baker than looks up client's facebook page, and finds that she is in a same-sex marriage. Baker then texts her canceling the cake order, citing a refusal of services to same-sex couples. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ohio-bakery-gay-couple-cake_us_577eb60ae4b01edea78d1e2a Entirely within their rights to do so. They don't provide an essential service and there's no legal basis for compelling them to engage with people whose lifestyle they do not support.

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 11:05:03 AM)
ORIGINAL: Awareness Entirely within their rights to do so. They don't provide an essential service and there's no legal basis for compelling them to engage with people whose lifestyle they do not support. I have heard that there are some lawyers who make a pretty good living litigating aptness of the equal protection clause of the 14th ammendment to the constitution of the united states of amerika to cases such as this. Rather ironic that you were not 'aware' of that.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 11:05:27 AM)
I'll buy the religious liberty shit when Rastafarians can smoke pot and Mormons and Muslims can have multiple wives.

Awareness -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 11:07:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Except that, as a matter of law, it's not their right. They don't have a blanket right to discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs. It would be unconstitutional to grant them a right to discriminate on the grounds of religion. As usual, you do not know what the fuck you are talking about. The first amendment prohibits congress from establishing a state religion or making a law preventing the free exercise of religion. It does not in any way prohibit individuals from exercising their religious liberty and in fact prohibits the state from imposing on that religious liberty. As has been shown, Islamic bakeries and florists are refusing gay clients and no-one's attempting to shove gay clients down their throat - apparently it's only important that Christian businesses be forced to endure dealing with gay people. Now, of course, cultural libertarians know why this is. Muslims are higher on the victim-hood totem pole than gay people are, so that's why they can get away with it... but Christians.... well, tsk tsk.... religious liberty is only for victims, not for oppressors, amirite? Baking is not an essential service. There's no ethical justification for imposing upon the religious liberty of Christians - it's just something the left is awfully fond of doing and is unconstitutional as fuck. Unfortunately, you're too stupid to understand that. So I don't expect anything beyond idiocy from you on this - or indeed any other - point. But let's not pretend you're anything other than a piss-weak Christian-hating shithead with all the ethical consistency of Chunky Custard. (Contains no Yak Fat).

Awareness -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/12/2016 11:10:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: Awareness Entirely within their rights to do so. They don't provide an essential service and there's no legal basis for compelling them to engage with people whose lifestyle they do not support. I have heard that there are some lawyers who make a pretty good living litigating aptness of the equal protection clause of the 14th ammendment to the constitution of the united states of amerika to cases such as this. Rather ironic that you were not 'aware' of that. That people encourage and profit from lawlessness is unsurprising. Lawyers profit from doubt, uncertainty and fear. That doesn't make them right, it merely makes them unconscionable scumbags.

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