RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination?

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (Full Version)

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itsSIRtou -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/17/2016 8:40:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler So Awareness, Mormons believe that people were cut off from the Lords presence and were cursed with a "skin of darkness" (Nephi 5:20-22). It's not a far leap from there to putting up "Whites Only" on store fronts. Or maybe a religion where women are allowed literature but not math, so they don't have to hire females in certain traditionally male sectors? Where does it end? I would like to see the day come when people finally realize that there is a difference between believing in God and believing in a book. K. and a book that's been edited several times from its 1st writing..... christians have the King James VERISION now...

SunDominant -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/17/2016 11:42:45 PM)
quote: thompsonx 1. Elaborate on the former. The civil war 2. As to the latter, The equal protection clause of the 14th ammendment. Much better, the points you were making are now clear. Though no expert, I have read quite a bit over the years on the pretexts to the Civil War, including perspectives from both sides, and do not see how that connects to a small business having the choice in who they will serve and who they will not. Are you saying that denial of service is the same as human enslavement, or is there an economic parallel here? The fourteenth amendment guarantees equal protection under the law, not in private economic exchanges (or lack thereof). If this were a case of a governmental agency, I would agree that the fourteenth amendment applies, but this a private business. Such a thing means little to SCOTUS however, especially in light of the very broad use of the "Commerce Clause" in rulings over the last century. Are you aware of a standing ruling that applies the fourteenth amendment to such a case?

Greta75 -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/17/2016 11:59:40 PM)
FR Dunno if this is still true in 2016, but here just in 2015, it says there are still 28 states where it's legal to fire someone for being gay. https://mic.com/articles/121496/one-map-shows-where-you-can-still-be-fired-for-being-gay-in-2015#.DGX1Qi6jN In light of this, this cake shop isn't the biggest issue here!

Awareness -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/18/2016 8:16:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire I only came on this thread because it said cake demands his cake I feel it incumbent upon me to inform you that the cake is, indeed, a lie.

SunDominant -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/18/2016 11:52:30 AM)
Most likely these are "Right to Work" states where it is not LGBT people being singled out, but that any person can be terminated for any or no reason, and an individual can quit a company for any or no reason. This does leave the door wide open for discrimination by the employer or employee. I gravitate toward Right to Work for a couple of reasons: first it defaults toward choice and accountability, and secondly the businesses and individuals who are discriminatory are quickly outed for all the world to see.

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/19/2016 8:44:22 PM)
ORIGINAL: SunDominant thompsonx 1. Elaborate on the former. The civil war 2. As to the latter, The equal protection clause of the 14th ammendment. Much better, the points you were making are now clear. Why don't you take your condescending attitude and stick it up your ass.[:D] Though no expert, I have read quite a bit over the years on the pretexts to the Civil War, Pretext????how droll. Perhaps you might get a clue as to the "pretext" by reading the articles of sucsession from the various states. They are pretty clear as to their "issues" including perspectives from both sides, Would you expect them to be similar? and do not see how that connects to a small business having the choice in who they will serve and who they will not. Can you see that it connects to the 12,13,14 ammedments to the constitution? Are you saying that denial of service is the same as human enslavement, or is there an economic parallel here? No. The fourteenth amendment guarantees equal protection under the law, not in private economic exchanges (or lack thereof). Hasn't the court ruled otherwise If this were a case of a governmental agency, I would agree that the fourteenth amendment applies, but this a private business. You are mistaken. It is a public business as it is open to the public and is licensed by the state. Such a thing means little to SCOTUS however, especially in light of the very broad use of the "Commerce Clause" in rulings over the last century. Either you believe that the court is valid or you do not. If you do not feel the court is valid why do you live here. If you believe the court is valid then abide by the law and don't try to find ways to evade it. Are you aware of a standing ruling that applies the fourteenth amendment to such a case? If you are not aware of the controling decissions in this issue then why are you wasting bandwidth and my time? If you wish to discuss this please do not be obtuse or disingenuous. You claim above that you are knowlegible of the courts "broad use of the commerce clause" and yet feign ignorance of the governing decissions concerning this issue.[8\|]

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/19/2016 8:53:33 PM)
ORIGINAL: Greta75 FR Dunno if this is still true in 2016, but here just in 2015, it says there are still 28 states where it's legal to fire someone for being gay. https://mic.com/articles/121496/one-map-shows-where-you-can-still-be-fired-for-being-gay-in-2015#.DGX1Qi6jN In light of this, this cake shop isn't the biggest issue here! Actually the biggest issue here is your ignorance. In my country any dip-shit politician can propose a law and if they have enough pull get it passed. If the law is unconstitutional someone convicted under it would then have to appeal their conviction to a higher court which would eventually say the law is unconstitutional. We saw on another thread where some local politicians thought they would make some guns illegal and when some one challanged it at the appellate level the law was overturned. Same with the anti gay states. When some "activist" decides it is worth the effort to 'buy a cake' in that state then the courts will strike down the anti gay statute. Why has it not happened yet???It cost a butt load of money to go to court so one had best bring their cheque book and their lunch.

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/19/2016 8:57:11 PM)
ORIGINAL: SunDominant Most likely these are "Right to Work" states where it is not LGBT people being singled out, but that any person can be terminated for any or no reason, and an individual can quit a company for any or no reason. This does leave the door wide open for discrimination by the employer or employee. How would the employee discriminate against the employer? I gravitate toward Right to Work for a couple of reasons: first it defaults toward choice and accountability, Just above you say it allows you to discriminate against your employee? and secondly the businesses and individuals who are discriminatory are quickly outed for all the world to see. When has this happened in your lifetime?

Termyn8or -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/19/2016 9:09:11 PM)
"How would the employee discriminate against the employer? " I have, and do. T^T

SunDominant -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/19/2016 9:21:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx {Insert insults and emotional rhetoric here.} Amazing. Welcome to ignore.

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/19/2016 9:35:44 PM)
ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "How would the employee discriminate against the employer? " I have, and do. Just what do you do????inquiring minds want to know?

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/19/2016 9:38:51 PM)
ORIGINAL: SunDominant Amazing. Welcome to ignore. Ignorance seems to fit you like skin.

Termyn8or -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/20/2016 1:48:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "How would the employee discriminate against the employer? " I have, and do. Just what do you do????inquiring minds want to know? About ten years ago I was one of the best electronics techs in the state. I have had many jobs, never had a problem getting one and never got fired from an electronics job. Though I support their rights and everything, because of my experience I have prejudice. I will not work for Blacks, Jews or Women. If you think my knuckles are dragging on the ground think again. One place gave me a test and I rewrote it. I beat 154 applicants for that job. And then after eight months decided to quit, and had another job practically immediately. In fact I already had the new job when I went to pick up my last paycheck, and it paid more. In every other respect I treat everyone equal, but who I get in bed with or work for is subject to my personal approval. And from my experience I have excluded certain groups from my potential pool of employers. Maybe I a stupid for doing so but I do not believe so. I have had experience with all three and I do not want to work for any of them. You want the stories ? You got the time ? T^T

Greta75 -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/20/2016 3:03:24 AM)
BTW, how can you possibly tell if someone is a jew or not? There is no way I would know Bernie is a jew from physical appearance.

thompsonx -> RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination? (7/20/2016 1:34:00 PM)
ORIGINAL: Greta75 BTW, how can you possibly tell if someone is a jew or not? Have you thought about asking?

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