RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT

RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (Full Version)

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Nnanji -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/19/2016 8:27:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird There was this thing called The Second Amendment that was in the original rules of the old government. This was considered very holy and very sacred by a minor part of the people Your fantasies don't have much connection with reality. Majority Say More Concealed Weapons Would Make U.S. Safer ~Gallup K. an opinion poll about feelings, I think if my dick was twice as large most girls would want to suck it more. I get it, and rather self-referential for good or bad, but short of the mark somehow. And you picked Kirata's dick link poll instead of Vincent's by chance and not because the nutsuckers whispering to you said so?

BamaD -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/19/2016 8:43:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Really, I'd like to see either a link or know your credentials for making that statement. Having been around groups of people with guns a lot, for a large portion of my life, my experience has been the opposite. It's just like working in a machine shop with lots of people operating lots of potentially very damaging machines. People tend to feel the weight and responsibility of it and take special care. I'd like to know your stats or experience with this that shows my, literally, thousands of experiences as the exception to your rule. Nnanji! The issue based on the foggy information we have is not the thousands of responsible gun owners who are exceptions to "my rule." The issue is Lovell's actions which seem to be the exception to the expectation of your gun owner buddies. Lovell could have fired at the top of the door or at the bottom. But no, he fired straight on at the kill zone. Man with a gun in his hand. I don't need statistics or experience imagining the power he must have felt. A knowledge of human psychology will suffice. How many of the thousands of gun owners you know were ever in Lovell's position and refrained from firing? I'd like to know your stats on how many refrained from pulling the trigger. How many times have you witnessed the same situation? What are your credentials? What is the deep store of knowledge of human psychology that permits you to give a free pass to all gun owners? What is your vast store of knowledge of human psychology...and objectivity...that allows you to characterize ANYONE as a delusional hero? Not trying to be an ass, but he once told me he was a believer in liberation theology. It a mixture of socialism and, I'm not sure in his case, catholic faith. In my mind, with no disrespect to him, it's a delusional faith and he projects that delusion. The catholic priests in South America that picked up that branch of the faith did some good things for the poor. If your memory is correct that explains a lot of things. I used to work with a guy like that, he thought everything but the common cold was a white mans plot against blacks, and he suspected that.

Edwird -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/19/2016 8:58:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird There was this thing called The Second Amendment that was in the original rules of the old government. This was considered very holy and very sacred by a minor part of the people Your fantasies don't have much connection with reality. Majority Say More Concealed Weapons Would Make U.S. Safer ~Gallup K. Stupid move trying to dump that crap on someone who's actually taken a statistics class. Second or third example the professor presented to the class on "how to sample badly" was phone surveys. A multitude of things in phone surveys militate against being 'good sampling' but top among these is reverse self selection . Only those willing to respond are surveyed, so that eliminates the sample being representative of the populace to start with. Most people nowadays do not answer an unfamiliar number, using voice mail as a filter for legitimate calls, as from the dentist or the library. It is unlikely that those willing to listen to phone solicitations are representative of the population. Even in the old days before caller ID and message machines, most people politely said "No thanks." https://www.ma.utexas.edu/users/mks/statmistakes/biasedsampling.html -The following example shows how a sample can be biased, even though there is some randomness in the selection of the sample. Example: Telephone sampling is common in marketing surveys. A simple random sample may be chosen from the sampling frame consisting of a list of telephone numbers of people in the area being surveyed. This method does involve taking a simple random sample, but it is not a simple random sample of the target population (consumers in the area being surveyed.) It will miss people who do not have a phone. It will also miss people who do not wish to be surveyed, including those who monitor calls on an answering machine and don't answer those from telephone surveyors. Thus the method systematically excludes certain types of consumers in the area. Inferences from a biased sample are not as trustworthy as conclusions from a truly random sample.- https://www.surveypolice.com/blog/differentiating-between-good-and-bad-samples/ "Bad Samples: Voluntary Response Samples – sample has choice to respond to survey or not." People who volunteer to answer phone surveys are likely to feel more strongly about the subject than others in the population. Since only a relatively few are willing to go through that process, again we cannot say that the sample is representative. As pointed out above, no matter how properly random the method with which phone numbers were chosen, it is very much NOT a random sample of the population as a whole due to these inherent sampling biases. The Gallup poll tells us that 56% of people who don't screen calls, answer phone solicitations, and feel more strongly about things than most people said (in response to a misleading question, no less) that they think the US would be safer with more concealed carry. That's all. Phone surveys are statistical fantasy.

CreativeDominant -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/19/2016 8:59:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaska quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: Chaska quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: Chaska quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers But you see, this is the legacy of an American 'tradition' This is the 'American culture' where the 2nd amend. is the enabler. I have a right to own guns. I have a right to defend my home. I have a right to call the police. I have a right to shoot to kill and even before the police arrive. Another attempt to trash all gun owners because one person screwed up. And other than me not one word about underage drinking which set the situation up. Not true. I brought it up in my post that you responded to. I said they were irresponsible for drinking. But that doesn't equal a death sentence. Sorry, I missed that. I apologize. And again I have stated two or three times that none of this gives the home owner a pass. We have two serious problems independant of each other. Underage drinking leads to a lot of deaths. And this guy screwed up big time. Neither is negated in any way by the other. The kid would be alive if he hadn't been drunk. The kid would be alive if the homeowner hadn't screwed up. I disagree, Kids do stupid shit, like knocking on doors when they are not drinking just for kicks, not to mention adults that mistakenly knock on the wrong door. This kid is dead because of this homeowner's pure unadulterated stupidly. And it's what? Homeowners' jobs to understand and coddle stupid shit from kids whose parents can't be responsible for teaching their spawn respect? I wasn't an angel but I had better ways to blow off steam than running around knocking on people's doors...breaking their glass. This gun owner made a mistake for damn sure...but so did the kids. The homeowner is an adult with a gun, it's his responsibly to understand the law, threat assessment and act accordingly . I don't believe in coddling kids or adults when it comes to disrespect, but don't see the need to shoot them for it. I have had kids knock on my door and did not find it amusing in the least, it was an nuisance. They posed no threat, so nothing more than a verbal reprimand was warranted and they didn't do it again. If their parents are so irresponsible that they don't teach them respect, it's not the kid's fault they are idiots. So someone needs to man up and correct their behavior hopefully they will learn from it or give them something to think about the next time. In this case, the homeowner was safe in his house, the police were on the way, there was no need for deadly force. I'm truly bewilder that some are such wuss's they can't handle a minor confrontation or any confrontation with pertinence. Note: You cannot fix stupidity, there is no cure, while some would like to eradicate it form this world it's not an executable offense. Yes...he's an adult with a gun. He has responsibilities both as an adult and as a gun owner. Did he screw up on those responsibilities? He did...as I noted earlier. But who screwed up first? The 15 Year old. Getting drunk (illegal), mistaking his location (not illegal but certainly helped along by the illegally consumed substance), harassing the owner of the property when he'd been asked to leave (illegal), damaging the property of the homeowner (illegal). Did his mistakes make him eligible to die? No. Do his actions and choices make him at least partially responsible for his death? Yes. If we can hold 15 Year olds responsible for causing death when a weapon is in their hands, we can certainly make them at least partially responsible when their actions lead them to their own deaths, even when that death comes at the hands of someone who should have chosen a more responsible path. Have you ever killed someone or had to? I've been in war and have, it ain't pretty. Ever had you bother in arms shoot right next to you blood shooting out of his body, cover in his and your blood while trying to stop the bleeding until medics get there? I ain't no hero, my PTSD mercury switch is about to short- circuit. and I am not about to go on with more gore. Have you ever lost a child? My 41 year old daughter had here fucking brains blowout by a fukwit igit, now her 13 year old son doesn't have a mother, I'll never be able to hold her again to tell how much I love her. Not to mention family, friends or anything else. Have I thought about blowing the motherfucker away hell YES, preferable I would like to see him suffer until his last drop of blood and last breath leave his pathetic corpse but, this is up to the court of law. Nuff said, I'm about to go thermonuclear. Note: This did not make national news it was just a small article in the back of the local paper where she was at the time. Who screwed up first? Are you frickin serious? That's akin to, who/he started it first? What kind of rationale is that? Sounds like the immature reasoning of, he hit me first. This ain't no kids game, It's serious shit this boy is dead as a doornail. I've not negated his was drunk and broke a window accidentally or deliberately. His actions are matter of law and for them to decided the appropriate punishment if any, not the homeowner to be judge, jury and executioner. Not to mention the fact they were outside with no way of determining they were drunk while he is safe in his damn house or if window was purposely broken. They were of no threat to him or able to cause him any harm from outside the house, It was not as if they had guns blazing through his door or house. I've had numerous encounters throughout life that did not require shooting anyone under more stressful conditions and much more dangers circumstances and did not have to shoot anyone. All of this kind of shit is pure insanity and all anyone wants to do is debate more guns, less guns, no guns or all the other horseshit. Instead of looking at the root cause, solutions and doing something about it This includes all the people up to the president, all the damn politicians do is put on a dog an pony show then rinse and repeat. Just read the forum here same shit here rinse and repeat. Is everyone so ate up the dumb-ass that don't see what the fuck is going on and just want to piss and moan about this or that stupid shit. Wake the fuck up people it ain't gonna get no better until we come together as one and do something about this madness. I honestly would like to hear some answers about, how or what we can change or do about the morally bankrupt people with no regard for human life in this or any other society until something is done it will remain the status quo, off my soapbox. . Boo fuckin' hoo. Thank you for your service, sorry for your losses. No...never had to kill anybody. Got to the 82ND as things were winding down in Vietnam. Can't say I personally know the horrors of war except learning from others in my family...closer to his age...of what my dad fought through in WW II and after to become the fine doctor he was. What my uncle went through to become the fine father, husband and man he was. I did my tour, made my jumps, got shot at in Panama, and got out as an Operations Sgt for my company. Never lost a child. Lost a cousin to a robbery, lost my only brother in a wreck so horrific this past September that they wouldn't let me...a doctor...see his body. Lost my nephew to suicide by hanging. Had to deal...and still do...with a daughter who was molested by her uncle on her mom's side. And none of your past...or mine...or anybody else's changes the fact that a teenage boy died. Not does it change the majority responsibility of the gun owner who shot him. But...neither does it change the stupidity of the boy and his friend. You want to stop the gore? Good luck on an overall stage...it's the world you're up against. But on a smaller level? Try local. I was working with abused kids when my kids were small. The molestation of my own daughter led me deeper. But it's my small corner of the world I help. There are others who deal at a larger level that I contribute too but I don't have time or the means to do more. Nut I help my corner of the world. The things that helps me? The realization that it's not ever just one thing that needs to be stopped. Gun violence bothers you? Do something. Go be someone who works at solutions to gangs. Tired of suicide. Be a counselor. To sit and rail about the "evil gun", gnash your teeth over the irresponsibility of the easiest-chosen "fault-holder" without consideration of all involved, is useless and easy. Sorry...I'm a look at all things kind of guy. That's why I don't think every woman seeking an abortion bears the responsibility solely on her shoulders. There's a complex set of responsibilities in play. But...except in cases of rape or incest...she does bear some responsibility. That opinion isn't popular...I don't care. It's true. The SAME is true in this case of the dead 15 Year old. Don't like that? Tough. It is what it is. Tired of the gore? Then do something or take yourself off to that mythical deserted isle.

Edwird -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/19/2016 9:06:29 PM)
http://www.pollingreport.com/sampling.htm Humphrey Taylor is the Chairman of Louis Harris & Associates, Inc. This article appeared in the May 4, 1998, edition of The Polling Report. Myth and Reality in Reporting Sampling Error How the Media Confuse and Mislead Readers and Viewers by Humphrey Taylor On almost every occasion when we release a new survey, someone in the media will ask, "What is the margin of error for this survey?" There is only one honest and accurate answer to this question -- which I sometimes use to the great confusion of my audience -- and that is, "The possible margin of error is infinite."

Kirata -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/19/2016 9:59:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird On almost every occasion when we release a new survey, someone in the media will ask, "What is the margin of error for this survey?" There is only one honest and accurate answer to this question -- which I sometimes use to the great confusion of my audience -- and that is, "The possible margin of error is infinite." Interestingly enough, there's a lot of truth to that in social experiments too. To take a case in point, were the subjects in the study that VML cited gun owners? People who have everyday practical experience with guns are less likely to mythologize them as symbols of violence and mayhem, which could be a powerful source of bias in the results, yet it is never even mentioned and apparently wasn't considered. The only hard data that admits of no equivocation is that as the number of people carrying went up in the U.S. the rates of violent crime and homicide went down. That isn't sufficient to establish a causal connection, but it does disprove the claim that more guns on our streets means more violence and death. K.

Edwird -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/19/2016 11:48:16 PM)
The assault rifle thing with large mags worries me more than CCW, for the most part, because of nutcases off their meds or on the wrong ones. All states allow CC now with various requirements, or in a few almost none. Eight states do not require a permit. But whatever permits a state might require, I knew more than a few back in the day who didn't require a permit, whether the state did or not. Of the ones I knew, it made wonder how they could be so paranoid, considering the community we were in, but I never worried about it either. So, not all non-gun owners care a whole lot about CC as such, but as with large mags for rifles, wonder about the owners or carriers we don't know. (Sorry to go all Rumsfeld about it, ha ha.) It's more about that than 'not understanding weapons.' Like a good many other non-owners, I learned some of the basics anyway from those who did.

BamaD -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/19/2016 11:56:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird The assault rifle thing with large mags worries me more than CCW, for the most part, because of nutcases off their meds or on the wrong ones. All states allow CC now with various requirements, or in a few almost none. Eight states do not require a permit. But whatever permits a state might require, I knew more than a few back in the day who didn't require a permit, whether the state did or not. Of the ones I knew, it made wonder how they could be so paranoid, considering the community we were in, but I never worried about it either. So, not all non-gun owners care a whole lot about CC as such, but as with large mags for rifles, wonder about the owners or carriers we don't know. (Sorry to go all Rumsfeld about it, ha ha.) It's more about that than 'not understanding weapons.' Like a good many other non-owners, I learned some of the basics anyway from those who did. So you don't worry about drivers off their meds, or on the wrong ones? You do know don't you (and with the rants of the media I wouldn't be suprised if you didn't) you are more likely to be beaten to death than killed with a long gun. Drunk drivers are more likely to be the instrument of your demise than a long gun.

Edwird -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 12:36:47 AM)
If you would take longer than two seconds for what is actually being said to sink in before you responded, you wouldn't look so foolish all the time. "yes, of all the things people do and things that go wrong in the world because of wrong meds, those wrongly medicated and in possession of large mags are the ONLY ones I worry about." Quote that and stick it in an edit of your post and it will then not look like the complete nonsense that it is. A large house could be heated all winter with all the straw men you foist upon these forums.

Edwird -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 1:16:02 AM)
I would say this, though; If I have a semi-auto rifle, and I would like be able to get, say, a sixteen or twenty round mag in the future, whether I had one now or not ... The LAST thing I'd want is to hear a bunch idiots screaming "you can't limit our mags!" ... -immediately after a major shooting with a semi-auto rifle-. About the worst PR move one could think of if wanting for large mags to be left alone.

Termyn8or -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 1:34:37 AM)
While I do not agree with a legal limitation I will say this - if you know what the fuck you're doing it usually only takes one round. T^T

BamaD -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 6:12:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird If you would take longer than two seconds for what is actually being said to sink in before you responded, you wouldn't look so foolish all the time. "yes, of all the things people do and things that go wrong in the world because of wrong meds, those wrongly medicated and in possession of large mags are the ONLY ones I worry about." Quote that and stick it in an edit of your post and it will then not look like the complete nonsense that it is. A large house could be heated all winter with all the straw men you foist upon these forums. Just the sort of response I would expect when you don't have a real reasponse.

Nnanji -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 7:14:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird I would say this, though; If I have a semi-auto rifle, and I would like be able to get, say, a sixteen or twenty round mag in the future, whether I had one now or not ... The LAST thing I'd want is to hear a bunch idiots screaming "you can't limit our mags!" ... -immediately after a major shooting with a semi-auto rifle-. About the worst PR move one could think of if wanting for large mags to be left alone. Ah, and the worst thing I hear right after a shooting is gun ban political crap instead of honest remorse. Fucking gouls.

mnottertail -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 7:51:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Teenage gunned down through a closed door in broad daylight Is there no end to gun killings in America? Since most of the gun killings happen in areas that have been governed by liberals for the last 60 years I do see it happening until all of the old socialist die off. Dallas and NO are liberal bastions are they? FL, OK, VA, TX, all nutsucker hardcore felching covens. You're being an idiot again. Where do most of the shootings happen in this country, not just the last few weeks? Nutsucker states. You are being a shiteater still.

vincentML -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 8:23:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Take care when you listen to Kirata. He thinks rocks are conscious. You're becoming quite an accomplished liar, and here's another exhibit to add to the list. I do not think that rocks are conscious. K. Oh dear, did I mischaracterize your romance with panpsychism? No more than your slur that I have an inner gangsta. Is that supposed to reflect on my Italian heritage? Racist shit.

Nnanji -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 8:31:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Take care when you listen to Kirata. He thinks rocks are conscious. You're becoming quite an accomplished liar, and here's another exhibit to add to the list. I do not think that rocks are conscious. K. Oh dear, did I mischaracterize your romance with panpsychism? No more than your slur that I have an inner gangsta. Is that supposed to reflect on my Italian heritage? Racist shit. Again VML, aside from most of what you believe I like you. I think you put your beliefs into action with good intent. That's all anyone can ask of anyone. But, "Gangsta" isn't an Italian thing.

vincentML -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 8:33:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Edwird On almost every occasion when we release a new survey, someone in the media will ask, "What is the margin of error for this survey?" There is only one honest and accurate answer to this question -- which I sometimes use to the great confusion of my audience -- and that is, "The possible margin of error is infinite." Interestingly enough, there's a lot of truth to that in social experiments too. To take a case in point, were the subjects in the study that VML cited gun owners? People who have everyday practical experience with guns are less likely to mythologize them as symbols of violence and mayhem, which could be a powerful source of bias in the results, yet it is never even mentioned and apparently wasn't considered. The only hard data that admits of no equivocation is that as the number of people carrying went up in the U.S. the rates of violent crime and homicide went down. That isn't sufficient to establish a causal connection, but it does disprove the claim that more guns on our streets means more violence and death. K. If it doesn't establish a causal connection then it disproves nothing. So, bullshit.

tweakabelle -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 8:40:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata The only hard data that admits of no equivocation is that as the number of people carrying went up in the U.S. the rates of violent crime and homicide went down. That isn't sufficient to establish a causal connection, but it does disprove the claim that more guns on our streets means more violence and death. K. [/font] The data indicates that the number of armed households in the US is decreasing rapidly, due to a fall in the numbers of hunters. So the increased gun sales are to people who already have guns and are interested in expanding their arsenals for whatever reason(s). There are more guns per household in significantly fewer households. It is unreasonable to infer that there are "more guns on the streets" on the basis of this data, unless you wish to advance an argument that gun owners are carrying multiple weapons simultaneously "on the streets". It is also unreasonable to claim that the data "disprove(s) the claim that more guns on our streets means more violence and death". It does no such thing at all.

vincentML -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 8:45:43 AM)
quote: I'm looking where I said anything about a response time. I think you're projecting again. You were lickety split quick to mischaracterize some mythical inner spite as my motive before I responded, so I take it two hours made you impatient. In the meanwhile I am still waiting for the data I requested of you.

Kirata -> RE: AW SHIT, ANOTHER SENSELESS KILLING BY A WIDE-EYED 2ND AMENDMENT NUT (7/20/2016 8:48:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Take care when you listen to Kirata. He thinks rocks are conscious. You're becoming quite an accomplished liar, and here's another exhibit to add to the list. I do not think that rocks are conscious. Oh dear, did I mischaracterize your romance with panpsychism? No, you didn't "mischaracterize" anything. You lied. And now your lying again. I have no "romance" with panpsychism. I simply observed that it did not seem to me unreasonable, but you seem to trust your lamp-socket more than your eyes. My only comment was that I don't find it unreasonable. quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML No more so than your slur that I have an inner gangsta. Is that supposed to reflect on my Italian heritage? Racist shit. Take your medication Vincent, and clean up your slime trail on the way out. K.

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