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RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 6:19:12 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Oh but the buck doesnt stop there! These are only the zit on the flys wing sitting on top of the iceburg of american/brito history.



By Roger K. Broxton of Andalusia, president of the Confederate Heritage Fund

Abraham Lincoln repeatedly stated his war was caused by taxes only, and not by slavery, at all.

"My policy sought only to collect the Revenue (a 40 percent federal sales tax on imports to Southern States under the Morrill Tariff Act of 1861)." reads paragraph 5 of Lincoln's First Message to the U.S. Congress, penned July 4, 1861.


"I have no purpose, directly or in-directly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so," Lincoln said it his first inaugural on March 4 of the same year.

There is no proof of Lincoln ever declaring the war was fought to abolish slavery, and without such an official statement, the war-over-slavery teaching remains a complete lie and offensive hate speech that divides Americans, as is being done now by the media and politicians regarding the Confederate flag in South Carolina.

Slavery was NOT abolished; just the name was changed to sharecropper with over 5 million Southern whites and 3 million Southern blacks working on land stolen by Wall Street bankers.

White, black, Indian, Hispanic, Protestant, Catholic and Jewish Confederates valiantly stood as one in thousands of battles on land and sea. Afterwards, they attended Confederate Veterans' reunions together and received pensions from Southern States.

Photos of black Confederate veterans may be seen in Alabama's Archives in Scrapbook – 41st Reunion of United Confederate Veterans, Montgomery, June 2,3,4 and 5, 1931."

Lincoln did not claim slavery was a reason even in his Emancipation Proclamations on Sept. 22, 1862, and Jan. 1, 1863. Moreover, Lincoln's proclamations exempted a million slaves under his control from being freed (including General U.S. Grant's four slaves) and offered the South three months to return to the Union (pay 40 percent sales tax) and keep their slaves. None did. Lincoln affirmed his only reason for issuing was: "as a fit and necessary war measure for suppressing said (tax) rebellion."

Mrs. Grant wrote in her personal memoirs: "We rented our pretty little home (in St. Louis) and hired out our four servants to persons whom we knew and who promised to be kind to them. Eliza, Dan, Julia and John belonged to me. When I visited the General during the War, I nearly always had Julia with me as nurse."

Lincoln declared war to collect taxes in his two presidential war proclamations against the Confederate States, on April 15 and 19th, 1861: "Whereas an insurrection against the Government of the United States has broken out and the laws of the United States for the collection of the revenue cannot be effectually executed therein."

On Dec. 25, 1860, South Carolina declared unfair taxes to be a cause of secession: "The people of the Southern States are not only taxed for the benefit of the Northern States, but after the taxes are collected, three-fourths (75%) of them are expended at the North (to subsidize Wall Street industries that elected Lincoln)." (Paragraphs 5-8)

It was on April 8, 1861, that Lincoln, alone, started the war by a surprise attack on Charleston Harbor with a fleet of warships, led by the USS Harriet Lane, to occupy Fort Sumter, a Federal tax collection fort in the territorial waters of South Carolina and then invaded Virginia.

On April 29, 1861, President Jefferson Davis described the South's response of self-defense in his Message To the Confederate States Congress: "I directed a proposal to be made to the commander of Fort Sumter that we would abstain from directing our fire on Fort Sumter if he would promise not to open fire on our forces unless first attacked. This proposal was refused." (Paragraphs 8-9)

The only reason the South ever gave for fighting was in self-defense of the voluntary Union of independent States, as symbolized then by the U.S. Flag.

Secession (withdrawal from a voluntary union) and war are two very different events.
http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/06/war-over-slavery_rhetoric_is_i.html


The real reasons for anything are never found in any gubblemint regulated propaganda based school.

So any reasonable person would have to ask themselves, if Lincoln did not go to war over slavery how come everyone drank the koolaid?

How did this koolaid manage to get served to the public?

Begs the question since koolaid was served at such a massive level what do you know that is not koolaide?




That would be wrong. Period. While Lincoln said that and was bound and determined to collect legal revenues from the South, and he was in negotiations with the states that HAD already seceded before he took office, the ONLY REASON the Federal Government went to war against the terrorists was over the seizure of a Federal Reservation. Period. End of fucking joke, end of story.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 6:28:25 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Load sixteen tons,
And what do you get,
Another day older and deeper in debt,
St. Peter don't call me cause I can't go,
I owe my soul to the company store

Think slavery is abolished ? Well, a long time ago people paid cash for new cars, even houses. Now they do not even pay cash for the gasoline for the cars. If you have to make a payment every month, you canot quit your job.

Now let's get that one statement across here - YOU CANNOT QUIT YOUR JOB.

How does that differ from slavery ?

Many years ago had a discussion with a Black guy and I said "They didn't free you, they took us". He did not disagree. Talking with a guy from Russia he asks me "Where is the freedom ?". He thought that in the "park" which is pretty much wilderness that you could put up a tent, make a fire and just stay out there, not here, they close at ten. He told me that in Russia you do not need a fishing license, and when you get a hunting license after qualifying with a rifle that your hunting license is good for life. Meantime we have to pay the state of Montana like $500 a year whether we bag anything or not, and more if we do.

Indeed, where is the freedom ? And we are talking Russia here, not Amsterdam or Uruguay. And he had come here before the breakup of the USSR. Because of my work I have run into alot of immigrants, some sponsored here because of their skill. Guy from Poland had plenty to say, also came here before the breakup of the USSR, was thinking of going back. Mexicans are going back. I mean illegal Mexicans are going back. They don't want welfare, they want an under the table job picking watermelons or something. They will live in squalor and send half the money back home to take care of their family.

You can't much fault such people morally, though they are breaking US law. Well I break the law (statute actually) when I go out to the garage to burn one.

T^T

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 6:38:57 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Start of the civil war 1861
Abolition of slavery 1863

So the cause came two years after the effect ?

Having studied it a bit, I am sure they saw it coming. In fact even in the southern states there were abolitionists. But there was a hell of alot more going on they didn't like. Otherwise, why would the commoner fight for rich people to hold slaves rather than to hire them ?

T^T

From the Georgia Declaration of Secession:

The prohibition of slavery in the Territories is the cardinal principle of this organization.

From the Declaration by South Carolina:

In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.


So, clearly the major complaints of the secessionists were (1) the Free territories, and (2) the refusal of the Northern states to comply with the Fugitive Slave Law, all of this preceded the Civil War.

vML

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 9:51:38 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Thinks he's
The_Brain.gif[/img]
but is actually
PinkyandtheBrain.Pinky.png/170px-PinkyandtheBrain.Pinky.png[/img]


So the source is not good enough for you or are you too fucking retarded to read?

Lincoln: "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

This: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/lincoln1.asp
is a link, you click on it, then read, that is called a source.

Get your 5 year old to help and read it to you.




“As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”


― Abraham Lincoln, Lincoln Letters

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 12:34:52 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Thinks he's
The_Brain.gif[/img]
but is actually
PinkyandtheBrain.Pinky.png/170px-PinkyandtheBrain.Pinky.png[/img]


So the source is not good enough for you or are you too fucking retarded to read?

Lincoln: "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

This: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/lincoln1.asp
is a link, you click on it, then read, that is called a source.

Get your 5 year old to help and read it to you.




“As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”


― Abraham Lincoln, Lincoln Letters



the problem of course is that despite those wonderful sounding words that you quoted from a 'private' letter if I recall, Lincoln unequivocally states he will do nothing to infringe upon the institution of slavery.

So then are you making a point and advocating that americans choose instead of the facts to hypocritically deny the facts and by deceive themselves they are somehow altruistic good guys in this despite the real reason was taxation and and a wall street land grab and the enslavement of the south in violation on every conceivable level of the constitution and their alleged rights of the people, to ultimately perpetuate slavery covertly by conversion?

I can certainly understand where finding these things out after being taught for years it was all about slavery [and in a sense that it was the beginning to our enslavement that would be true] can be a difficult reality pill to swallow.

Then after all that there is the mysterious disappearance of the 13th and reemergence of something slipped in to replace it. Using one private letter to claim that is the cause of CW is a bit of a stretch when its denied officially and in action. You really bought what you said?





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/30/2016 12:38:03 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 12:45:13 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

That would be wrong. Period. While Lincoln said that and was bound and determined to collect legal revenues from the South, and he was in negotiations with the states that HAD already seceded before he took office, the ONLY REASON the Federal Government went to war against the terrorists was over the seizure of a Federal Reservation. Period. End of fucking joke, end of story.





The purpose of the the raid on Harper’s Ferry has never been proven and is only speculative.

On the night of October 16, 1859, Brown and a band of followers seized the federal arsenal at Harper’s Ferry, Virginia (now West Virginia), in what is believed to have been an attempt to arm a slave insurrection. (Brown denied this at his trial, but evidence indicated otherwise.) They were dislodged by a force of U.S. Marines led by Army lieutenant colonel Robert E. Lee.

Brown was swiftly tried for treason against Virginia and hanged. Southern reaction initially was that his acts were those of a mad fanatic, of little consequence. But when Northern abolitionists made a martyr of him, Southerners came to believe this was proof the North intended to wage a war of extermination against white Southerners. Brown’s raid thus became a step on the road to war between the sections.


You spout that HF was the main reason, it was not, it was the 'invented' reason, [like slavery, since we still have it today], the main reason was tax collection and to force the states into tax submission which is the sole purpose of the constitution of today in the first place.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/30/2016 12:47:38 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 12:51:12 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Load sixteen tons,
And what do you get,
Another day older and deeper in debt,
St. Peter don't call me cause I can't go,
I owe my soul to the company store

Think slavery is abolished ? Well, a long time ago people paid cash for new cars, even houses. Now they do not even pay cash for the gasoline for the cars. If you have to make a payment every month, you canot quit your job.

Now let's get that one statement across here - YOU CANNOT QUIT YOUR JOB.

How does that differ from slavery ?



Far too much reason and applied logic for most.

So I will answer it, NO DIFFERENCE!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 1:08:17 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
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History is a lie, and all religion…you will get no argument from me.
Your country was not founded it was taken, so I am a little disappointed at you using that word.

They released some more Thatcher’s files in the last week - I was going to do a thread but could not be bothered – I simply figure no-ones cares regarding what was dripped fed to the public sheople…and the actual reality of it and why. And the shenanigans of Scottish independence vote and brexit


So the essence of your thread is "black" people owned slaves?

I did not know that and your weighted opinion is what 1% of black people owned slaves?

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 1:18:13 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

History is a lie, and all religion…you will get no argument from me.
Your country was not founded it was taken, so I am a little disappointed at you using that word.

They released some more Thatcher’s files in the last week - I was going to do a thread but could not be bothered – I simply figure no-ones cares regarding what was dripped fed to the public sheople…and the actual reality of it and why. And the shenanigans of Scottish independence vote and brexit


So the essence of your thread is "black" people owned slaves?

I did not know that and your weighted opinion is what 1% of black people owned slaves?




the essence of the thread is that everything taught to us in our gubmint school system is politically slanted bullshit to cover up criminal operations that run counter to the best interest of the people and in favor of the overlords. Today like yesterday. The names have been changed to protect the guilty.

Same thing britain did to you guys, we too enjoy the freedom of cameras up our asses illegal SS hypothetical legislative law to extort money at every turn and support the continual growth of gubmint.

Literally all history 'that is taught in the schools' is bullshit politics koolaide fed to indoctrinate the masses, and blind and pacify them to the criminal operations taking place in front of their eyes. Real history only comes with vast hours of research if its not classified as state secrets.

Try exercising your 'reserved' right of religion and faster than you can blink your eye you will discover you are not subject to your God but the gubmint God. Ask the mormons how exercising their religion worked for them now that the criminal coup has fully matured, taken root and established their religion, and there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it but accept the bullshit they fed.

A reserved right as recognized by the courts supreme and otherwise is correctly a right in which the other party [gubmint] has no jurisdiction to change without your agreement.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/30/2016 1:27:00 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 1:38:39 PM   
WickedsDesire


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I always go to the point of origin, then I next go to time Time immemorial I know what they do and why they do it. The blind, meek and stupid are easily led and they would have it no other way.

I actually said in a thread, in the last week, (not seen you about for abit everything ok?) why can they not be held legally accountable Now, that would be fun methinks

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 1:49:24 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

the essence of the thread is that everything taught to us in our gubmint school system is politically slanted bullshit to cover up criminal operations that run counter to the best interest of the people and in favor of the overlords. Today like yesterday. The names have been changed to protect the guilty.

You make it sound like a managed conspiracy. It just doesn't work that way. There are too many independent school districts, too many text book publishers, too much internet, too many colleges and universities, and too many independent teachers to maintain a conspiracy of such magnitude. Sure, there are influences. The first history prof i had at university was a 75% skeptic; he was enlightening for me. For the most part there is not enough time in the 180 day school year to teach a thorough and comprehensive course on American History. Your contention of a grand conspiracy is just more fantastical bull crap. In fact it is just plain insulting. You are telling people on this forum that we are unable to take independent positions on conflicting matters. That is clearly NOT the case.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 2:18:40 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Start of the civil war 1861
Abolition of slavery 1863

So the cause came two years after the effect ? T^T

A major cause of the war was over slave-holding in new territories and/or states, not existing states. Lincoln finally abolished slavery in all existing states halfway through he war, but that was not the original intent.

quote:


Having studied it a bit, I am sure they saw it coming. In fact even in the southern states there were abolitionists. But there was a hell of a lot more going on they didn't like. Otherwise, why would the commoner fight for rich people to hold slaves rather than to hire them ?


Patriotism for your own state/land...concerns over what else the federal government might try to change in your state later if they feel they have the power to do so (which they would if Southerners didn't fight against this)...there were reasons other than just slavery, but the abo;litionist movement had been building for decades and it was the primary.

As far as commoners fighting for the rich:
Slavery was interwoven into the Southern economy even though only a relatively small portion of the population actually owned slaves. Slaves could be rented or traded or sold to pay debts. Ownership of more than a handful of slaves bestowed respect and contributed to social position, and slaves, as the property of individuals and businesses, represented the largest portion of the region’s personal and corporate wealth, as cotton and land prices declined and the price of slaves soared.http://www.historynet.com/causes-of-the-civil-war

The South was agragarian. It was their livelihood. They didn't have the immigrants pouring in to hire as laborers at cheap wages the way that the North did. Lack of slaves meant crops would sit in the fields and rot, plantations would fail, taking the economy and their way of life with it.



(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 10:03:20 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

A major cause of the war was over slave-holding in new territories and/or states, not existing states. Lincoln finally abolished slavery in all existing states halfway through he war, but that was not the original intent.

The Emancipation applied only to states that were still in rebellion when it was issued. In some states, like Kentucky i think, which were never in secession, slaves were not freed until later. Check me on this.

vML

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 10:32:28 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

A major cause of the war was over slave-holding in new territories and/or states, not existing states. Lincoln finally abolished slavery in all existing states halfway through he war, but that was not the original intent.

The Emancipation applied only to states that were still in rebellion when it was issued. In some states, like Kentucky i think, which were never in secession, slaves were not freed until later. Check me on this.

vML

My bad. You are correct that it only applied to states in rebellion.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 11:40:48 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

A major cause of the war was over slave-holding in new territories and/or states, not existing states. Lincoln finally abolished slavery in all existing states halfway through he war, but that was not the original intent.

The Emancipation applied only to states that were still in rebellion when it was issued. In some states, like Kentucky i think, which were never in secession, slaves were not freed until later. Check me on this.

vML



unconstitutional, required an amendment, and done as an after thought.

“My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it.” -A Lincoln


Similarly, in 1861 Congress resolved that the purpose of the war was not “[to interfere] with the rights or established institutions of those states,” but to preserve the Union “with the rights of the several states unimpaired.”

In his First Inaugural Address (4 March 1861), Lincoln threatened to invade any state that failed to collect federal “duties and imposts.”


On 17 July 1858, he said: “What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races.” And in the fourth of his debates with Douglas (on 18 September), he vowed: “I will to the very last stand by the law of this state, which forbids the marrying of white people with Negroes.” Lincoln enthusiastically supported the Illinois Constitution, which at that time prohibited the emigration of black people into the state; he also backed the infamous Illinois Black Codes, which deprived the small number of free blacks residing within the state any semblance of citizenship; and he applauded the Fugitive Slave Act (1850), which compelled Northerners to capture runaway slaves and return them to their owners.

Lincoln was a “Defender of the Constitution.” The polar opposite is true: Lincoln was a tyrant and the despoiler par excellence of the Constitution. Generations of historians have accurately labelled him a “dictator.” “Dictatorship played a decisive role in the North’s successful effort to maintain the Union by force of arms,” wrote Clinton Rossiter in Constitutional Dictatorship (first published in 1948). “Lincoln’s amazing disregard for the Constitution was considered by nobody as legal.”

1. The authority in this field is Thomas DiLorenzo. See in particular his books The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War, Prima Lifestyles, 2002, and Lincoln Unmasked: What You’re Not Supposed to Know About Dishonest Abe, 2006, and short articles. See also Government Growth, the Party of Lincoln, and George W. Bush by Anthony Gregory, and Jeffrey Rogers Hummel, Emancipating Slaves, Enslaving Free Men: A History of the American Civil War, Open Court, 1996.
2. In 1860, the proceeds from tariffs comprised 95 percent of federal revenue. The secession of the Southern states thus meant considerable loss to the federal treasury. Expenditures – i.e., pork barrel politics – would have to fall, and Lincoln’s and his Republican henchmen’s raison d’être become much less viable. That, they would not abide.
3. Republicans demanded the blockade and bombardment of Southern ports because the Confederate constitution had outlawed protectionist tariffs. Given a 50 percent tax on goods imported via New York, and a 10 percent tax in Charleston (South Carolina), then much trade would divert from Northern to Southern ports – to the detriment of the former and the profit of the latter. This the Republicans could not abide: hence even before the War started they demanded the blockade and bombardment of Southern ports. See also David Gordon’s review of A Century of War: Lincoln, Wilson, and Roosevelt.
4. Native Americans have as many grounds as Southerners to despise Dishonest Abe. The man who gave the military a free hand to oppress Northerners and Southerners also gave carte blanche to federal troops and cavalry to exterminate Indian tribes in the West.
5. Canadians, too, have good reason to laugh in derision at Americans delusions about “self determination.” Just as Southerners were forcibly denied the right of secession, on two occasions (1775 and 1812) Americans invaded Canada in order to force annexation upon unwilling British North Americans. Canadians declined the American “offers” because they have long known something that utterly escapes Americans: a benign despot across the seas, particularly one that takes no more than an intermittent interest in his overseas Dominions, is far preferable to a malignant one within the Beltway. Fortunately for the liberty of Canadians, on each occasion the Americans withdrew in ignominy and disarray.
6. In his memoirs (1891), Sherman wrote that he met with Lincoln after the March to the Sea. The president was eager to hear stories about how thousands of Southern civilians (mostly children, women, the elderly and the infirm) had been plundered, sometimes murdered, and rendered homeless. According to Sherman, Lincoln laughed uproariously at the stories. One of Sherman’s biographers (Lee Kennett, Sherman: A Soldier’s Life, Harper, 2002), who otherwise writes very favourably about the general, concludes that if the Confederates had won the war then they would have been “justified in stringing up President Lincoln and the entire Union high command for violation of the laws of war, specifically for waging war against non-combatants.”







Although Abraham Lincoln had always had a personal dislike of slavery, he was indeed willing to tolerate it in the states in which it was well established if it could preserve the Union—and if it did not spread to other states in future. After the South seceded, however, Lincoln decided that they’d had their chance and all bets were off. Always balancing pragmatism with idealism, he waited for a convincing enough victory to give the impression of dealing from a position of strength, which Antietam provided, and then issued the Emancipation Proclamation in January 1863.

That proclamation was not only aimed at the Rebels, however—it was designed to force the moral factor of slavery into the forefront before Britain (which had banned the slave trade in 1831) and France—both of which had been considering recognizing the Confederacy. In doing this, Lincoln turned a battle that on the tactical level had been an unsatisfyingly marginal victory for the North into a major strategic victory.

Sincerely,
Jon Guttman
Research Director
World History Group
More Questions at Ask Mr. History





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/30/2016 11:57:45 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/30/2016 11:51:47 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

the essence of the thread is that everything taught to us in our gubmint school system is politically slanted bullshit to cover up criminal operations that run counter to the best interest of the people and in favor of the overlords. Today like yesterday. The names have been changed to protect the guilty.

You make it sound like a managed conspiracy. It just doesn't work that way. There are too many independent school districts, too many text book publishers, too much internet, too many colleges and universities, and too many independent teachers to maintain a conspiracy of such magnitude. Sure, there are influences. The first history prof i had at university was a 75% skeptic; he was enlightening for me. For the most part there is not enough time in the 180 day school year to teach a thorough and comprehensive course on American History. Your contention of a grand conspiracy is just more fantastical bull crap. In fact it is just plain insulting. You are telling people on this forum that we are unable to take independent positions on conflicting matters. That is clearly NOT the case.



so it does not bother you that the constitution was and remains asswipe is that it? Where it extends to constitutional violations that are slipped under the table I suppose conspiracy may fit. but its designed into the system. Insulted? Thats usually the case when people cant support their beliefs.

Why not educate us how the original 13th magically disappeared without an amendment?






This level of fraud can only be accomplished by conspiracy so in that respect I'd agree... The rest is built into the system design to FUCK you.

Not only do I await your explanation for how that happened and where the records are but I want to know why no one knows about it or is taught about the fraud we are witnessing regarding the 13th?

Then we will talk about conspiracies ok


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/31/2016 12:01:12 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/31/2016 5:46:13 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

That would be wrong. Period. While Lincoln said that and was bound and determined to collect legal revenues from the South, and he was in negotiations with the states that HAD already seceded before he took office, the ONLY REASON the Federal Government went to war against the terrorists was over the seizure of a Federal Reservation. Period. End of fucking joke, end of story.





The purpose of the the raid on Harper’s Ferry has never been proven and is only speculative.

On the night of October 16, 1859, Brown and a band of followers seized the federal arsenal at Harper’s Ferry, Virginia (now West Virginia), in what is believed to have been an attempt to arm a slave insurrection. (Brown denied this at his trial, but evidence indicated otherwise.) They were dislodged by a force of U.S. Marines led by Army lieutenant colonel Robert E. Lee.

Brown was swiftly tried for treason against Virginia and hanged. Southern reaction initially was that his acts were those of a mad fanatic, of little consequence. But when Northern abolitionists made a martyr of him, Southerners came to believe this was proof the North intended to wage a war of extermination against white Southerners. Brown’s raid thus became a step on the road to war between the sections.


You spout that HF was the main reason, it was not, it was the 'invented' reason, [like slavery, since we still have it today], the main reason was tax collection and to force the states into tax submission which is the sole purpose of the constitution of today in the first place.





No, Harpers Ferry was not the cause of the war. No More than the Oklahoma City Bombing was the cause of Iraq.

The republican platform and stated ideology was to not expand slavery into new areas. They tried to do it in Cuba and South America after the Clay compromise. They were shot down flat. See the Toombs speech. You spout asswipe, I said nothing about Harpers Ferry. The Federal Reservation in question was Ft. Sumter. Don't put words in my mouth you are not sane enough to do so. Sumter was a Federal Tax Collection point. The federal government has the right to collect revenue.

Fundamentally like the dickheads of today, the hue and cry of secession was, "Lincoln is trying to take your slaves away!!!".

The rights of the Federal Government (all the rights) loomed equally large in the fight. Nothing violent was being done to bring them back in line until..........................they fucked around and seized a federal reservation.

The south was gearing up for this war long long before, when Jefferson Davis was secy of war, he moved many arsenals down south.

DUCY?



< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/31/2016 5:47:40 AM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/31/2016 10:42:25 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
There you go, thats what I am talking about, the people in this country as seen in your post drink lakes of fucking propaganda koolaide, yourself included.

The north formed a coup and used federal powers to illegally form a monopoly and operate exactly as the king did to insure perpetual slavery, and they continue to operate that way today.


In 1828, northern politicians forced the south to buy goods from the north by passing federal laws that placed high taxes on goods imported from Europe.

This angered many southerners, according to the book “Causes of the Civil War: Differences Between the North and the South”:

“The Tariff of 1828 was almost more than [Vice President John C.] Calhoun and many other southerners could tolerate. The tariff was raised on imported textiles, manufactured goods, and a variety of raw materials produced in the West. The new tariffs were as high as 50 percent on some items. The south believed it saw no direct benefit from the tariff. The only items protected by the tariff were items the south did not produce. Because tariffs allowed domestic producers to charge more for their products, southerners understandably felt cheated. They believed the Tariff of 1828 was outrageous, calling it the “Tariff of Abominations.”

A debate raged on about the tariff for a few years until another tariff was passed in 1832 that increased taxes on manufactured cloth and iron, further enraging southerners.

South Carolina threatened to seceed but changed its mind when Calhoun suggested nullification. The state legislature agreed and nullified the tariff.

The federal government [invented] viewed nullification as treasonous and responded with a “force bill” that allowed the president to [unconstitutionally execute a coup and] use Navy and Army power to enforce Congressional acts.

Finally, both sides reached a compromise, allowing the tariff to continue only if it decreased each year between the years 1833 t0 1842 until the tariff was at roughly the same rate as it was in 1816, according to the book “Causes of the Civil War”:

“Calhoun lost the battle over nullification. The Senator learned a valuable lesson, however: No state can stand alone against the federal government…Thus, the south in 1860 would respond very differently to the question of state’s rights and secession than it had in 1833.”

“Revolts, Protests, Demonstrations and Rebellions in American History”; Edited by Steven L. Danver; 2011
“Causes of the Civil War: Differences Between the North and South”; Shane Mountjoy; Tim McNeese
Library of Congress: Documents from the Continental Congress and Constitutional Convention 1774-1789: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/continental/territ.html
Kentucky Education Television: Causes of the Civil War: http://www.ket.org/civilwar/causes.html
The Columbia Encyclopedia: Causes of the Civil War: http://www.us-civilwar.com/cause.htm





No one was killed at sumpter, the south was cheated by the north and wall street interests, northern operatives formed a coup de ta and unlawfully used the army and navy to enforce its coups against the states in violation of the legitimate rights of the southern states a violation which nullifed the contract, the north by its coup illegally attacked the citizens of the states to further their monopoly and re-establish the kingdom through federal supremacy by force.

enjoy your koolaide





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/31/2016 10:47:15 AM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline
enters to hush an awe wicked looks around add sees nothing*

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Everything you know is a lie - 7/31/2016 1:52:30 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
"So, clearly the major complaints of the secessionists were (1) the Free territories, and (2) the refusal of the Northern states to comply with the Fugitive Slave Law, all of this preceded the Civil War. "

Ever hear of the Dred Scott decision ?

T^T

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 40
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