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PeonForHer -> RE: Feminists want equality, except when paying for dates (8/3/2016 6:45:19 AM)
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Awareness, the confident tone you adopt on all this is *wildly* at variance with your knowledge of it. We both know it. Please at least stop trying to convince me otherwise. Peon, I'm afraid that's just your own Dunning-Kruger in action. While some contend a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, it's readily apparent that in your case, a little bit of indoctrination has deluded you into thinking you know far more than you actually do. And your preference for dogma over methodology verifies it. You are far too wildly incompetent to even pretend to judge another's capability.
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Feminists call themselves that because they're into the ideas of freedom and equality. No. They don't.
Yes. They do. Your view of feminism is just a mound of propaganda, A. It isn't any different to RM's in quality. No. They do not. Feminism is an ideology founded upon a set of beliefs including - but not limited to - patriarchy theory. A feminist who doesn't subscribe to patriarchy theory isn't a feminist because without it, there is no underlying justification for the demonisation of men.
Look, I'm sorry - but that really is balls, Awareness. It's *always* been easy enough for you just to google this stuff, but you've absolutely refused, ever, to do it. The result is that your idea of what feminism is, is a half-baked, crazed mixture of RM's type of foaming propaganda and your own prejudices. For a start, feminism isn't even the hierarchical entity that you appear to imagine it to be. There isn't an intelligentsia at the top that rules what all feminists think. Jesus, A. You talk about it like feminists are the Khmer Rouge in bras ruled by some Pol Pot in a wig and make up. It's nutty.
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Peon, please try to keep up. Having to lecture you on your own area of claimed expertise is tedious for me and it really must be embarrassing for you.
Right, this is now using up the last of my patience with you. I've met some of the most influential brains in the world. Internationally-known professors, of all sorts of subjects. They've have every possible reason to feel superior to the people they're talking to (myself very much included) but none of them has ever, to anybody I've seen, felt the need to belittle him or her.
You, on the other hand, do it like it's a deep-rooted compulsion. And I'm beginning to suspect why: it's necessary for the notions of masculinity, dominance, hierarchy and much else that you've cobbled together over the years. There's the Alpha at the top - yourself, natch - the lesser dom males who go around being all sensitive and stuff, then there are the females who can *never* be dominant, the sub females who know their place if they're 'truly feminine' .... And then there are the sub males - who are just deranged.
Awareness. Please try to get this: You're not going to be able to dominate anyone other than your partner, and even then only so long as she likes it.
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
What's interesting is to watch you exemplify this. You are feminism's fascism in action. A man telling feminists that they must enjoy sex his way otherwise they're not good feminists. I'm pretty sure some of the lesbian feminists would happily eviscerate you for such arrogance, but I digress...
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Irrelevant straw man. I've not told feminists what they should feel. No, you've told WOMEN how they should feel, trumpeting your male viewpoint from the mount, "Feminists are thin because they go to the gym so they can find attractive partners and enjoy sex!". I'd love to see you try that little screed at the local meeting of the sisterhood. They'd tear you to bits.
Strewth. If one straw man doesn't work, throw a bigger straw man after it, eh? A feminist can decide that she wants to go to the gym in order to get fit and muscular (nope, of course I didn't say 'thin', as you imply). Or she can learn to love her body as it is. Those are just two of the multiplicity of ideas that she can choose to follow. Just the same as men, who can choose any one of the notions that are available to *them* - which, of course, can be pretty much the same, anyway, because feminists can also be male.
That is what gender equality implies, A. That is why gender equality is so central to feminism. If you don't get this, you'll only ever be talking at best about the periphery of it rather than core of it.
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On the other hand, you - and RM, of course - have been *tirelessly* telling feminists just how much they must hate men; be losers, want to grab what's rightfully men's - etc, etc, etc ....on every possible occasion. A lie. Feminists exhibit anti-male hatred and feminism is a doctrine tailor-made for life's losers. I've never said a damn thing about women trying to "take what is rightfully men's". This is just your typical feminist deception in action. You're just another lying feminist, Peon.
OK, my most profound apologies, then. Feminists are full of hatred for men and they're all losers, but they don't actually want to take anything that 'properly belongs to men'. A subtle difference, but I see now that it's an important one to you.
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Feminists are generally so uptight about the gender war that they're unable to relax. Of course, subspace is subspace so once they trance, they stop thinking anyway, but for that to happen, they have to be lucky enough to run into a dominant man.
Conversely women who are comfortable with gender difference don't have a chorus of voices in their head muttering about patriarchy, male dominance and the gender wage gap."
Drivel. And again, in straw man territory. Feminists believe in equality and freedom. If they take those two principles to heart, they'll be helped in having a good time in bed, not hindered. No, it's just something for which you don't have an answer. Because you're not very good at the arguing thing. And I think you'll find most people believe in freedom. That has nothing to do with feminism, although it's curious you're now trying to claim feminism is somehow responsible for democracy.
Yep ... right. Step-back time.
Obviously, I've never claimed that feminism is somehow responsible for democracy - I think you just picked that out of your hat. And yes, correct, most people believe in freedom. Feminists did not invent the notion of freedom, nor that of equality. What they did was *apply* those two notions to an an area of social life that had been neglected. There's pure theory, and there's applied theory. Like pure maths or applied maths. In the same way the Chartist movement in the UK struggled for votes for all men, no doubt inspired by the French Revolution's call for 'liberty, equality and fraternity'. But it hadn't occurred to them to call for votes for all *people*. You see? Theory of equality, theory of freedom - application of theory.
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A feminist is someone who believes in equality of the genders, A, as I'm afraid you're simply having to get used to me reminding you. This 'conspiracy' stuff is a straw man. Peon, a little bit of predicate logic would disabuse you of this notion - if you had the wit to comprehend it.
'If you had the wit to comprehend it'. Priceless! : ) This, from the man who cannot work out how to google the simplest outline of what feminism is, then read it and absorb it!
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You would need some sense of your rights to freedom and equality in order to enjoy sex, yes. No. In fact there's a whole raft of people in the BDSM world who don't possess either of those things and yet, strangely, enjoy sex.
Sex is fucking biological. It is not enabled by political dogma. Christ, you are so appallingly bad at this.
... And when the belittling tactic is running thin, you inject some 'fuckings' in order to hint at how angry you are at having to explain such simple things to such inferior brains. Superb!
If sex were just 'fucking biological', then Freud's whole enterprise would have been founded on sod all. Ideas - the way people think - get in the way of what's 'fucking biological' (FB, for short, henceforth.) Thinking fucks up what's meant to be just FB. You know this yourself - that feminist thinking screws up sex. Assuming that's true - do you imagine that feminist thinking is the *only* thinking that screws up sex? People have to fight fire with fire. One of the things that feminism discovered was that there was a really powerful force that stops women enjoying sex because 'enjoying sex' is, somehow, something that they never even expected to enjoy. Enjoyment of sex was somehow 'not on offer' to them. To put it another way: they'd submitted *so much* that that submitted to not enjoying sex.
Unless a woman can grab just enough sense of her freedom (or has it to start with), and her equal right to enjoy sex - in other words, some minimal dose of feminism - then, yes, she can't be a willing sexual submissive. That's paradoxical, sure ... but it's essential to what we all do here nonetheless, isn't it? To be a willing sexual submissive, you need a good, strong sense of that 'willing' bit, don't you?
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Those senses do, of course, predate the conscious movement to gain those things that we - or, I should say, those of us who can see what's actually there - call 'feminism'. Your premise is completely false. Women have been enjoying sex for millennia. Your contention otherwise is the work of a sophomoric mind whose apprehension of reality is sketchy at best.
Now you're being a tit, A. Reasons aforementioned.
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further, this will only happen if they can clinch a man that turns them on, No, they can masturbate or they can have sex with women. Really Peon, your ignorance is appalling - how dare you suggest that women need men in order to enjoy themselves!
Yes, a straw man. Again, they can choose to masturbate, they can choose to find a man, or another woman. They can do any of those things, as can men, equally. They have a choice, equal to that of men, to go for whatever works for them. They can take this outlook, or that outlook. Come on A, stop being obtuse and pulling my plonker. You must have known that this was the point I was making.
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and that in turn will only happen if they look good enough for the sort of men that they'll enjoy in bed. Oh, I see. So what you're saying is that feminists go to the gym and eat right for MEN. That all of their effort in this regard goes into pleasing men.
Straw man. Nope. You got nailed to the wall on this one and now you realise your mistake. Yet another step in your ongoing education. You're welcome! :)
Yes, straw man. See above.
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A feminist is somebody who believes in equality of the genders, A. Remember my saying that, at all, in the past? I remember you saying that, but unfortunately for you, I've already exposed your logic deficiencies. Feminists believe in equality of the sexes. It does not therefore follow that anybody who believes in equality of the sexes is a feminist. That's an elementary logic error Peon and if you actually taught Political Science you would know that.
Nnnyessss ... Where did you look up your little bit about logic, A? Did you look at the Wiki piece but - baffled - when on to something else? You need to go back to it. I mean, hell, can't you read your own stuff back and not see that it's senseless?
Look, A ... I know plenty of self-taught people - and they've been brilliant. However, the best of them never forgets the old line, 'the self-taught man was taught by an idiot'. You don't know what it is that you don't know. That's why people need someone other than themselves to teach them at times. Not me, though - I mean, let's face it, it's not as if you're paying me, is it?
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I'm sorry that you don't like that definition, but there it is. It is *the* definition, whatever you or anyone else wants it to be. Your definition is irrelevant. You could define Scotsmen as "those who believe haggis is a form of cheese", and that definition would also be irrelevant. I'm not sure what point you think you're making, but based on your previous output it's probably a pretty shit one.
I guess my point is to get your partner to buy a dictionary and teach you how to use it, A. God knows, I've tried everything else. I might as well have tried teaching a moose to apply nail varnish.
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But it *was* good, A. Or are you now suggesting that you know more about my sex life than I do? What on earth is the matter with you? As for 'hyper-masculine men' and 'hyper-feminine women' ... oh lordy, where would I start? Oh Peon, you're a feminist. You lie. Nothing you say can be taken seriously because you'll always put the narrative ahead of facts.
Omnipresent as well as omniscient are we, now, A? And a shape-shifter to boot! *You* were that rather chubby fly on my wall last time I was giving a good woman a good seeing-to!
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I'll leave this here, because it's so supremely relevant.
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
Honestly Peon, every time you trot out one of these dogmatic little exercises in delusion, you really do more to demonstrate your own lack of capability than I ever could by debating you. You seriously do suffer from Trump levels of self-delusion.
There aren't enough pots, nor kettles, in the world for that little gem. I'll leave this here, because it's so supremely relevant:
'Honestly Awareness, every time you trot out one of these dogmatic little exercises in delusion, you really do more to demonstrate your own lack of capability than I ever could by debating you. You seriously do suffer from Trump levels of self-delusion.'
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