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Awareness -> RE: Feminists want equality, except when paying for dates (8/3/2016 9:16:56 AM)
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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
No. They do not. Feminism is an ideology founded upon a set of beliefs including - but not limited to - patriarchy theory. A feminist who doesn't subscribe to patriarchy theory isn't a feminist because without it, there is no underlying justification for the demonisation of men.
Look, I'm sorry - but that really is balls, Awareness. No Peon, it's not. Feminist dogma has a number of underlying themes. If you actually understood anything about the history of feminism, you'd understand the impact of those themes upon the social and legislative activism of feminist advocates today. Unfortunately, your knowledge of feminism is idiotic dogma inculcated into you by the same kind of woeful "gender studies" course which sees new feminists mocked for their naivete. It's very clear to me that you have not progressed beyond this point and understand little of what you're spouting.
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It's *always* been easy enough for you just to google this stuff, but you've absolutely refused, ever, to do it. The result is that your idea of what feminism is, is a half-baked, crazed mixture of RM's type of foaming propaganda and your own prejudices. For a start, feminism isn't even the hierarchical entity that you appear to imagine it to be. There isn't an intelligentsia at the top that rules what all feminists think. Jesus, A. You talk about it like feminists are the Khmer Rouge in bras ruled by some Pol Pot in a wig and make up. It's nutty. Codswallop. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. You just like to pretend you do. It's pathetic.
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Right, this is now using up the last of my patience with you. I've met some of the most influential brains in the world. Internationally-known professors, of all sorts of subjects. They've have every possible reason to feel superior to the people they're talking to (myself very much included) but none of them has ever, to anybody I've seen, felt the need to belittle him or her. Appeal to authority. Another logical fallacy you've attempted to use - in your laughable attempts at debate - time and time again. The problem here Peon is that your entire modus operandi is to claim authority and then attempt to belittle people who disagree. Unfortunately, you cannot argue for shit and so your usual tactic of arrogance and condescension simply doesn't work when confronted by someone who can actually argue.
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You, on the other hand, do it like it's a deep-rooted compulsion. And I'm beginning to suspect why: it's necessary for the notions of masculinity, dominance, hierarchy and much else that you've cobbled together over the years. There's the Alpha at the top - yourself, natch - the lesser dom males who go around being all sensitive and stuff, then there are the females who can *never* be dominant, the sub females who know their place if they're 'truly feminine' .... And then there are the sub males - who are just deranged. Peon, your attempts at pop-psychology, like your attempts at argument, are the demented ravings of an adolescent entering puberty who's suddenly angry with the world. Don't worry lad, it'll all make sense when you grow up.
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Awareness. Please try to get this: You're not going to be able to dominate anyone other than your partner, and even then only so long as she likes it. Awwww, Peon. Dominant men really do make you feel inferior. Christ lad, you reek of it.
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Strewth. If one straw man doesn't work, throw a bigger straw man after it, eh? A feminist can decide that she wants to go to the gym in order to get fit and muscular (nope, of course I didn't say 'thin', as you imply). Or she can learn to love her body as it is. Those are just two of the multiplicity of ideas that she can choose to follow. Just the same as men, who can choose any one of the notions that are available to *them* - which, of course, can be pretty much the same, anyway, because feminists can also be male. Don't try and back out now Peon. You clearly said that feminists go to the gym because only by doing so can they gain the attractive partners they deserve. You filthy patriarchal oppressor.
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That is what gender equality implies, A. That is why gender equality is so central to feminism. If you don't get this, you'll only ever be talking at best about the periphery of it rather than core of it. No. It doesn't. Christ, you're thick as pig shit.
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OK, my most profound apologies, then. Feminists are full of hatred for men and they're all losers, but they don't actually want to take anything that 'properly belongs to men'. A subtle difference, but I see now that it's an important one to you. Still incorrect. Feminism is an ideology for losers and a large proportion of feminists have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to men. Keep it up, you'll get it eventually.
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Drivel. And again, in straw man territory. Feminists believe in equality and freedom. For fuck's sake you mental midget, FREEDOM is not unique to feminism and has absolutely nothing to do with their ideology. In fact, feminists demonstrably DO NOT believe in freedom since they character assassinate women who don't believe as they do by claiming they suffer from "internalised misogyny". Not only is freedom not a core plank in feminist theory, but feminists damn well do not believe in women's freedom to NOT be a feminist.
Honestly, you spout utter bullshit and have no answer when it's held up to your face and the absolutely falsehood of your claims is pointed out to you.
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
No, it's just something for which you don't have an answer. Because you're not very good at the arguing thing. And I think you'll find most people believe in freedom. That has nothing to do with feminism, although it's curious you're now trying to claim feminism is somehow responsible for democracy.
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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Yep ... right. Step-back time.
Obviously, I've never claimed that feminism is somehow responsible for democracy - I think you just picked that out of your hat. And yes, correct, most people believe in freedom. Feminists did not invent the notion of freedom, nor that of equality. What they did was *apply* those two notions to an an area of social life that had been neglected. There's pure theory, and there's applied theory. Like pure maths or applied maths. In the same way the Chartist movement in the UK struggled for votes for all men, no doubt inspired by the French Revolution's call for 'liberty, equality and fraternity'. But it hadn't occurred to them to call for votes for all *people*. You see? Theory of equality, theory of freedom - application of theory. Of course they didn't, because the right to vote was partially granted due to the past and future sacrifices of men in war. A burden which women did not carry. Which is why an female anti-suffragette movement existed out of fear that women would have to pay the same price for their vote which men did.
Of course, they didn't. They just got it for nothing. And feminism has continued to advocate for free stuff ever since.
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A feminist is someone who believes in equality of the genders, A, as I'm afraid you're simply having to get used to me reminding you. This 'conspiracy' stuff is a straw man. Peon, a little bit of predicate logic would disabuse you of this notion - if you had the wit to comprehend it.
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'If you had the wit to comprehend it'. Priceless! : ) This, from the man who cannot work out how to google the simplest outline of what feminism is, then read it and absorb it! Googling? But Peon, you claimed feminism was a dictionary definition. Why would anyone need to Google it? Are you changing your claim? Has the impossibility of finding a single individual or organisation which meets your dictionary definition finally impinged upon what can only laughingly be called "the reasoning facilities of your brain"?
I also note you completely avoided the logic part because it shreds your contention completely. And replaced it - not with argument - but with ad hominem. More evidence of your incompetence.
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... And when the belittling tactic is running thin, you inject some 'fuckings' in order to hint at how angry you are at having to explain such simple things to such inferior brains. Superb! Just your inferior brain Peon. Just yours. As I've said before, dealing with your dishonesty and inability to reason is tedious.
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If sex were just 'fucking biological', then Freud's whole enterprise would have been founded on sod all. Oh dear. You do realise Freud is widely regarded to have been wrong about almost everything, right?
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Ideas - the way people think - get in the way of what's 'fucking biological' (FB, for short, henceforth.) Thinking fucks up what's meant to be just FB. You know this yourself - that feminist thinking screws up sex. Assuming that's true - do you imagine that feminist thinking is the *only* thinking that screws up sex? I didn't say that. However your contention that the default state for a woman in a prosperous western society is to be unable to enjoy sex without the 'liberation' you claim feminism brings is ludicrous on the face of it and suffers from a dearth of evidence to confirm it. You're engaging in utterly idiotic speculation based upon your religious belief in feminism.
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People have to fight fire with fire. One of the things that feminism discovered was that there was a really powerful force that stops women enjoying sex because 'enjoying sex' is, somehow, something that they never even expected to enjoy. Enjoyment of sex was somehow 'not on offer' to them. To put it another way: they'd submitted *so much* that that submitted to not enjoying sex. Oh really? Feminism 'discovered' this? Citations please. And if you include Dworkin or Mckinnon I will fucking laugh at you.
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Unless a woman can grab just enough sense of her freedom (or has it to start with), and her equal right to enjoy sex - in other words, some minimal dose of feminism - then, yes, she can't be a willing sexual submissive. That's paradoxical, sure ... but it's essential to what we all do here nonetheless, isn't it? To be a willing sexual submissive, you need a good, strong sense of that 'willing' bit, don't you? Utter bilge. You have no evidence to support this, this is just a fairy tale of yours to prop up your religious belief in feminism. Good grief.
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Yes, a straw man. Again, they can choose to masturbate, they can choose to find a man, or another woman. They can do any of those things, as can men, equally. They have a choice, equal to that of men, to go for whatever works for them. They can take this outlook, or that outlook. Come on A, stop being obtuse and pulling my plonker. You must have known that this was the point I was making. You were contending that feminism frees women to go to the gym so they can be attractive to men. It boggles the mind that you thought this contention was anything other than an own goal on your part.
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
A feminist is somebody who believes in equality of the genders, A. Remember my saying that, at all, in the past? I remember you saying that, but unfortunately for you, I've already exposed your logic deficiencies. Feminists believe in equality of the sexes. It does not therefore follow that anybody who believes in equality of the sexes is a feminist. That's an elementary logic error Peon and if you actually taught Political Science you would know that.
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Nnnyessss ... Where did you look up your little bit about logic, A? Did you look at the Wiki piece but - baffled - when on to something else? You need to go back to it. I mean, hell, can't you read your own stuff back and not see that it's senseless? Oh Peon. If you actually had any justification for that statement you would demonstrate where my logic was faulty. You poor boy.
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Look, A ... I know plenty of self-taught people - and they've been brilliant. However, the best of them never forgets the old line, 'the self-taught man was taught by an idiot'. The old line? Where does this "old line" come from, beyond the desperation of your own mind? The line you MIGHT be misquoting is: "A physician who treats himself has a fool for a patient" or perhaps "He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master." - a quote from noted drug addict and alcoholic Hunter S. Thompson.
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You don't know what it is that you don't know. That's why people need someone other than themselves to teach them at times. Not me, though - I mean, let's face it, it's not as if you're paying me, is it? Why would an autodidact care about your inferior ability to learn Peon? Honestly, it's times like this that I despair at the paucity of your reasoning facilities and the utter tedium of correcting the misapprehensions caused by your exceptionally narrow view of the world.
We swim amongst a sea of information greater than any in recorded human history. The teachings of philosophers, mathematicians, artists, political figures and scientists are readily available to anyone within reach of a library, a computer or a cell phone. The University model is being revolutionised by distance learning and en-masse many-to-one lecture models of Kahn academy, Academic Earth and Coursera. The ability for everyone to educate themselves has never been greater and you - with your retreat into the safety of British academia - run around disparaging self-learning?
You. Are. Pathetic.
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I'll leave this here, because it's so supremely relevant: Ye Gods, you can't even construct your own insults. You really are someone limited to regurgitating the efforts of others, aren't you. No wonder you're jealous of people who can actually learn.
Once again, I'll leave this here, because it's so supremely relevant.
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
Honestly Peon, every time you trot out one of these dogmatic little exercises in delusion, you really do more to demonstrate your own lack of capability than I ever could by debating you. You seriously do suffer from Trump levels of self-delusion.
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