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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 1:46:45 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Please don’t give me “Muslims aren’t a race, therefore I can’t be racist”
Bollocks

When chinese muslims exists. I can't be racist. They gotta figure another word for it. I am religioncist maybe!

quote:

Black people aren’t race and neither are white people but Jewish people are a race…right?

To me, black/white/Jew, are all races. You know what does a race mean? A race means you cannot change what you are. Like I can never change the fact that I am chinese.

But whether you are a Muslim, a christian, a buddhist, a pagan, whatever, you can change what you are. You can choose not to be muslim, christian, buddhist or pagan anymore. It's just an ideology, like choosing a political party. I mean, Hillary started off as a Republican. Then she changed her ideology and decided to switch to Democrat. Religion is like political affiliation. There is no difference from a Religion Ideology, a Nazi Ideology, and a Political group Ideology. If you identify yourself as part of these groups, you are subscribing to their ideology. And that can change, You have a choice to change it.

Race is something you cannot change.

I want people to leave Islam. As simple as that, and there is nothing wrong in encouraging people to leave their religion.



According to the Torah, a Jew is someone who was born to a Jewish mother, or someone who converts according to Jewish law. If I can convert to Judaism, how can it be a race in anything but name only? Why am I considered a Jew because my grandmother was Jewish whilst my husbands father was a Jew and his grandparents on his dads side were Jews but he isn't considered a Jew, whilst his daughter is How does that make it a race?


< Message edited by MariaB -- 8/12/2016 1:48:07 AM >


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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 1:58:37 AM   
DaddySatyr


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There are only three races of humans, anthropologically speaking. There are three different types of skeletal structures that show the largest variation in the skulls. They vary enough to be considered a different "breed" (if we were dogs) or race:

Caucasoid

Negroid

Mongoloid



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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 5:34:42 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


There are only three races of humans, anthropologically speaking. There are three different types of skeletal structures that show the largest variation in the skulls. They vary enough to be considered a different "breed" (if we were dogs) or race:

Caucasoid

Negroid

Mongoloid



Michael



So is an Arab a negroid or a caucasoid ? and what is an aborigany or a native Indian?

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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 5:45:47 AM   
WhoreMods


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I don't have a textbook to hand to check, but I'm pretty sure that's an eighteenth century classification he's using that's been supplanted in modern anthropology.

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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 9:05:13 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

A religion is not a race. It's an ideology that is adopted by any race!



Please don’t give me “Muslims aren’t a race, therefore I can’t be racist”
Bollocks
That's an incredibly simplistic viewpoint.

quote:


Black people aren’t race and neither are white people but Jewish people are a race…right?
Scientists proved long ago that race is not a reality but a myth, a socially constructed concept.
Bollocks. The definition of "race" is: "A group of sentient beings, particularly people, distinguished by common ancestry, heritage or characteristics.:

Generally speaking this refers to enthnicity or heritage. Islam doesn't qualify as Islam is an imperialistic culture derived from a religious base.

quote:


You are a cultural racist Greta. Argue all you want but you won’t change my opinion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/muslims-are-not-a-race_b_8591660.html

Greta is a cultural realist. Part of the problem I have is with people who are too stupid to understand what is going on who then turn around and accuse others of bigotry.

I'll make this simple, because I'm sick to death of people's idiocy. Islam and the West are engaged in cultural warfare. The confrontation between the most violent imperialist culture the world has ever seen and the greatest cultural imperialist the world has ever seen (Western lifestyle seduces like no other) was inevitable.

Islam attempts to inoculate its people against seduction by the West with varying degrees of success. Islam's highly structured lifestyle appeals to those people who lack purpose and particularly those without a strong will.

Islam is like a weed. If you don't stamp it out whenever it appears in your society, it WILL choke the life out of your culture. Anyone who's even made a passing attempt to study the history of Islam knows this.

Opposition to a violent, theocratic culture which is inimical to the foundations of freedom and democracy which are fundamental to Western societies is inherently rational - and it's only complete fucking morons who have no fucking idea of what is happening in the world around them who label such people as "bigots".


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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 9:20:23 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Please don’t give me “Muslims aren’t a race, therefore I can’t be racist”
Bollocks

When chinese muslims exists. I can't be racist. They gotta figure another word for it. I am religioncist maybe!

quote:

Black people aren’t race and neither are white people but Jewish people are a race…right?

To me, black/white/Jew, are all races. You know what does a race mean? A race means you cannot change what you are. Like I can never change the fact that I am chinese.

But whether you are a Muslim, a christian, a buddhist, a pagan, whatever, you can change what you are. You can choose not to be muslim, christian, buddhist or pagan anymore. It's just an ideology, like choosing a political party. I mean, Hillary started off as a Republican. Then she changed her ideology and decided to switch to Democrat. Religion is like political affiliation. There is no difference from a Religion Ideology, a Nazi Ideology, and a Political group Ideology. If you identify yourself as part of these groups, you are subscribing to their ideology. And that can change, You have a choice to change it.

Race is something you cannot change.

I want people to leave Islam. As simple as that, and there is nothing wrong in encouraging people to leave their religion.






that was pretty good greta, but nazi is part of political leaving political and religious. religious is 'your' moral compass generally, does not need a group label that you use for your personal governance and well being, (morals). While political is the way you want to to see the world around you. Liberty is your ability to exercise your religion in a public venue without reprisal. You have the inherent right to exercise your religion though despotic gubblemints will not allow it beyond suckering you in to consenting to their governance, a bait and switch operation, and you do not have a right to expect others to exercise your politics, or prevent them from exercising their religion restricted their own regardless if you think its despicable, making rules to force others to exercise your religion would now become political. That said what the us tried to do is feed us pipe dreams promoting a neutral middle ground of no religion in politics and before the ink was dry established their own religion that can among other things be described as human secularism.




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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 9:34:10 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


Christian Cake Maker has the rights to refuse to serve cake to gay people since they own their own businesses and have the right to set their own policies.



Wrong. It is against the law to discriminate based on race, religion, sex or sexual orientation. The exception would be if they specifically label themselves as a Christian based company on legal paperwork and advertising. Again, once they have made a cake for a Non-Christian customer - they have already set the precedence that it's not based on Christianity.

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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 10:11:21 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

I'll make this simple, because I'm sick to death of people's idiocy. Islam and the West are engaged in cultural warfare. The confrontation between the most violent imperialist culture the world has ever seen and the greatest cultural imperialist the world has ever seen (Western lifestyle seduces like no other) was inevitable.

Islam attempts to inoculate its people against seduction by the West with varying degrees of success. Islam's highly structured lifestyle appeals to those people who lack purpose and particularly those without a strong will.

Islam is like a weed. If you don't stamp it out whenever it appears in your society, it WILL choke the life out of your culture. Anyone who's even made a passing attempt to study the history of Islam knows this.

Opposition to a violent, theocratic culture which is inimical to the foundations of freedom and democracy which are fundamental to Western societies is inherently rational - and it's only complete fucking morons who have no fucking idea of what is happening in the world around them who label such people as "bigots".


This is broadly the thesis that Edward Goldsmith expounded in 'The Clash of Civilizations' in 1993. Since then there have been multiple criticisms, e.g.:

"Huntington has fallen under the stern critique of various academic writers, who have either empirically, historically, logically, or ideologically challenged his claims (Fox, 2005; Mungiu Pippidi & Mindruta, 2002; Henderson & Tucker, 2001; Russett, Oneal, & Cox, 2000; Harvey, 2000).[14][15][16][17] In an article explicitly referring to Huntington, scholar Amartya Sen (1999) argues that "diversity is a feature of most cultures in the world. Western civilization is no exception. The practice of democracy that has won out in the modern West is largely a result of a consensus that has emerged since the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution, and particularly in the last century or so. To read in this a historical commitment of the West—over the millennia—to democracy, and then to contrast it with non-Western traditions (treating each as monolithic) would be a great mistake" (p. 16).[18]

In his 2003 book Terror and Liberalism, Paul Berman argues that distinct cultural boundaries do not exist in the present day. He argues there is no "Islamic civilization" nor a "Western civilization", and that the evidence for a civilization clash is not convincing, especially when considering relationships such as that between the United States and Saudi Arabia. In addition, he cites the fact that many Islamic extremists spent a significant amount of time living and/or studying in the Western world. According to Berman, conflict arises because of philosophical beliefs various groups share (or do not share), regardless of cultural or religious identity.[19]

Edward Said issued a response to Huntington's thesis in his 2001 article, "The Clash of Ignorance".[20] Said argues that Huntington's categorization of the world's fixed "civilizations" omits the dynamic interdependency and interaction of culture. A longtime critic of the Huntingtonian paradigm, and an outspoken proponent of Arab issues, Edward Said (2004) also argues that the clash of civilizations thesis is an example of "the purest invidious racism, a sort of parody of Hitlerian science directed today against Arabs and Muslims" (p. 293).[21]

Noam Chomsky has criticized the concept of the clash of civilizations as just being a new justification for the United States "for any atrocities that they wanted to carry out", which was required after the Cold War as the Soviet Union was no longer a viable threat.[22]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 8/12/2016 10:13:19 AM >


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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 12:08:29 PM   
Awareness


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First off, Islam has had no comparative period of enlightenment - the same violent, imperialistic competitive impulses which have driven Muslims to kill each other for over a thousand years have survived intact, unmoderated by any secular influences. Islam remains a violent, theocratic imperialist which is fundamentally incompatible with more secular cultures - particularly those whose fundamental structure protects minorities. IE: The American Republic.

I'll repeat - once again - for clarity: Over one hundred million people live in Islamic societies where gay sex is rewarded with the death penalty. If you seriously think a violent, bigoted death-cult is compatible with Western values, then you've been drinking the Kool-Aid and not paying attention to what's actually happening in the world.

One only has to observe the rapid Islamic radicalisation which occurs in prisons to realise that there is something psychologically insidious about Islam which Western societies need to understand and counter. There's evidence to suggest the highly structured regimen of proscription and restrictions exploits our native psychology, which is one of the reasons why Islam is such a dangerous creed.

Paul Bergman might disagree, but then again he argues that you need to engage in preemptive war and actively intervene in Islamic countries to root out extremists which postulates a hitherto-undreamed of level of cooperation between Western societies and those Islamic countries harbouring terrrorists, so he seems both naive AND hawkish. His assertion of cultural interdependence and osmosis is nonsense - interdependence between nations has always been based upon trade, not cultural exchange.

Said was an anti-Western, anti-Israeli bigot from way back. I'm hardly going to take his criticism seriously given his own history of misrepresenting the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Chomsky's observations on corporatisation are relevant, but his bias against American hegemony is well-known. In Chomsky's mind, the competitive survival instinct of civilisations is invalid for America, but perfectly justified for everyone else. He ignores the interventions of other cultures and presumably has absolutely no problem with China's posturing over the South China Sea. Then again, he's a socialist who despises democracy, so that's hardly surprising.

All in all, criticism can be valid, but it has to be backed up by a cogent argument rather than just posturing. I don't think you understand. I would LOVE to think that Western societies could reach an accommodation with Islam which would reduce the friction between the two cultures. However the preponderance of historical evidence suggests that - as a culture - Islamic is inherently imperialistic, irredeemably violent and intrinsically theocratic. I cannot see a way forward between a culture that backward and barbaric and a Western secular tradition which is at least nominally committed to freedom and human rights.

Refusing to see Islam clearly - and seeing it only for what you want it to be - is a dangerous blindness which inhibits the ability to see Islamic conflicts with Western societies for what they are.



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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 1:12:24 PM   
thompsonx


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FR
This kind of Muslim problems is not uncommon in my country. Can't serve alcohol, can't touch pork, or even touch a plate that has pork in it.

We went through this shit once before and it was shown that you are a pathalogical liar.
I posted the officil singapore laws concerning this.





So waitressing or waitering in most restaurants would be a problem. Like they cannot work in subways as there is BLT. (Exactly why UK Subways eliminate bacon from their menu,


You are making shit up again arent you? That never happened. The corporation gave permission to some franchisees to modify their menue to fit their clientel. The corporation did not make the menu modifications the franchisee did.
Jesus you are phoquing stupd.



so Muslims can work in them.)

So they screaming job discrimination against them, and insist that all these organizations eliminate serving pork and alcohol, so that, they can get jobs.

That is only happening in your mind.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.



That these jobs intentionally have anti-Islam elements in them, so they cannot take on the jobs.

They cry that it's against their religion to touch alcohol or pork. So it's not anything they can do about. But they will say, it's not necessary for any of these organizations to have alcohol or pork on their menu.


Where have they said that? Only you have put that lie to print.


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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 1:15:09 PM   
PeonForHer


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What about Amartya Sen? You don't mention him at all. Presumably you disagree with him, too?

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 8/12/2016 1:20:41 PM >


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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 1:15:20 PM   
thompsonx


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In my country, MacDonalds, Burger King and KFC and Pizzahut is 100% halal. Imagine I can't get a pork ham pizza at pizza hut here!


You are making shit up again ain't you? I have posted the official websites of those concerns and they all say you are a liar.

Thanks to Muslims. They complained that they can't work there if there is pork, so they eliminated pork so that they can give jobs to Muslims. Like seriously..., 13% of the population don't eat or touch pork, and the 70% culturally pork lovers have to be deprived of pork.


Pork has been shown to be easily available in that third world shithole called singapore.

The only burger joint I can get real pork bacon in my burger in is Carl's Jr! Last one standing! I mean, nothing beats a nice burger with cheese, real bacon in it!


You have mentioned on more than one occasion that you are always fighting the battle of the 'blulge''
Perhaps that is the cause?


I literally got to bring my own bacon to put inside a damn macdonalds cheese burger now!

I do love fast food and as a kid, I used to have everything with real bacon in it! To grow up and watch it all taken away.

What is most miserable is, all the salad bars, that serve ceasar salad has no bacon to go with it!!!! Because they are halal too! And I carry my own jar of real bacon bits to dump into my ceasar salad, as what's a ceasar salad without bacon! Pasta places that claim they serve carbonara pasta serve them without bacon! WTF is a carbonara pasta without bacon? That's a halal carbonara pasta!



So you show your disrespect for the law by contaminating the dishes that the scullery folk must deal with.


My Minister is right each race sacrifice something important to them. We have to give up pork in our diet for them 13% minority folks!

Get a book and look up the meaning of the word race.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.


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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 1:16:38 PM   
thompsonx


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Mikey just called you a mongoloid.

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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 1:20:39 PM   
thompsonx


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First off, Islam has had no comparative period of enlightenment -

"In mathematics they contributed and invented the present arithmetical decimal system and the fundamental operations connected with it: addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, exponentiation, and extracting the root.
They also introduced the 'zero' concept to the world."

Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 1:22:01 PM   
thompsonx


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200 out of 2000 outlets, which is 10% of UK subways is halal now.

What percentage of the uk population is muslim?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.


I wonder where they were sticking these 200 outlets.


A little thought would make it clear that they would be where there was a clietel for them.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.


Let me paint a realistic scenerio too. Which is pretty much what happened in my country.

You live in idaho timmy.

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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 1:25:04 PM   
NorthernGent1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Refusing to see Islam clearly - and seeing it only for what you want it to be - is a dangerous blindness which inhibits the ability to see Islamic conflicts with Western societies for what they are.



Assuming Islam is such an intolerant, violent religion then why is it that I've never personally had any problem with any muslim.

And, I'm willing to bet that at least 99% of the posters on this board have also had no such problem.

Which begs the question: why is that, considering the muslim propensity to kill anything that moves?

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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 2:40:26 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Refusing to see Islam clearly - and seeing it only for what you want it to be - is a dangerous blindness which inhibits the ability to see Islamic conflicts with Western societies for what they are.



Assuming Islam is such an intolerant, violent religion then why is it that I've never personally had any problem with any muslim.
Your personal experience is statistically insignificant.


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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 2:42:03 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Awareness

First off, Islam has had no comparative period of enlightenment -

"In mathematics they contributed and invented the present arithmetical decimal system and the fundamental operations connected with it: addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, exponentiation, and extracting the root.
They also introduced the 'zero' concept to the world."

Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

You don't know what The Enlightement was, do you. If you did, you wouldn't be making a point which has no bearing on what I said.

Also, the concept of zero was invented by an Indian, not a Muslim.


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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 4:16:53 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Arent you the guy that once upon a time disclosed that you are a practicing attorney?

No.

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RE: New Front in the Battle for Religious Freedom - 8/12/2016 5:02:36 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
According to the Torah, a Jew is someone who was born to a Jewish mother, or someone who converts according to Jewish law. If I can convert to Judaism, how can it be a race in anything but name only? Why am I considered a Jew because my grandmother was Jewish whilst my husbands father was a Jew and his grandparents on his dads side were Jews but he isn't considered a Jew, whilst his daughter is How does that make it a race?

There is Jew the Religion. And Jew the race. The big problem is, Jews use the same word for people who are ethically Jew, as well as people who choose to worship Judaism.

They both use the same word. So you can be Jew by race, but not practice Judaism. You could be a Jew Muslims, a Jew Pagan, a Jew Christian, a Jew Buddhist!

I mean, if I was a chinese who practices Judaism by choice, then I'm gonna be a Chinese Jew! Not ethically Jew, but simply someone who chooses to follow Judaism by choice.

There is no such thing as "ethically" Muslim. And I believe most Muslims aren't even Muslims in the history of whatever population races they came from.

Malays weren't Muslims initially. Persians weren't Muslims initially. HELL the whole of Meccans were Pagans and not even Muslims initially. They were spread by force. Islam did not exist until Muhammad existed. Islam is simply a historical a war lord's ideology that people are following today.Worst of all, this warlord *thinks* Angel Gabriel was talking to him directly and giving him the correct version of Christianity. So the entire group of people who follow Islam are simply following the hallucination of one individual.

Who the hell is ethically Muslim? Nobody!




< Message edited by Greta75 -- 8/12/2016 5:09:33 PM >

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