RE: Milwaukee Burning

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Kirata -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 7:33:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: What I do believe is that change must come from within the black communities where the real problem exists. Otherwise most problems are within the families and their attitudes. They must start taking responsibility for not only themselves and their children but their neighbors and their neighborhoods. That is "white thinking" and ignoring realities, Butch. See my reply to Bama at post 327. "White" thinking? In my reading on the subject, two factors that are known to correlate with success in life are (1) stable bonded families that have their children's respect and that teach them to value education, perseverance and hard work, and (2) the quality of a child's peer relationships. Social relationships with youth that have behavior problems or that denigrate the value of education, perseverance and hard work, can have a profoundly negative effect on a child's performance in school and chances for later success, even in spite of parents' best efforts. It doesn't seem to me that saying so is "white" thinking any more than ignoring those realities constitutes "black" thinking. They're just realities. K.

thompsonx -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 7:36:11 PM)
ORIGINAL: Kirata "White" thinking? In my reading on the subject, two factors that are known to correlate with success in life are (1) stable bonded families that have their children's respect and that teach them to value education, perseverance and hard work, and (2) the quality of a child's peer relationships. Social relationships with youth that have behavior problems or that denigrate the value of education, perseverance and hard work, can have a profoundly negative effect on a child's performance in school and chances for later success, even in spite of parents' best efforts. How well does bill gates fit that metric?

BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 7:38:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: What I do believe is that change must come from within the black communities where the real problem exists. Otherwise most problems are within the families and their attitudes. They must start taking responsibility for not only themselves and their children but their neighbors and their neighborhoods. That is "white thinking" and ignoring realities, Butch. See my reply to Bama at post 327. "White" thinking? In my reading on the subject, two factors that are known to correlate with success in life are (1) stable bonded families that have their children's respect and that teach them to value education, perseverance and hard work, and (2) the quality of a child's peer relationships. Social relationships with youth that have behavior problems or that denigrate the value of education, perseverance and hard work, can have a profoundly negative effect on a child's performance in school and chances for later success, even in spite of parents' best efforts. It doesn't seem to me that saying so is "white" thinking any more than ignoring those realities constitutes "black" thinking. They're just realities. K. And he wonders why I think he is a racist.

Aylee -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 7:40:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: What I do believe is that change must come from within the black communities where the real problem exists. Otherwise most problems are within the families and their attitudes. They must start taking responsibility for not only themselves and their children but their neighbors and their neighborhoods. That is "white thinking" and ignoring realities, Butch. See my reply to Bama at post 327. "White" thinking? In my reading on the subject, two factors that are known to correlate with success in life are (1) stable bonded families that have their children's respect and that teach them to value education, perseverance and hard work, and (2) the quality of a child's peer relationships. Social relationships with youth that have behavior problems or that denigrate the value of education, perseverance and hard work, can have a profoundly negative effect on a child's performance in school and chances for later success, even in spite of parents' best efforts. It doesn't seem to me that saying so is "white" thinking any more than ignoring those realities constitutes "black" thinking. They're just realities. K. The soft bigotry of low expectations.

BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 8:34:59 PM)
FR The veriy idea that all people of a given etnic or racial group think, act, and feel the same is the essience of racism. To say that there is such a thing as black thinking the key element of Klan ideology. To say that there is such a thing as white thinking is just as bad. To assume that because I live in a predomenately black neighborhood that is by far the most crime ridden part of town that all black people are criminals and thugs would be racist. Not even all the black people in my neighborhood fit that description. To make any simular assumption about white people is just as bad.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 8:52:52 PM)
*EVERYTHING* is the white *man's* fault. Everything. The Brookings Institute (That bastion of far-right thought) has found: "If you want to NOT be permanently poor in the U.S., there's only three things you have to do: 1) Graduate High School 2) Get a Job 3) Don't get pregnant until after you're married. I will admit that given the current economy sucking like a two-dollar whore on rent day, #2 might be a bit of a challenge, but #1 and #3 are easily solvable: 1) White people have to stop preventing black people from graduating High School. We have to give up more of our hard-earned income to people who DON'T want to assimilate. 3) White people have to stop denying black women access to abortion on demand. It's that simple. Remember: Black Lives Matter (unless you get pregnant and aren't looking for a bump in your welfare check). Michael

Termyn8or -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 9:04:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: What I do believe is that change must come from within the black communities where the real problem exists. Otherwise most problems are within the families and their attitudes. They must start taking responsibility for not only themselves and their children but their neighbors and their neighborhoods. That is "white thinking" and ignoring realities, Butch. See my reply to Bama at post 327. "White" thinking? In my reading on the subject, two factors that are known to correlate with success in life are (1) stable bonded families that have their children's respect and that teach them to value education, perseverance and hard work, and (2) the quality of a child's peer relationships. Social relationships with youth that have behavior problems or that denigrate the value of education, perseverance and hard work, can have a profoundly negative effect on a child's performance in school and chances for later success, even in spite of parents' best efforts. It doesn't seem to me that saying so is "white" thinking any more than ignoring those realities constitutes "black" thinking. They're just realities. K. You put that wrong, it makes you look bigoted and I an fairly sure you are not. You should have said "right thinking". I understand what you mean. The basic family unit as it was was the best environment in which to raise kids. As much as I am against religion, it also had its place in there. It is not so much a matter of faith but community unity. Today, we should have community meetings, sort of like church. Like when the sermon was over people talked. Word got around about a bad cop or councilman or whatever, and shit could be made to happen because these groups could foment solidarity among the People. If I had a shit ton of money I would foster these things. I would offer a free dinner and even a couple of beers or whatever you want. A church type of thing, but without religion. Some communities have them. In my old neighborhood they had them at a local bar, which had low prices and a pretty decent atmosphere. Things have changed. With more overpopulation it seems we are more alone than ever. People do not know their neighbors. Houses do not have front porches anymore. If you want change you reach out to your neighbors and treat them right. You invite them to like block parties n shit. You make friends with them. You do not call the feds and get some new legislation that they will certainly fuck up that will force integration and cause more hostilities. Forget the feds, they cannot do anything at all for you. You MIGHT get the local government to do something right, but not the feds. The locals hopefully know the community and have some idea how it is and who is pissed off at whom and why. No guarantees, but I can guarantee your congressman and senator don't. They are so far removed from your life, and any life like yours that they are useless. Right thinking, not White thinking. Other races can think just as well unless they are raised stupid, and there are plenty of Whites that way anyway. What it means to be "White" is a different story. It has nothing to do with thinking you are superior because of race, and it has nothing to do with putting down others because of race. You put down the people who deserve it no matter what they are. There are white skinned people if they moved in next door I would either burn this house or theirs to the ground. We rented to them and after a few months Dad said "buy it or get the fuck out". They were fucking the place up faster than we could fix it. Then they bought it and later their kids got taken away because just BEING THERE was considered child abuse. Liberals have fucked the place up. I got two Moms. I got two Dads. I am a boy but the teacher says I can use the girls room. I can kill someone and be doing a life sentence and get a free sex change operation. No republicans ever supported any of that bullshit. they have alot of faults, basically because the pander to the Bible belt, but liberals are no better. A fucking five year old with gender issues ? Gimme a fucking break. And that is a black mark on Obama. DIRECTLY ON OBAMA. It was not congress and it was not some supreme court justice this time, it was Obama. He lost what little respect he had with that one. If it was bars and restaurants maybe, but this is like elementary schools. Fuck that asshole. Hope and change my ass. And we did not get that either. This is one of the things that gives Trump a chance. T^T

Lucylastic -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 9:15:20 PM)
the gathering of the klan is getting raucous. go boys, go boys.

Termyn8or -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 9:19:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr *EVERYTHING* is the white *man's* fault. Everything. The Brookings Institute (That bastion of far-right thought) has found: "If you want to NOT be permanently poor in the U.S., there's only three things you have to do: 1) Graduate High School 2) Get a Job 3) Don't get pregnant until after you're married. I will admit that given the current economy sucking like a two-dollar whore on rent day, #2 might be a bit of a challenge, but #1 and #3 are easily solvable: 1) White people have to stop preventing black people from graduating High School. We have to give up more of our hard-earned income to people who DON'T want to assimilate. 3) White people have to stop denying black women access to abortion on demand. It's that simple. Remember: Black Lives Matter (unless you get pregnant and aren't looking for a bump in your welfare check). Michael Number two is the problem these days. High school is not enough, and these days neither is college. The market is so tight that Phds are applying for fast food jobs. I quit school and have better jobs than quite a few people. In fact, so do a few people I know. Not getting pregnant until married is a good one though, as long as the Husband is working and making enough to support the family. However that is not as common as it used to be. As I said I work for half what I am worth. Why ? Because it is that or do nothing. That is the market. And even though the company really can't replace me, the income I can bring in only warrants what I make. Demanding what I deserve would only price me out of a job and they simply would not do it anymore. That is the market, that is the economy. When I was making good money I was working on equipment that cost a couple grand, not no mo. So how is it for someone say in Detroit, can't read, even the service industry there is hurting because nobody has any money. There are no assembly line jobs, or even sweeping the floor. For every restaurant job comes up there are 1,000 applicants. Even landscaping, general labor, anything, there are a ton of applicants. What do you do ? Steal or deal. If you're smart and get away with it you do good and buy a car and whatever. If not you go to jail. These are what these people see as their possibilities. And they are not wrong. T^T

Termyn8or -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 9:22:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic the gathering of the klan is getting raucous. go boys, go boys. WTF ? And Klan should be capitalized. T^T

vincentML -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 9:54:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: What I do believe is that change must come from within the black communities where the real problem exists. Otherwise most problems are within the families and their attitudes. They must start taking responsibility for not only themselves and their children but their neighbors and their neighborhoods. That is "white thinking" and ignoring realities, Butch. See my reply to Bama at post 327. "White" thinking? In my reading on the subject, two factors that are known to correlate with success in life are (1) stable bonded families that have their children's respect and that teach them to value education, perseverance and hard work, and (2) the quality of a child's peer relationships. Social relationships with youth that have behavior problems or that denigrate the value of education, perseverance and hard work, can have a profoundly negative effect on a child's performance in school and chances for later success, even in spite of parents' best efforts. It doesn't seem to me that saying so is "white" thinking any more than ignoring those realities constitutes "black" thinking. They're just realities. K. Well sure, that may be true if your family is not living in a neighborhood in the lowest percentile of poverty, if you are not four times as likely to be stopped or killed by a police officer than your counterpart in predominantly white burbs, if your neighborhood is not subject to massive stop and frisk raids by the police. Yeah, that's all true. But to put the blame on the "family" in those circumstances, to blame the victims of their social and economic and racial history is not only absurd, it shows that the civic apparatus, the halls of power do not wish to assist those "families" and so blame the families for a pathology rather than the governments and corporations who have abandoned them. The pathology lies with the dominant political and corporate entities that are only focused on cost cutting, tax cutting, and profit. The wealth disparity has never been so great as it is today in America. Our physical infrastructure is crumbling, mining and manufacturing jobs have been lost, manufacturing workers in the auto parts industry are working for about $9 per hour, which is hardly a family livable wage. Automation and constantly rapidly advancing innovations in technology are requiring ever higher levels of education for fewer jobs, and kids are graduating from colleges with a ridiculous debt burden. So, as a society we are willing to spend more and more money on defense budgets and less and less to invest in our kids, black and white. You want stable families? Install community policing programs that have been developed and supported by the Justice Department. Make it possible for more small businesses to open and hire in the core cities and fringe suburbs. Provide them with tax support, affordable insurance, and whatever else it may take to rebuild the cities and fringe burbs. Show kids that there are jobs available beyond the drug and gang economy. Show kids that there are real alternatives to joining gangs. What the hell is government for but to provide a pathway to equal opportunities? There are winners and losers in this neo-liberal economy of the past four decades. To wave your arm and brush off the losers by saying it is up to the families to raise themselves by their bootstraps when they don’t have boots is the smug talk of the winners and a cop out from the social contract, the Judeo-Christian doctrine to help and support “even the least of these,” as Jesus said. So yeah, you have read studies correlating educational success to healthy families. Holy shit, that is so freakin obvious we shouldn’t need studies. We should do everything we can to promote healthy families everywhere. But, we have abandoned some with the absurd bumper sticker that it is the responsibility of families. Nope. It is a social and civic responsibility. That should be why we have governments. I am very pessimistic, however, given the conditions I cited above.

BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 10:03:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: What I do believe is that change must come from within the black communities where the real problem exists. Otherwise most problems are within the families and their attitudes. They must start taking responsibility for not only themselves and their children but their neighbors and their neighborhoods. That is "white thinking" and ignoring realities, Butch. See my reply to Bama at post 327. "White" thinking? In my reading on the subject, two factors that are known to correlate with success in life are (1) stable bonded families that have their children's respect and that teach them to value education, perseverance and hard work, and (2) the quality of a child's peer relationships. Social relationships with youth that have behavior problems or that denigrate the value of education, perseverance and hard work, can have a profoundly negative effect on a child's performance in school and chances for later success, even in spite of parents' best efforts. It doesn't seem to me that saying so is "white" thinking any more than ignoring those realities constitutes "black" thinking. They're just realities. K. Well sure, that may be true if your family is not living in a neighborhood in the lowest percentile of poverty, if you are not four times as likely to be stopped or killed by a police officer than your counterpart in predominantly white burbs, if your neighborhood is not subject to massive stop and frisk raids by the police. Yeah, that's all true. But to put the blame on the "family" in those circumstances, to blame the victims of their social and economic and racial history is not only absurd, it shows that the civic apparatus, the halls of power do not wish to assist those "families" and so blame the families for a pathology rather than the governments and corporations who have abandoned them. The pathology lies with the dominant political and corporate entities that are only focused on cost cutting, tax cutting, and profit. The wealth disparity has never been so great as it is today in America. Our physical infrastructure is crumbling, mining and manufacturing jobs have been lost, manufacturing workers in the auto parts industry are working for about $9 per hour, which is hardly a family livable wage. Automation and constantly rapidly advancing innovations in technology are requiring ever higher levels of education for fewer jobs, and kids are graduating from colleges with a ridiculous debt burden. So, as a society we are willing to spend more and more money on defense budgets and less and less to invest in our kids, black and white. You want stable families? Install community policing programs that have been developed and supported by the Justice Department. Make it possible for more small businesses to open and hire in the core cities and fringe suburbs. Provide them with tax support, affordable insurance, and whatever else it may take to rebuild the cities and fringe burbs. Show kids that there are jobs available beyond the drug and gang economy. Show kids that there are real alternatives to joining gangs. What the hell is government for but to provide a pathway to equal opportunities? There are winners and losers in this neo-liberal economy of the past four decades. To wave your arm and brush off the losers by saying it is up to the families to raise themselves by their bootstraps when they don’t have boots is the smug talk of the winners and a cop out from the social contract, the Judeo-Christian doctrine to help and support “even the least of these,” as Jesus said. So yeah, you have read studies correlating educational success to healthy families. Holy shit, that is so freakin obvious we shouldn’t need studies. We should do everything we can to promote healthy families everywhere. But, we have abandoned some with the absurd bumper sticker that it is the responsibility of families. Nope. It is a social and civic responsibility. That should be why we have governments. I am very pessimistic, however, given the conditions I cited above. You want to stop the police from stopping you 4x as often as white people, stop commiting murfer at 6 times the rate as white people. But we know that it is only because of institutional racism that blacks have such a high srime rate. These things followed the systematic albeit unintended(I hope) destruction of (primarily black) families. Fix the families and most of this go away.

vincentML -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 10:03:55 PM)
quote: To assume that because I live in a predomenately black neighborhood that is by far the most crime ridden part of town that all black people are criminals and thugs would be racist. What makes you think it is all about you, Bama? Nobody gives a fuck about what college you went to, or what neighborhood you live in, or which hand you jerk off with. Try to think outside your own small, insignificant piece of the universe.

Kirata -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 10:08:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: What I do believe is that change must come from within the black communities where the real problem exists. Otherwise most problems are within the families and their attitudes. They must start taking responsibility for not only themselves and their children but their neighbors and their neighborhoods. That is "white thinking" and ignoring realities, Butch. See my reply to Bama at post 327. "White" thinking? In my reading on the subject, two factors that are known to correlate with success in life are (1) stable bonded families that have their children's respect and that teach them to value education, perseverance and hard work, and (2) the quality of a child's peer relationships. Social relationships with youth that have behavior problems or that denigrate the value of education, perseverance and hard work, can have a profoundly negative effect on a child's performance in school and chances for later success, even in spite of parents' best efforts. It doesn't seem to me that saying so is "white" thinking any more than ignoring those realities constitutes "black" thinking. They're just realities. to put the blame on the "family" in those circumstances, to blame the victims of their social and economic and racial history... There is nothing in my post that "blames" anybody. Blame is your game. K.

Kirata -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 10:29:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Try to think outside your own small, insignificant piece of the universe. Maybe you should just try to think, period. Critical race theory is, itself, inherently racist. K.

BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 10:44:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: To assume that because I live in a predomenately black neighborhood that is by far the most crime ridden part of town that all black people are criminals and thugs would be racist. What makes you think it is all about you, Bama? Nobody gives a fuck about what college you went to, or what neighborhood you live in, or which hand you jerk off with. Try to think outside your own small, insignificant piece of the universe. You are the only person who seems to think that this in any way meant it was about me. It was about people believing stereotypes. You do, I don't. Nythe way I live in the kind of neighborhood you talked about in your last post so by your word I am at least as qualified as you are to talk about this. Once again you resort to I am white so my view doesn't count.

Chaska -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/22/2016 12:38:04 AM)
Breaking Out of Black and White Thinking

thompsonx -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/22/2016 3:28:54 AM)
ORIGINAL: Termyn8or And Klan should be capitalized. Do you think asshole should also be capitalized?

thompsonx -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/22/2016 3:34:02 AM)
ORIGINAL: BamaD These things followed the systematic albeit unintended(I hope) destruction of (primarily black) families. Fix the families and most of this go away. Everytime you hit enter you prove again what a fool you are. If you sell the children of a family and the parents of a family to different owers how can the result be unintended? Jeus you are phoquing stupid.

thompsonx -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/22/2016 3:40:46 AM)
ORIGINAL: Kirata Maybe you should just try to think, period. Critical race theory is, itself, inherently racist. You should try to think period. Racists seldom are proud of their bigotry and often try to cloak it in rhetoric and assume that no one will notice the disingenousness of it.

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