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vincentML -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 5:55:48 PM)

quote:

If my skin were to suddenly turn black I would think no differently...


Probably, if the transition were as sudden as you say, but if you grew up black in a different culture and with the burden of a history of slavery, segregation, discrimination, prejudice, and the implicit racist claim that you belonged to an inferior group, I think your thinking would be quite different.

quote:

I do agree that humans will discriminate by groups according to any difference. It can be language...skin color...sexual orientation...nationality... social mores...hell tennis shoe color.


Discrimination is only one component of white racism in America, Butch. Let me pass this on to you. Contrary to what others on here may think, i am not making this shit up.

Today, some scholars of racism prefer to use the concept in the plural racisms to emphasize its many different forms that do not easily fall under a single definition and that different forms have characterized different historical periods and geographical areas.[17]

Garner (2009: p. 11) summarizes different existing definitions of racism and identifies three common elements contained in those definitions of racism.

First, a historical, hierarchical power relationship between groups;

second, a set of ideas (an ideology) about racial differences;

and, third, discriminatory actions (practices).
[3]

[SNIPS]

So-called "white racism" focuses on societies in which white populations are the majority or dominant social group. In studies of these majority white societies, the aggregate of material and cultural advantages is usually termed "white privilege".

Wellman (1993) defines racism as "culturally sanctioned beliefs, which, regardless of intentions involved, defend the advantages whites have because of the subordinated position of racial minorities".[29] In both sociology and economics, the outcomes of racist actions are often measured by the inequality in income, wealth, net worth, and access to other cultural resources, such as education, between racial groups.[30]


Regarding "white thinking."

Some sociologists also argue that, particularly in the West where racism is often negatively sanctioned in society, racism has changed from being a blatant to a more covert expression of racial prejudice. The "newer" (more hidden and less easily detectable) forms of racism—which can be considered as embedded in social processes and structures—are more difficult to explore as well as challenge. It has been suggested that, while in many countries overt or explicit racism has become increasingly taboo, even in those who display egalitarian explicit attitudes, an implicit or aversive racism is still maintained subconsciously.[33]

I would guess that is what the author of the Salon article meant by "white thinking."

source

So, we disagree, Butch. After researching this issue regarding anger and frustration in black neighborhoods, i believe people are not getting the respect they desire from local police. The activities of some police are the cause of the problem. It is ironic and sad that it was members of the Dallas police who were killed by that sniper; Dallas had implemented an otherwise successful community policing program. The police were out taking selfies with the protestors before the madman opened fire.




vincentML -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 6:00:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

white" thought process


This my friend is where we disagree and why we can't agree... There is no such thing. I do agree that humans will discriminate by groups according to any difference. It can be language...skin color...sexual orientation...nationality... social mores...hell tennis shoe color. It is built into us to want those" like us" ... But within our comfort zone there is no difference in how we think. If my skin were to suddenly turn black I would think no differently...All humans want and need the same things and will go about getting them the same way. So any problem for a particular group can and will be solved the same way...That means in my opinion that white thinking...would solve the same problems the same way as black... yellow...red... thinking. Part of the problem is we incorrectly believe that because of skin color we think differently...we don't!.

Butch


I remember a movie called "Watermelon Man" that was about a White guy who woke up Black one day. It was a shit ton of time ago ad I don't really remember the plot. As such, I might seek it out and watch it again, but it was in a time when there was significant racial discrimination.

Got me curious now. I wonder if youtube has it.

T^T


Yep, it starred Godfry Cainbrige.
Gregory Peck did a much better movie (unfortunatly I can't remember the name of it) in which he was a writer examaning anti-Semetism. To understand it he pretended he was Jewish.

Gentlemen's Agreement ?




BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 6:06:07 PM)

particularly in the West where racism is often negatively sanctioned

This line from your post underminds your position.
In the West racism is "negatively sanctioned" in other places it is just the way things are.
Rowanda was the worst outbreak of racism I know of.
Tribalism is just a more specific form a racism.
And the idea that I am in any way responsible for the actions of the Spanish 5 centuries ago is absurd.




vincentML -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 6:31:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

particularly in the West where racism is often negatively sanctioned

This line from your post underminds your position.
In the West racism is "negatively sanctioned" in other places it is just the way things are.
Rowanda was the worst outbreak of racism I know of.
Tribalism is just a more specific form a racism.
And the idea that I am in any way responsible for the actions of the Spanish 5 centuries ago is absurd.

Yes, but it goes on to describe the changing nature of racism in the west.

And, nobody said or even implied that you were responsible for anything. Boy, you are really defensive. Lighten up.




vincentML -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 6:42:18 PM)

quote:

As to calling people a racist, when you make blanket assertions that all white people think a certain way which oppresses all people of color,


I don't recall making any such blanket assertions about "all" anybody. You will have to show me. The closest i came, as i recall, was discussing racism in America as a force of history in whose backwash we were all swamped. So, racism remains a salient issue in America. Where did i say we were all racists or that blacks were all oppressed. I stand by the sources I linked to. Oppression and dominance are characteristics of racism where the majority population benefits from discriminating against the minorities.

So, if you don't agree, address the comments, give your rebuttal, don't pretend you are debating while you are calling me a liar and a racist. That sucks.




Dvr22999874 -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 7:15:51 PM)

Blanket assertions seem to be quite commonplace on here VML....................I have seen Americans say "We (meaning all Americans I suppose) do this, or don't do this; or we think this or don't think this". I have seen a Singaporean talk as though she spoke for all Singaporeans and knew what all Chinese were thinking or saying. I have seen an Aussie talk as though he had insight into every one of the 25,000,000 living souls in this country; and so it goes. Then you have 'The Brothers Dumm' who make empirical statements as though every word they utter is the absolute truth and should never be questioned for fear of disturbing their godliness and their ill-founded belief that everybody except them is stupid.
Me ? I just bumble along and hope the sky ISN'T really falling as some seem to believe it to be.




BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 7:20:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

particularly in the West where racism is often negatively sanctioned

This line from your post underminds your position.
In the West racism is "negatively sanctioned" in other places it is just the way things are.
Rowanda was the worst outbreak of racism I know of.
Tribalism is just a more specific form a racism.
And the idea that I am in any way responsible for the actions of the Spanish 5 centuries ago is absurd.

Yes, but it goes on to describe the changing nature of racism in the west.

And, nobody said or even implied that you were responsible for anything. Boy, you are really defensive. Lighten up.

Don't you remember saying that white Americans were part of the international white oppression agaisnt blacks thus allowing you to hold the 14,500,000 blacks that were taken to the Americas agaisnt white Americans?




Termyn8or -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 8:19:26 PM)

I find that 14 million figure extremely hard to believe. The population of the country was like 30 million. Are you (they) telling me they held slave stronger and more agilent than them with those numbers ? What, was every other White a straw boss ?

They couldn't pick cotton when they were all chained up, yet the Whites still maintained control. Really. And how many families even owned slaves ? Seriously, 14 million of them ? Fuck, with their reproduction rate they would be in the majority by now unless the liberal gibberish is correct and that many of them were killed. And I don't believe that either. They cost money.

What's more, before the civil war some secessionist states had already outlawed the importation of more slaves. But they did not free the slaves. And the emancipation proclamation did not free slave in non-rebel states. Yeah, that is the moral high ground eh ? Buncha shit.

We keep finding out that the official version of history is not quite right. Next comes the persecution that befell the D6MRD crowd. There simply weren't six million of them. Now we have that one of the biggest slave holders was Black ! But why not, they sold each other.

And Jew lovers deny that Jews traded in slaves but they were the biggest slave traders of all. Even Whites, one Pope complained about them forcibly circumcising Gentile slaves. Well remember when the Pharoh said "Never let a Hebrew sit on the throne of Egypt" ? Well he has a reason and it is in the Bible. Well that Pope did not just come up with that out of his head.

People will enslave each other if they figure they can. I figure about half the people have that in their nature. And I do not mean that in the nice way like in a relationship. but it still happens in relationships non-consenstually. One partner is the stronger, and dominates, and the other does not like it but has nowhere else to go or is afraid. Happens all the time.

One of the things I want to know is why slaves did not get all together and even if the straw boss had a gun, charge him and only one of them dies, but he gets torn to shreds. Then march to Massa's house and tear the fuck out of it. You know when one of them pulls a gun on a cop and gets shot they are perfectly capable of tearing up a chicken joint they just ate at last night. Is this savagery an acquired talent or what ?

Too much shit makes no sense. There is no fucking way there were 14 million slaves here. If there were 14 million imported, then a bunch of them got killed off. (which is not impossible)

T^T




BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 8:49:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I find that 14 million figure extremely hard to believe. The population of the country was like 30 million. Are you (they) telling me they held slave stronger and more agilent than them with those numbers ? What, was every other White a straw boss ?

They couldn't pick cotton when they were all chained up, yet the Whites still maintained control. Really. And how many families even owned slaves ? Seriously, 14 million of them ? Fuck, with their reproduction rate they would be in the majority by now unless the liberal gibberish is correct and that many of them were killed. And I don't believe that either. They cost money.

What's more, before the civil war some secessionist states had already outlawed the importation of more slaves. But they did not free the slaves. And the emancipation proclamation did not free slave in non-rebel states. Yeah, that is the moral high ground eh ? Buncha shit.

We keep finding out that the official version of history is not quite right. Next comes the persecution that befell the D6MRD crowd. There simply weren't six million of them. Now we have that one of the biggest slave holders was Black ! But why not, they sold each other.

And Jew lovers deny that Jews traded in slaves but they were the biggest slave traders of all. Even Whites, one Pope complained about them forcibly circumcising Gentile slaves. Well remember when the Pharoh said "Never let a Hebrew sit on the throne of Egypt" ? Well he has a reason and it is in the Bible. Well that Pope did not just come up with that out of his head.

People will enslave each other if they figure they can. I figure about half the people have that in their nature. And I do not mean that in the nice way like in a relationship. but it still happens in relationships non-consenstually. One partner is the stronger, and dominates, and the other does not like it but has nowhere else to go or is afraid. Happens all the time.

One of the things I want to know is why slaves did not get all together and even if the straw boss had a gun, charge him and only one of them dies, but he gets torn to shreds. Then march to Massa's house and tear the fuck out of it. You know when one of them pulls a gun on a cop and gets shot they are perfectly capable of tearing up a chicken joint they just ate at last night. Is this savagery an acquired talent or what ?

Too much shit makes no sense. There is no fucking way there were 14 million slaves here. If there were 14 million imported, then a bunch of them got killed off. (which is not impossible)

T^T

No the 14-15 million figure was for all of the Americas, over 90% of them went to English colonies, south and central America.




BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 8:52:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

F If it was open armed rebellion shouldn't the army have been sent in to put it down.

There were military tanks or personnel carriers on Springfield Avenue in Newark.

Personel carriers, how they transported the guard, routinely used to help with riots regardless of who was rioting.




kdsub -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 8:54:36 PM)

Vince I would have the same reaction no matter what color my skin... I don't have to be black to understand the problems. Many African Americans are saying the same thing I am when it comes to solving the problems in the black community. Skin color has nothing to do with seeing problems and how to solve them... Saying you need to walk in my shoes is a cop out and it is a racist idea. I know you don't see it that way but it is.

What I do believe is that change must come from within the black communities where the real problem exists. Otherwise most problems are within the families and their attitudes. They must start taking responsibility for not only themselves and their children but their neighbors and their neighborhoods.

They must stop being victims either real or imagined and take control of their future through their vote...It works and has worked in many African American communities. It is the only way in my opinion they can break the cycle of crime and poverty that is the result of their apathy and failure to use the power of their vote.

You see harassment by police...vote and stop it... You see discrimination in employment... vote and stop it... you feel courts are targeting blacks...vote the damn judge out. Their is a path that is well defined... it is like the ring on a carousel... all you need to do is reach out and grab it.

Butch





BamaD -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 9:00:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Fifteen million blacks were transported as slaves to the Americas. You think that's just a bump that will go away if we say oh, hey, sorry about that?


You lay the 15,000,000 squarely at the feet of the U S and the reason for blacks
to resent white people.
So did you want us to believe that all 15,000,000 were transported to the U S or do you actually think that the U S should somehow be held responsible for the actions of Brazil. Or do you think that every white person is responsible for the actions of any other white person.

I do not. It is only that simple if you look at it from a nationalist defensive posture. It is an international, historical problem of colonization and racialism that began on the shores of West Africa and with the brutal enslavement of Caribbean indios by Columbus. It is the story of the continuing systemic subjugation of people of color by white people here in America, in Australia, Britain, and in Latin America. And it erupts in violence in our cities and ring suburbs where blacks feel they are incarcerated in their own neighborhoods by brutal police practices. It takes on a different face in Mexico where drug cartels are heroes to the indigenous people and in Guatemala, Hondurus, Peru, etc., where the first people have been treated terribly by the white skinned descendants of Spanish conquistadors. So, I do not lay it all on the United States. We are just a part of the broader world history of racial abuses of people of color.

Here you are saying that white America shares responsibility for the actions of other whites, in effect because we are all in this together. If all of white America is responsible, then I am responsible so yes, you are blaming me for what Brazil did.




Dvr22999874 -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/20/2016 10:07:39 PM)

Herr Streicher,

you never seem to miss an opportunity to bait the jews do you ? No matter what the thread is, it will always come around to the point that the jews are to blame for everything. Yes, of course there were jewish slave traders, along with muslims, baptists, catholics and bloody tree worshippers. The same applies to bankers, arms manufacturers and managers of cleaning shops probably. I know plenty of jews as well, who are just rubbing by, from wage to wage, just like the goyim.

I haven't seen your newspaper on the newsstands for 71 years now..............is something wrong ? Or is it something the jews said ?




thompsonx -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 2:35:00 AM)


ORIGINAL: kdsub

Vince I would have the same reaction no matter what color my skin...


Liar

I don't have to be black to understand the problems.


Liar

Many African Americans are saying the same thing I am when it comes to solving the problems in the black community.


Liar

Skin color has nothing to do with seeing problems and how to solve them...



Liar

Saying you need to walk in my shoes is a cop out and it is a racist idea.


Liar

I know you don't see it that way but it is.

Liar

What I do believe is that change must come from within the black communities where the real problem exists.


Liar

Otherwise most problems are within the families and their attitudes.


Liar


They must start taking responsibility for not only themselves and their children but their neighbors and their neighborhoods.


When are white people going to do that?

They must stop being victims either real or imagined and take control of their future through their vote...

Liar


It works and has worked in many African American communities.

Cite please


It is the only way in my opinion they can break the cycle of crime and poverty that is the result of their apathy and failure to use the power of their vote.


Liar

You see harassment by police...vote and stop it...


How does that work in furgistan?


You see discrimination in employment... vote and stop it...

How did that work in furgistan?


you feel courts are targeting blacks...vote the damn judge out.


How did that work in furgistan?

Their is a path that is well defined... it is like the ring on a carousel... all you need to do is reach out and grab it.


You are such a pathetic liar.



[/quote]




thompsonx -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 2:36:42 AM)


ORIGINAL: BamaD

If all of white America is responsible, then I am responsible so yes, you are blaming me for what Brazil did.


Jesus you are phoquing stupid.





thompsonx -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 2:50:49 AM)


ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I find that 14 million figure extremely hard to believe.

That is because you are too phoquing stupid to do any research.


The population of the country was like 30 million. Are you (they) telling me they held slave stronger and more agilent than them with those numbers ? What, was every other White a straw boss ?


Who had the guns the slaves or the slave owners?

They couldn't pick cotton when they were all chained up, yet the Whites still maintained control. Really. And how many families even owned slaves ?


The records that you are too phoquing lazy to look up ,indicate that about a third of those in the south owned slaves.


Seriously, 14 million of them ? Fuck, with their reproduction rate they would be in the majority by now unless the liberal gibberish is correct and that many of them were killed. And I don't believe that either. They cost money.


Google could be your friend here.

What's more, before the civil war some secessionist states had already outlawed the importation of more slaves.

The history books say you are full of shit. The history books say that the u.s. government outlawed the slave trade in 1808.

https://books.google.com/books?id=O3-7DAAAQBAJ&pg=PA205&lpg=PA205&dq=the+u.s.outlaw+the+slave+trade&source=bl&ots=3mc_T5pLBU&sig=UcrQoq1o8Kv4gX7NTI1A9HAGiI0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigo-f1m9LOAhWK6yYKHTsnA_4Q6AEIGzAB#v=onepage&q=the%20u.s.outlaw%20the%20slave%20trade&f=false



But they did not free the slaves. And the emancipation proclamation did not free slave in non-rebel states. Yeah, that is the moral high ground eh ? Buncha shit.

What is your point?

We keep finding out that the official version of history is not quite right.

Perhaps that is because you are slower than your peers?


Next comes the persecution that befell the D6MRD crowd. There simply weren't six million of them.


Not according to the facts.

Now we have that one of the biggest slave holders was Black !

You are a liar.


But why not, they sold each other.

Half truth whole lie.

And Jew lovers deny that Jews traded in slaves but they were the biggest slave traders of all.

How about a cite for this bit of bullshit?


Even Whites, one Pope complained about them forcibly circumcising Gentile slaves. Well remember when the Pharoh said "Never let a Hebrew sit on the throne of Egypt" ? Well he has a reason and it is in the Bible. Well that Pope did not just come up with that out of his head.


Which of the popes are you speaking of?

People will enslave each other if they figure they can. I figure about half the people have that in their nature.

But you are using a damaged central cortex to figure with.

And I do not mean that in the nice way like in a relationship. but it still happens in relationships non-consenstually. One partner is the stronger, and dominates, and the other does not like it but has nowhere else to go or is afraid. Happens all the time.

One of the things I want to know is why slaves did not get all together and even if the straw boss had a gun, charge him and only one of them dies, but he gets torn to shreds. Then march to Massa's house and tear the fuck out of it. You know when one of them pulls a gun on a cop and gets shot they are perfectly capable of tearing up a chicken joint they just ate at last night. Is this savagery an acquired talent or what ?



"A well armed militia being necessary to the security of a free state...yawn

Too much shit makes no sense.

It seldom does to the ignorant.







Nnanji -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 6:00:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

particularly in the West where racism is often negatively sanctioned

This line from your post underminds your position.
In the West racism is "negatively sanctioned" in other places it is just the way things are.
Rowanda was the worst outbreak of racism I know of.
Tribalism is just a more specific form a racism.
And the idea that I am in any way responsible for the actions of the Spanish 5 centuries ago is absurd.

Yes, but it goes on to describe the changing nature of racism in the west.

And, nobody said or even implied that you were responsible for anything. Boy, you are really defensive. Lighten up.

Here's the real changing nature of racism in the west.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-urban-unrest-kass-0821-20160819-column.html

What isn't discussed enough when riots happen and neighborhoods burn is the one thing most common to all these decaying urban tinderboxes.
They're run by Democrats.

Baltimore is a Democratic city, Milwaukee is a Democratic city, Chicago, Detroit, and on and on.

This is a most inconvenient truth. This is what binds them.

For decade after decade, Democrats have controlled policy and politics in the broken cities. This is the proof of Democratic success.

The broken schools have been run by Democrats for decades. The broken institutions are run by Democrats.

The political corruption in these cities is Democratic corruption, where government is the hammer used to beat others into forking over their cash.

The corruption tax presses down upon the economic wastelands, where there are no jobs to be had.






DominantWrestler -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 6:34:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

particularly in the West where racism is often negatively sanctioned

This line from your post underminds your position.
In the West racism is "negatively sanctioned" in other places it is just the way things are.
Rowanda was the worst outbreak of racism I know of.
Tribalism is just a more specific form a racism.
And the idea that I am in any way responsible for the actions of the Spanish 5 centuries ago is absurd.

Yes, but it goes on to describe the changing nature of racism in the west.

And, nobody said or even implied that you were responsible for anything. Boy, you are really defensive. Lighten up.

Here's the real changing nature of racism in the west.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-urban-unrest-kass-0821-20160819-column.html

What isn't discussed enough when riots happen and neighborhoods burn is the one thing most common to all these decaying urban tinderboxes.
They're run by Democrats.

Baltimore is a Democratic city, Milwaukee is a Democratic city, Chicago, Detroit, and on and on.

This is a most inconvenient truth. This is what binds them.

For decade after decade, Democrats have controlled policy and politics in the broken cities. This is the proof of Democratic success.

The broken schools have been run by Democrats for decades. The broken institutions are run by Democrats.

The political corruption in these cities is Democratic corruption, where government is the hammer used to beat others into forking over their cash.

The corruption tax presses down upon the economic wastelands, where there are no jobs to be had.





Of the 10 poorest states, 8 voted for McCain against Obama and all 10 voted for Bush in 2000




thompsonx -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 6:43:34 AM)


ORIGINAL: Nnanji


Which racist will you quote for us next???n.b. forrest?




vincentML -> RE: Milwaukee Burning (8/21/2016 7:30:16 AM)

quote:

Here you are saying that white America shares responsibility for the actions of other whites, in effect because we are all in this together. If all of white America is responsible, then I am responsible so yes, you are blaming me for what Brazil did.

Okay. Whatever blows your skirt up. [:D]




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