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Alright I want to know - 8/19/2016 7:15:15 AM

jlf1961

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In all the "home of the future" things that were put out by the various studios and appliance makers, we were supposed to have robots and flying cars by now.

And I am not talking about that robotic vacuum cleaner.

By this time, according the Dick, we were to have replicants!

Of course, according to Roddenberry's history given in Star Trek, we should also just be finishing the Eugenics wars.

Of course, according to the writer of Logan's Run, I wouldnt even be here to complain.

However, I want my flying car, my robots, and my replicants!!!!

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/19/2016 11:10:47 AM

WhoreMods

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It isn't just the SF, either, it's the vintage futurology as well.
I remember seeing a predictive book from the '50s which insisted that the use of atomic power plants would make electricity so cheap that it would no longer even be necessary to charge for it.

My favourite non happening SF prediction is of the same sort of early '50s vintage now I think about it: the first manned mission to Venus should have taken place back in '99 according to Frank Hampson.

(Didn't the book of Logan's Run have the cut off age for execution as 20 rather than 30?)

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/23/2016 6:45:10 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

It isn't just the SF, either, it's the vintage futurology as well.
I remember seeing a predictive book from the '50s which insisted that the use of atomic power plants would make electricity so cheap that it would no longer even be necessary to charge for it.

My favourite non happening SF prediction is of the same sort of early '50s vintage now I think about it: the first manned mission to Venus should have taken place back in '99 according to Frank Hampson.

(Didn't the book of Logan's Run have the cut off age for execution as 20 rather than 30?)

Yep in the book, the cut off was 20.

As for the first manned mission to Venus, I think that idea went out when the first probe sent there by the soviet union got crushed (well squeezed to an inoperable condition) by the atmospheric pressure.

As for the cheap atomic power, that was based on development of the fusion power plants, which is being hampered by researchers taking baby steps.

Even though the math has been around for decades (shortly after the first hydrogen bomb was popped which was a fusion explosion) proving why the sun just dont blow up, the researchers have been dragging their feet on actually starting a sustained fusion reaction.

However, when talking about future predictions, my favorite was from Arthur C Clarke.

When Stanley Kubrick and Clarke were working on 2001, they had one rule, it had to be technologically feasible.

In a later interview, Clarke made it clear that if the US, Great Britain and the Soviet Union would put a third of their total defense budget in to space exploration, everything depicted in the movie could be built by 1985.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to WhoreMods)

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/23/2016 7:14:12 AM

WickedsDesire

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USADM5Gk9Gs - he was in an episode of babylon 5 too - pants episode but whatever happened to him

now this is an intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1obwMjzUY9M

Lucifers morning star is too harsh - oh wait they used that in "Lucifer"

The atmosphere of Venus is about 100 earthling atmospheres - I think the Russians were the only nation to land a probe on it an it did not last long.
Well, they did the moon 50 years ago. allegedly. Yet never again or Mars.

perhaps they are investing all this futuristic money in flesh bots -

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/23/2016 7:18:51 AM

DesFIP

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I'd be happy with a housecleaning robot. The roomba can't climb up and down steps and it costs a fortune.

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/23/2016 7:29:53 AM

WickedsDesire

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I thought they were called cock gurgling slaves DesFIP

< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 8/23/2016 7:30:52 AM >

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/23/2016 8:20:39 AM

jlf1961

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Of course, the EM drive that has NASA scientists and engineers scratching their heads trying to figure out why it works (damn thing seemingly does so with total disregard for the laws of physics) would make space travel economical and speedy.

Funny thing is that some futurists actually considered it as a possibility in the 50's.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to WickedsDesire)

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/23/2016 8:35:23 AM

WickedsDesire

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They have the ion drive...EM drive I am not sure I think they still debate its existence.

And they curse the day of pluto - it was all handsome and marvellous and yet not even six light hours away it took that pondering malarkey 11 years - a cheap mission - shame and they expected a gloubule of ice

Within our solar system there exists 2 locations for man to wander
1. Moon
2. Mars

< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 8/23/2016 8:36:49 AM >

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/23/2016 10:01:22 AM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

They have the ion drive...EM drive I am not sure I think they still debate its existence.

And they curse the day of pluto - it was all handsome and marvellous and yet not even six light hours away it took that pondering malarkey 11 years - a cheap mission - shame and they expected a gloubule of ice

Within our solar system there exists 2 locations for man to wander
1. Moon
2. Mars

They really cant debate what is physically in front of them.

Suggest you read Pear reviewed article concerning EM drive

The primary problem is that some experiments prove the initial claims, others prove the thing works, but not as well as the inventor claimed it did.

Of course, there is the solar sail, but once you get too far out from the sun, the speed would fall off... unless you produced your own photons with a laser.

My personal opinion would be the ITER design for a fusion reactor makes the best sense for powering a space craft at this time, primarily since that is the only group that is actually doing something that uses the math to actually make it work.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to WickedsDesire)

Post #: 9

RE: Alright I want to know - 8/23/2016 10:20:11 AM

WhoreMods

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

It isn't just the SF, either, it's the vintage futurology as well.
I remember seeing a predictive book from the '50s which insisted that the use of atomic power plants would make electricity so cheap that it would no longer even be necessary to charge for it.

My favourite non happening SF prediction is of the same sort of early '50s vintage now I think about it: the first manned mission to Venus should have taken place back in '99 according to Frank Hampson.

(Didn't the book of Logan's Run have the cut off age for execution as 20 rather than 30?)

Yep in the book, the cut off was 20.

As for the first manned mission to Venus, I think that idea went out when the first probe sent there by the soviet union got crushed (well squeezed to an inoperable condition) by the atmospheric pressure.

As for the cheap atomic power, that was based on development of the fusion power plants, which is being hampered by researchers taking baby steps.

Even though the math has been around for decades (shortly after the first hydrogen bomb was popped which was a fusion explosion) proving why the sun just dont blow up, the researchers have been dragging their feet on actually starting a sustained fusion reaction.

However, when talking about future predictions, my favorite was from Arthur C Clarke.

When Stanley Kubrick and Clarke were working on 2001, they had one rule, it had to be technologically feasible.

In a later interview, Clarke made it clear that if the US, Great Britain and the Soviet Union would put a third of their total defense budget in to space exploration, everything depicted in the movie could be built by 1985.

Clarke was always very scrupulous indeed with his engineering in most of his fiction. I think most of 2001 apart from the monolith and the AI could have been built in the late '60s, never mind '85...
(Mind you, he was also the scientific advisor to the Eagle in the early '50s, which suggested that the biggest problem with a manned mission to Venus would have been the Treens and their sinister leader.)

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/24/2016 7:20:18 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

However, I want my flying car, my robots, and my replicants!!!!

Would you settle for an electric airplane?

https://www.wired.com/2014/07/chip-yates-electric-plane-records/

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/24/2016 7:22:13 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Of course, there is the solar sail, but once you get too far out from the sun, the speed would fall off...

What would cause the speed to fall off???there is no gravity and no friction.

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/24/2016 8:17:23 PM

jlf1961

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For the unenlightened (uneducated) a solar sail is not actually light driven, but uses the solar wind (various forms of energy given off by the sun) which grows weaker the further from the source you get.

While a laser (freaking big ass laser) would supplement some of the energy, as in photons, it would not supplement all.

And even interstellar space is not a hard vacuum, there are clouds of dust and gas, both of which would cause some friction, all dependent on the density of the cloud.

These clouds are the whole reason a bussard ramjet scoop drive would create a freaking shit ton of hard radiation that would fry the crew (not to mention the electronics) of a ship using this system.

Not to mention that using a solar sail would kind of limit you to travelling in a straight line, not to mention the fact that to actually achieve any great velocity, you would need a sail that would be hundreds of kilometers across.

At present, there are five possible solutions, but only one is actually doable today, and one dependent on the success of a fusion system presently under construction.

Plasma drive:
Needed a source of electricity to create the plasma from a gas
Power source, nuclear reactor

Fusion:
No working fusion reactor presently in existence that generates more power than it takes to operate/initiate.

Now, before anyone gets all screwy and screams you cant get energy from nothing, what I mean is that a fusion reactor would work like the a star, burn hydrogen to make helium with a shit ton of energy output.

However, presently it takes more power to initiate the reaction than it produces.

Once the reaction is self sustaining, meaning it is going to keep going as long as their is hydrogen to burn, it will produce more energy than it took to start the damn reaction in the first place, unlike a star that got itself going when the gas reached a critical mass and the gravity formed by all that gas compressed it, heated it and started it going in the first place.

Matter/antimatter:
At present there is only 2 micro grams of the stuff in existence and it cost a few hundred million to get that, basically with current tech, too fucking expensive.

Dark energy: We know it exists, but have no clue where to find it or how to use it.

Zero point energy: We know mathematically this exists, with some limited physical proof, but have no clue as to how to make it work for us for anything.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to thompsonx)

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/24/2016 9:11:36 PM

MrRodgers

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jlf, you will get all of that stuff, just be patient. R & D costs for the consumer models are through the roof and once out, it will be the 1%ers or maybe the 5%ers that will own the first go around.

So give that stuff a few decades to work the kinks out and soon it will be just like buying cars, 20% down and 7 years financing. (we have self-driving cars killing people, so you see the time-line here)

The rest of us will probably be 7 families to a 5 room flat with the elderly, yes, you and me...eating soylent green. And that's of course, if we are still here.

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/24/2016 9:13:14 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Of course, there is the solar sail, but once you get too far out from the sun, the speed would fall off...

What would cause the speed to fall off???there is no gravity and no friction.

There is gravity too, from other celestial bodies.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to thompsonx)

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/25/2016 9:46:43 AM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Of course, there is the solar sail, but once you get too far out from the sun, the speed would fall off...

What would cause the speed to fall off???there is no gravity and no friction.

There is gravity too, from other celestial bodies.

Please show me your calculations as to how much velocity would be lost due to those "other celestial bodies

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/25/2016 9:58:57 AM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

For the unenlightened (uneducated) a solar sail is not actually light driven,

Jeff why don't you take your condescending attitude and put it in a big ol' shoe box, put a big pink ribbon on it and stuff it up your ass.

but uses the solar wind (various forms of energy given off by the sun) which grows weaker the further from the source you get.

You have yet to explain how the velocity of the space craft diminishes.

While a laser (freaking big ass laser) would supplement some of the energy, as in photons, it would not supplement all.

That would add velocity, and improve directional control.

And even interstellar space is not a hard vacuum, there are clouds of dust and gas, both of which would cause some friction, all dependent on the density of the cloud.

Can you show me your calculations to validate how much velocity would be lost due to those?

These clouds are the whole reason a bussard ramjet scoop drive would create a freaking shit ton of hard radiation that would fry the crew (not to mention the electronics) of a ship using this system.

Not to mention that using a solar sail would kind of limit you to travelling in a straight line,

How so? Consider a sailing ship with no rudder. Is it possible to stear it with the sails alone?

http://www.hshyachts.com/html/steering_a_boat_without_a_rudd.html

not to mention the fact that to actually achieve any great velocity, you would need a sail that would be hundreds of kilometers across.

So what?
Are there load limits and size limits on space craft in outer space?

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/25/2016 11:34:18 AM

WhoreMods

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There are load and size limits to what can be put on a space craft, even if it's being assembled in orbit. Stuff has to be shot up to it, which has had a massive limiting effect on every space programme in history to date.

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/25/2016 12:38:02 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

There are load and size limits to what can be put on a space craft,

I believe there are two...size and weight. A solar sail is folded. The last one they put up was 13,000 square ft.

http://www.space.com/21556-sunjammer-solar-sail-launch-2014.html

even if it's being assembled in orbit. Stuff has to be shot up to it, which has had a massive limiting effect on every space programme in history to date.

The space station has tons of shit pitched up to it.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 8/25/2016 12:42:48 PM >

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RE: Alright I want to know - 8/25/2016 1:41:05 PM

needlesandpins

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I'm rather glad we don't have flying cars. I've enough on with trying to avoid the 14 pointers on the ground, let alone in the air. As it is someone still managed to do £8000 worth of damage to my car in May, and I'm still not back driving yet. With a clear road ahead of me, and my right of way it really shouldn't have happened that the stupid woman hit me semi head on

Needles

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