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OWYN - 8/23/2016 8:07:39 PM

LadyPact

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I'm toying with this idea for a new acronym in the BDSM community. (Yeah, I know. Like we need another one.) I'm going to call it OWYN. Pronounced "oh, win". It stands for "Only What You've Negotiated".

This acronym is not about consent. I feel that consent, or lack thereof, is a much bigger issue. We're not talking about consent violations here. Instead, we're going to talk about *actual* negotiations, as opposed to false expectations, resentments that come from that, and however the conversation goes.

The principle of OWYN is to deal with matters that are *actually* discussed. Too often, people *assume* that things should go this way or that, based pretty much on their own though process. Not what they actually say. They base it on what they "think" or what they "feel". The things that they have this ideal of "everybody knows that, it shouldn't have to be said" kind of thing.

"Everybody knows" is bullsh^t. That translates to you 'assumed' what the other person 'should' do, but you didn't quite step up to the plate to TELL them.

And that, my friends, is your own fault.

Time and time again on these boards, I read posts from the right side of the slash, (meaning s-types, bottoms, etc,) about obligations, expectations, and so on. More often than not, it's about stuff you didn't ACTUALLY negotiate. What happens when the scene is over? What happens if you *KNOW* you get drop two days later? What happens when the relationship is over and parties go their separate ways? Did you TALK about it or did you just place an expectation on the other party that they weren't willing to give?

OWYN is a more realistic approach.

If you come to me and say, "the top is responsible for my sub drop three days later," I really am going to ask you if you TALKED about that potential. Did you discuss it or did you just assume? OWYN.

"But, he was my Dom... He was supposed to love me." Did you TALK about romantic entanglements or did you just assume? OWYN.

"But, but, but, he's the DOM! No, I shouldn't still be in the position of serving HIM, but I want HIM to keep having responsibility for ME. I'm just a sub!!!" I really am going to look at you and ASK you if you've negotiated.

Like it or not, I'm going to look at you like an ADULT. I'm going to ask you what you've actually negotiated.

And that's how it should be.

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Post #: 1

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 1:23:22 AM

MariaB

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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Hi LP, I have a lot of respect for you and the way you don't take offence at differing opinions. Here's mine!

On the face of things its a good idea but I can think of a few scenarios where this idea is too broad and wide to actually mean anything. It needs narrowing down more.

Lets take a vanilla new date. They’ve met up because they both believe this could work. They both have certain expectations. She for example doesn’t like a man who complains bitterly about his ex. He doesn’t like a woman who never stops talking. He’s not going to warn her and she’s not going to warn him because intuition about each other is crucial in the early days of a relationship.

Now lets take a dominant and a submissive. He’s strongly expressed his expectations even before they meet and she’s done the same with him. The chances are, he’s already told her a lot more about his sexual prowess than he would of done in a different setting and it’s the same with her. He already has a good idea about what she likes and again, it’s the same for her.

All goes to plan and when they embark on their first scene he sticks to all the things they’ve previously negotiated and so does she…. She doesn’t scream because he hates screamers and he doesn’t push her pain barriers because she’s made it clear she’s a lightweight when it comes to pain. All goes swimmingly until, in the heat of the moment he utters, “you’re loving this aren’t you?” Those words bring her out of a euphoric state into the cold light of day. Suddenly it all feels a bit silly, like a game and in that moment, she knows he’s not the sort of dominant she wants.

This isn’t something they could of previously negotiated. I mean, next time, with a new man perhaps she can re-lay that story to ensure it doesn’t happen again but those subtle words were all that were needed to close any a possible ongoing relationship.

There are many subtle moments that won’t be talked about during new dates; not because of bad planning or a lack of openness, but because our deep seated intuition often relies on finding some things out for ourselves. Its human nature to often assume we will have our expectations met and if we don’t, its because we were naturally ill matched.

A pro-Domme will talk much more matter-factly with her client about his expectations but even with all her years of experience, she will often get the subtleties wrong.

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Post #: 2

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 3:47:40 AM

LilJuly76

Posts: 1245
Joined: 1/9/2016
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that's one of my problems with the newer breed of D/s especially on the right side of the slash, they never negotiate. The other thing again especially on the right side it's all about being in love. When I was on submissive groups on fet the first time I came across a lot of new submissives that ended up with actual Dominants and they were surprised to find out that hey they have to listen to the Dominant and if the Dominant doesn't want sex that particular day you ain't gettin' it, even more surprised that the Dominant didn't do what they wanted right than and there.

I always asked well did you negotiate? they reply: "what's that?" so I would explain it to them and tell them negotiations are very important in D/s relationships. I mean talk, talk, talk and negotiate, negotiate and negotiate before you agree to submit to them.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 3

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 7:14:13 AM

DesFIP

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Unexpressed expectations is how I usually refer to this. Did you explain what you wanted? Did the other person really listen and understand or were they just waiting until it was their turn to speak?

Active listening skills as well as fair fighting go a long way toward good and effective communication. Unfortunately damn few people are competent in this.

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Post #: 4

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 9:03:11 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Unexpressed expectations is how I usually refer to this. Did you explain what you wanted?

I agree with this.

But, then you also get the new people that actually believe the Me-Dom/you-sub routine and the people that confuse tingly genitals with a relationship and get so caught up that they don't think about that stuff.

It usually takes getting burned at least once for the people in those categories to figure out that negotiations matter and that you should figure out if you actually like that person rather than listening to your genitals.

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Post #: 5

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 9:23:16 AM

WhoreMods

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You could even argue that a massively fucked up mess early on is healthy, because it gives people an idea what to avoid in future. Not sure I'd go along with that one, but if people need to burn their fingers rather than just listening when they're warned that they might get hurt...

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Post #: 6

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 9:30:05 AM

OsideGirl

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From: United States
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It's hard to reason with sub frenzy.

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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Post #: 7

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 9:42:07 AM

WhoreMods

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Very true. I suspect that's why there's so many manipulative shitehawks claiming to be Dominant (rather than ill mannered control freaks whose parents should have slapped them more often when they were kids) stinking up the scene, I suppose.

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Post #: 8

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 10:01:28 AM

needlesandpins

Posts: 3901
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With all the will in the world you can do as much negotiating as you like, and then still end up in a frustrated heap wanting to slap the life out of the other person. Been there, done that, left asking 'you did understand me didn't you when I said that I actually wanted this to happen, that this time I did explicitly say that I wanted this in real time, not just for you to use online to get your rocks off, so when you agreed to that it's kind of what I want at some point in person.' Being constantly told no kinda pisses me off after a while when previously I've been told yes.

This is probably why I don't make a good slave, or sub, and I'm in bedroom only. I'm in this for the sex, and if I'm not getting/giving the sex I've negotiated then I'm really bored.

Needles

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Post #: 9

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 10:33:30 AM

WhoreMods

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But having sex with your sub is not twuly dominant, surely?

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Post #: 10

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 11:04:59 AM

needlesandpins

Posts: 3901
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

But having sex with your sub is not twuly dominant, surely?

Yeah, because I'm supposed to care about that aren't I? See how I fail so badly at this

Needles

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Post #: 11

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 11:11:22 AM

WhoreMods

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You clearly aren't a twue submissive, you big fake you.

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Post #: 12

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 11:26:38 AM

needlesandpins

Posts: 3901
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Damn it, they were right, I am a fake after all. Oh well, they can all feel free to hold their breath whilst I try to find a fuck to give about that. That's classed as breath play, right?

Needles

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Post #: 13

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 11:34:00 AM

WhoreMods

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Whatever Violet Elizabeth called it is surely the correct term for people like that.

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Post #: 14

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 11:46:05 AM

needlesandpins

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I thought she just screamed until she was sick, which I've seen some of the one twue wayers do in these forums from time-to-time because we're all just not listening hard enough

Needles

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Post #: 15

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 11:49:01 AM

WhoreMods

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How did you know that was why Wealliam and Twudy always make me think of young Miss Bott?

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Post #: 16

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 12:45:56 PM

ThatDizzyChick

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I would add that negotiation is not a one time thing, it is an ongoing process. It is ridiculous to assume that all eventualities would be covered at the outset of a relationship.

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Post #: 17

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 12:51:39 PM

WhoreMods

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Well, of course, but: rational approach eschewed by halfwits, maybe not worth talking of?
(How fucking depressing is that?

)

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Post #: 18

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 12:57:43 PM

ThatDizzyChick

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I find that rationality is in rather short supply among those who espouse a "BDSM lifestyle'.

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Post #: 19

RE: OWYN - 8/24/2016 1:14:40 PM

WhoreMods

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Post #: 20

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