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God and BDSM - 9/4/2016 7:44:46 PM   
Ineffable


Posts: 1
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		What makes something wrong? Does God make it wrong or do you make it wrong?
All things come from God, "The Light", "The Source", "All that is" yet many feel that to express yourself is wrong? Why?
Christ Martyred himself as did other great figures throughout history and is this wrong?
We have extremes from enjoyable BDSM to purpose driven painful BDSM designed to focus upon God for example and is any of this wrong?
Some activities will get you closer to God some won't but in the end you have free will
God gave you free will and its up to you to choose your path so is God Okay with BDSM?
Better question ""are you okay with BDSM?"
Are you okay with yourself?
Is the journey okay?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: God and BDSM - 9/4/2016 9:09:44 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Since man created god or at the very least imagines [him] without real specificity and through my years on the subject, understand BDSM with a whole lot more of it, this OP becomes a non sequitur.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Ineffable)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: God and BDSM - 9/4/2016 9:10:01 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Well as a pretty near atheist I believe that if there is a god it wants you to enjoy life. But actually doesn't care enough to intervene. If he didn't intervene when Stalin and Hitler were fucking Europe up, why would he now ?

I believe if there is a supreme being he is nothing like any of us can imagine. And had a hands off policy with the Earth.

But note that there are orgasms that are caused by sex that results in procreation. Also note that there are other ways of getting off not resulting in procreation and the people (like homosexuals) who get into that are pursuing the same thing. Maybe excepting chastity belt wearers, but still why do they want it ? This does not include the few who are forced to wear them in Arab or whatever countries, but I tell you what, fro what I hear about their rape rate if I was female I would probably want one. I would also want a burka unless I was really ugly.

But according to the Bible, involuntary servitude is not wrong as long as the slaves are not Israelites. They have to be bought from other countries.

As far as I have seen, though I have not read the Bible cover to cover, it does say that Man shall not lay with Man as he does with a Woman. But the fucking crazoid who wrote that was Leviticus. This is the guy who said if your olady wore a skirt made of cotton and a blouse made of silk you must put her to death. Want more ? Who said we should stone adulterers ? That would be half the world, we simply don't have the stones for that.

But tying each other for fun ? Why would god or anyone else give a shit about that as long as we don't hurt them and cause hospital bills ? And you know nobody wants that.

The problem is that the BDSM has to come out of the closet. We have situations where a death under certain circumstances could get someone charged with murder. They might well beat the case but in the interim have lost their job, their car, their house. Savings gone for the lawyers. Homeless. Damn almost be better off in jail.

Back to your guy in the sky. I have given all that up, so have a few people I know. One said if he is our Father how come he is not teaching us to be better ? What kind of argument would you have me put to that ?

And what's more, if he created us, why did he instill these desires ? I used to like getting my brains fucked out by Chelsea when tied down so tight, and I mean even stretched to the point I could not move, god damn that was great. And I returned the favor and she liked it too. We didn't hurt anyone and rarely even pulled a muscle. I used to like cumming and straining against the restraints. Damn was that a trip.

Would your god put such a desire in me if he did not want me to pursue it ? Why ? Is your god actually evil but in disguise ?

I worship nothing, I don't even say "sir". And that means when they catch me driving on a suspended license with a beer between my legs, joint in my pocket, music cranked up and peeling tires and don't take me to jail. I did shake the officer's hand when I got out and thanked him.

I remember the words in a Rush song now, "My mind is not for rent to any god or government":

In political issues, that applies to me.

T^T

(in reply to Ineffable)
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RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 12:33:47 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
This is an interesting topic, for those that aren't godless heathens. So, I'd like to break it down, question-by-question to give my answer:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ineffable

What makes something wrong?



I believe that there is a bit of an incongruity, here. I believe that there are very few absolutes, as far as "right and wrong". I also believe that there are subsections of "wrong". Did you accidentally drive your car into your neighbors house or did you stand on the accelerator in order to maximize damage?

Leaving that to the side, for a moment: I believe that there are two processes that make something "wrong"; our God-given, individual conscience and our collective conscience (when employed in an selfless manner).

Almost all of us have a conscience. For the few to whom God didn't give a conscience, He enabled us to endow a legal system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ineffable

Does God make it wrong or do you make it wrong?



Well, just so my previous statement doesn't get taken out of context: since the conscience and the legal system originate from God ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ineffable

All things come from God, "The Light", "The Source", "All that is" yet many feel that to express yourself is wrong? Why?



Because there are any number of self-righteous, ego-maniacal blowhards that believe it is their destiny to be the "Arbiters of Good and Evil" that they've lost track of humility. They go around and make grandiose pronouncements against their fellow man and fail to realize that they're flirting with the Lucifer Sin.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ineffable

Christ Martyred himself as did other great figures throughout history and is this wrong?



This is a conundrum. First, we'd have to believe that Jesus is who the Christians say He is. If we accept that as resolved, we have to ask: In this one instance, did God refuse free will to one of us? Wasn't Jesus' reason for coming to earth to be crucified?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ineffable

We have extremes from enjoyable BDSM to purpose driven painful BDSM designed to focus upon God for example and is any of this wrong?



I don't grant the premise of this question.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ineffable

Some activities will get you closer to God some won't but in the end you have free will
God gave you free will and its up to you to choose your path so is God Okay with BDSM?



I think, as with all things, this depends upon your reasons for BDSM activities. I think true sadists and masochists are mentally ill so ... go figger.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ineffable

Better question ""are you okay with BDSM?"
Are you okay with yourself?



Quite frankly, I am not "okay with BDSM". I really don't engage in it. As a result, I am very "okay with myself".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ineffable

Is the journey okay?



I'll let you know, when I've actually come to the end.



Michael

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 1:32:19 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ineffable

What makes something wrong?


"right" and "wrong" are concepts that have come about through utility. Going way back, it made sense for a small nomadic group of people to set down some rules that would work in the interest of every one.


quote:



Does God make it wrong or do you make it wrong?


God is a manufactured concept, that was useful in controlling small nomadic groups of people.

quote:


All things come from God, "The Light", "The Source", "All that is"


You're entitled to believe that, but it really is fucking nonsense.

quote:




yet many feel that to express yourself is wrong? Why?
Christ Martyred himself as did other great figures throughout history and is this wrong?


I guess that all depends on your point of view - I'd say that it all depends on what it is the person in question martyred themselves for.

Martyring yourself to save your community, seems pretty awesome to me.

"Martyring yourself to explode a bomb in a market" - not so cool.

quote:


We have extremes from enjoyable BDSM to purpose driven painful BDSM designed to focus upon God for example and is any of this wrong?


Not if the BDSM is between consenting adults, and the results wont impact negatively on the wider society, no.

quote:



Some activities will get you closer to God some won't but in the end you have free will


Well, setting aside the fact that "free will" is a controversial topic among believers, I'm not sure what you mean by "closer to god".

quote:


God gave you free will and its up to you to choose your path so is God Okay with BDSM?


Now, that will depend very much on your "God" and his/her approach to shit. There are 100's of Gods out there, all with their own preferences and kinks. Which god are you referring to?

quote:


Better question ""are you okay with BDSM?"


Yup

quote:


Are you okay with yourself?

Yup
quote:


Is the journey okay?

Yup

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 2:49:00 AM   
NookieNotes


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Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

This is a conundrum. First, we'd have to believe that Jesus is who the Christians say He is. If we accept that as resolved, we have to ask: In this one instance, did God refuse free will to one of us? Wasn't Jesus' reason for coming to earth to be crucified?


While I'm an agnostic, it's my understanding that Jesus was given a choice, and he took it.

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RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 3:11:11 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

While I'm an agnostic, it's my understanding that Jesus was given a choice, and he took it.



Alright. I'll play:

There are so many different types of "Christian". Of course, I am only speaking from my own experience.

My earliest religious training was that God is three entities in one "person". You will find this commonly referred to as "The Holy Trinity"; The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost.

So, The Son agreed to become incarnate as a human, knowing that His lot was to die for the sins of mankind.

The only "choice" of which I'm aware is the initial choice to become a human. After all, did The Son have a choice other than to behave as "Himself" (He is God, after all).

The common teaching is that Jesus was "True God" and "True man".

On the cross, Jesus is believed to have said: "Father if this cup may pass me by ..." Certainly, a human might question their devotion to a god, but wouldn't a god be "forced" be behave in their only possible manner?

So, do I have a choice to be myself or can I be someone else?



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to NookieNotes)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 3:15:50 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		This sounds like a typical BenM question.

I can answer all of it is a few simple words -
  • I don't believe in the man in the sky so it is of no relevence to right or wrong.
  • The rights and wrongs of my life belong to me and nobody else.
  • I'm ok with BDSM, myself and the journey so far.


    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


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    • Profile   Post #: 8
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 3:23:33 AM   
    Lucylastic


    Posts: 40310
    Status: offline     		OMG thanks FD< I was trying to place it:)


    _____________________________

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    \(•_•)
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    <) )> WOMAN
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    Duchess Of Dissent
    Dont Hate Love

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    Profile   Post #: 9
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 3:31:07 AM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline     		It is sooo BenM~ish that I think it is he in disguise.

    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
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    Profile   Post #: 10
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 3:36:32 AM   
    Kaliko


    Posts: 3381
    Joined: 9/25/2010
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Ineffable

    What makes something wrong? Does God make it wrong or do you make it wrong?



    I have tried many times to find a Christian faith that I'm comfortable with. I grew up Catholic, spent most of my schooling in Catholic school, and have at times been very involved with a church as an adult. But in the end, I really think that man is just kind of full of himself to think that we can explain or know "God." I only firmly believe that there is something, I don't know what, and I'm very comfortable with that lack of knowledge.

    So without books or church leaders to look to for an answer, I only have myself. And I have to think that this is precisely what our conscience is for. When we feel like something is wrong, then it is wrong. Now, of course, this doesn't account for those who are mentally ill or in other ways can't actually determine right from wrong. What does happen, though, is that people learn to ignore their conscience. Maybe they feel like they need to trample others in order to "get theirs." Maybe they feel justified in hurting another as retribution. I think it has a lot to do with how one is raised and their environment and how susceptible they are to becoming evil, for lack of a better word.

    So I think we were given the faculties to know right from wrong by the bad feelings we have when we've done wrong and the good feelings we have when we've done right. But I also think we were given the faculties to determine for ourselves what makes us feel good and what makes us feel bad.

    Granted, a philosopher I'm not, so I don't claim any actual sense here. I'm just a confused inhabitant of the mortal coil.

    quote:



    All things come from God, "The Light", "The Source", "All that is" yet many feel that to express yourself is wrong? Why?

    That fear of expression is a product of our environment, no? If we're supported and encouraged, we feel less timid about dipping our toes in the waters of expression. If we're ridiculed, we retreat or express ourselves with more defensiveness.


    quote:



    Some activities will get you closer to God some won't but in the end you have free will
    God gave you free will and its up to you to choose your path so is God Okay with BDSM?



    I can't imagine why not. What are you concerned about regarding BDSM that you think God might disapprove of? I'll assume you mean consensual activities between people who are capable of making decisions like that.

    In fact, my own version of BDSM (which is much more D/s than it is BDSM) is very much a spiritual matter me. Not many people get that, though there are some I know of that do, but that's okay. I get it. If this is an activity that actually does cause me to strive to be a more caring and less judgmental person, then I have to think that it meets with the approval of the higher ups.

    quote:



    Better question ""are you okay with BDSM?"
    Are you okay with yourself?
    Is the journey okay?



    Oh, yes. I say, enjoy the journeys you can choose while you can, because at some point all of us will probably be thrown into a journey we didn't ask for. Learn what you can now, from whatever journey you're on, to strengthen you for what comes ahead.


    (in reply to Ineffable)
    Profile   Post #: 11
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 4:07:16 AM   
    Termyn8or


    Posts: 18681
    Joined: 11/12/2005
    Status: offline     		That is how religion is Kal...

    I rejected it all a few years ago.

    And I also disrespect it.

    T^T

    (in reply to Kaliko)
    Profile   Post #: 12
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 4:47:25 AM   
    WhoreMods


    Posts: 10691
    Joined: 5/6/2016
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

    This is a conundrum. First, we'd have to believe that Jesus is who the Christians say He is. If we accept that as resolved, we have to ask: In this one instance, did God refuse free will to one of us? Wasn't Jesus' reason for coming to earth to be crucified?


    While I'm an agnostic, it's my understanding that Jesus was given a choice, and he took it.

    In fact, if there wasn't any element of choice involved, then his sacrifice wouldn't have any significance, would it?

    _____________________________

    On the level and looking for a square deal.

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    Profile   Post #: 13
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 11:44:33 AM   
    NookieNotes


    Posts: 1720
    Joined: 11/10/2013
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

    While I'm an agnostic, it's my understanding that Jesus was given a choice, and he took it.



    Alright. I'll play:

    There are so many different types of "Christian". Of course, I am only speaking from my own experience.

    My earliest religious training was that God is three entities in one "person". You will find this commonly referred to as "The Holy Trinity"; The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost.

    So, The Son agreed to become incarnate as a human, knowing that His lot was to die for the sins of mankind.

    The only "choice" of which I'm aware is the initial choice to become a human. After all, did The Son have a choice other than to behave as "Himself" (He is God, after all).

    The common teaching is that Jesus was "True God" and "True man".

    On the cross, Jesus is believed to have said: "Father if this cup may pass me by ..." Certainly, a human might question their devotion to a god, but wouldn't a god be "forced" be behave in their only possible manner?

    So, do I have a choice to be myself or can I be someone else?

    Michael


    There was an interesting series of books 'Four Lords of the Diamond,' by Jack L. Chalker, which was about four clones of a single agent sent to different planets and how they learned and behaved differently than expected.

    Seems like it could apply.

    A god divided could and would question himself, about doing the right thing, what the right thing is, and more, possibly, after living as and with humans.


    _____________________________

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    I Write! A few of my books on Amazon: http://amazon.com/author/msnnotes

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    Profile   Post #: 14
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 12:01:29 PM   
    MrRodgers


    Posts: 10542
    Joined: 7/30/2005
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

    While I'm an agnostic, it's my understanding that Jesus was given a choice, and he took it.



    Alright. I'll play:

    There are so many different types of "Christian". Of course, I am only speaking from my own experience.

    My earliest religious training was that God is three entities in one "person". You will find this commonly referred to as "The Holy Trinity"; The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost.

    So, The Son agreed to become incarnate as a human, knowing that His lot was to die for the sins of mankind.

    The only "choice" of which I'm aware is the initial choice to become a human. After all, did The Son have a choice other than to behave as "Himself" (He is God, after all).

    The common teaching is that Jesus was "True God" and "True man".

    On the cross, Jesus is believed to have said: "Father if this cup may pass me by ..." Certainly, a human might question their devotion to a god, but wouldn't a god be "forced" be behave in their only possible manner?

    So, do I have a choice to be myself or can I be someone else?

    Michael


    There was an interesting series of books 'Four Lords of the Diamond,' by Jack L. Chalker, which was about four clones of a single agent sent to different planets and how they learned and behaved differently than expected.

    Seems like it could apply.

    A god divided could and would question himself, about doing the right thing, what the right thing is, and more, possibly, after living as and with humans.


    Almost everything we humans do and would be generally considered right, we do using our own reason, intellect, sympathy, empathy, and logic, almost all of which is derived from secular humanism.

    _____________________________

    You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

    Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
    J K Galbraith

    (in reply to NookieNotes)
    Profile   Post #: 15
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 2:12:38 PM   
    LaTigresse


    Posts: 26123
    Joined: 1/15/2006
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Ineffable

    What makes something wrong? Does God make it wrong or do you make it wrong?
    All things come from God, "The Light", "The Source", "All that is" yet many feel that to express yourself is wrong? Why?
    Christ Martyred himself as did other great figures throughout history and is this wrong?
    We have extremes from enjoyable BDSM to purpose driven painful BDSM designed to focus upon God for example and is any of this wrong?
    Some activities will get you closer to God some won't but in the end you have free will
    God gave you free will and its up to you to choose your path so is God Okay with BDSM?
    Better question ""are you okay with BDSM?"
    Are you okay with yourself?
    Is the journey okay?


    My belief is that deities and religions were created by humans, often males, for the sake of power. It preys on the needs of people to pass off their own personal responsibilities, to an imaginary being/s. They pray to deities to make positive things happen rather than take responsibility for doing the work themselves. If they screw up they can blame the evil powers for their weaknesses and screw ups instead of taking personal responsibility. When horrific things happen to innocent ones, they try to believe that some wonderful deity has a mysteriously fantasic plan they are incapable of understanding instead of accepting that sometimes shit just happens. It makes life easier for them.

    _____________________________

    My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

    Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

    (in reply to Ineffable)
    Profile   Post #: 16
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 3:32:23 PM   
    ThatDizzyChick


    Posts: 5490
    Status: offline
    quote:

    Does God make it wrong

    Nope
    quote:

    or do you make it wrong?

    That's not the way I would phrase it, but basically yeah.
    quote:

    All things come from God

    Nope, all things ARE God
    quote:

    yet many feel that to express yourself is wrong? Why?

    Society is to blame for the most part.
    quote:

    Christ Martyred himself

    Assuming you accept that particular myth, I do not, I reject it.

    quote:

    Better question ""are you okay with BDSM?"

    Yup
    quote:

    Are you okay with yourself?

    Yup
    quote:

    Is the journey okay?

    Yup

    _____________________________

    Not your average bimbo.

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    Profile   Post #: 17
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 3:36:56 PM   
    ThatDizzyChick


    Posts: 5490
    Status: offline
    quote:

    In fact, if there wasn't any element of choice involved, then his sacrifice wouldn't have any significance, would it?

    It has no significance as it is. The whole idea makes zero sense when you think about it. God sacrifices himself to himself and yet doesn't die, therefore there was no sacrifice after all since nothing was given up. What's more this sacrifice seems not to have redeemed anything, seeing as those who believe in the bogus sacrifice also believe in a eternal Hell where sinners are punished, thus no redemption from the bogus sacrifice.

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    Profile   Post #: 18
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 3:41:28 PM   
    Termyn8or


    Posts: 18681
    Joined: 11/12/2005
    Status: offline     		Worked for a devout Christian, tried to convert me.

    He said "What if it is true ?".

    To believe out of fear is the highest form of hypocrisy. I die and it is true and god supposedly can read my mind and says "So you just pretended to believe in me out of fear ?". What the fuck would I say. As it is I can look him in the eye and say "How come you didn't give humanity a little more guidance instead of letting it become the shithole I died in ?".

    Send me to hell, if that is god I would rather deal with the devil.

    T^T

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    Profile   Post #: 19
    RE: God and BDSM - 9/5/2016 3:44:29 PM   
    ThatDizzyChick


    Posts: 5490
    Status: offline
    quote:

    He said "What if it is true ?".

    Oh that's easy. If it's true then God is a misogynistic genocidal schizoid maniac worthy only of denigration.

    _____________________________

    Not your average bimbo.

    (in reply to Termyn8or)
    Profile   Post #: 20
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