Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women?

Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (Full Version)

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respectmen -> Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/5/2016 1:50:18 AM)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-mortal/201609/is-modern-academic-feminism-harming-women All women need to do is to work as hard as men if they want to get far in life. Christina Hoff Sommers knows this. Any woman with a functioning brain knows this. If the feminuts realised this instead of blaming men for everything and expecting men to hand them everything on a silver platter, there would be a far better outcome for the little darlings. Hey, I know, instead of taking a women's study course, why not take a course in STEM instead. Gotta larf.

MrRodgers -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/5/2016 10:04:51 AM)
Once again I have very up close and personal experience with the fallacy here. A very close relative spent almost 20 years at Aetna insurance. [She] went with a smaller casualty & property insurance co. nearer her home. They needed and hired her as VP of claims which was what her area was at Aetna. They started her at $84K and told her up front that should she do the job as they expected she could, she would get a fairly substantial raise every year until what ? Until she was being paid as much as the male VP's were already making. That $84K went to $96K the next year and $108K the following, whereupon any future raises would be solely on merit...not due to previous sexism. As in marketing, being that there exists these anecdotal facts, the are at least 100 more within the same local market and country wide...even more than that. Oh and she also raised two daughters during all of this.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/5/2016 3:27:50 PM)
quote: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? Nope.

Nnanji -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/5/2016 4:41:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Once again I have very up close and personal experience with the fallacy here. A very close relative spent almost 20 years at Aetna insurance. [She] went with a smaller casualty & property insurance co. nearer her home. They needed and hired her as VP of claims which was what her area was at Aetna. They started her at $84K and told her up front that should she do the job as they expected she could, she would get a fairly substantial raise every year until what ? Until she was being paid as much as the male VP's were already making. That $84K went to $96K the next year and $108K the following, whereupon any future raises would be solely on merit...not due to previous sexism. As in marketing, being that there exists these anecdotal facts, the are at least 100 more within the same local market and country wide...even more than that. Oh and she also raised two daughters during all of this. There's so much BS in that story it would be difficult to start pointing it out.

MrRodgers -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/6/2016 9:52:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Once again I have very up close and personal experience with the fallacy here. A very close relative spent almost 20 years at Aetna insurance. [She] went with a smaller casualty & property insurance co. nearer her home. They needed and hired her as VP of claims which was what her area was at Aetna. They started her at $84K and told her up front that should she do the job as they expected she could, she would get a fairly substantial raise every year until what ? Until she was being paid as much as the male VP's were already making. That $84K went to $96K the next year and $108K the following, whereupon any future raises would be solely on merit...not due to previous sexism. As in marketing, being that there exists these anecdotal facts, the are at least 100 more within the same local market and country wide...even more than that. Oh and she also raised two daughters during all of this. There's so much BS in that story it would be difficult to start pointing it out. Apparently too difficult for you.

Termyn8or -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/7/2016 4:51:43 AM)
"Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? " It will be when they start getting drafted into the military. T^T

Awareness -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 9:51:10 AM)
Well, by every measure we've taken, women are unhappier than they've ever been. Apparently feminism doesn't create a paradise. Go figure.

thishereboi -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 9:55:13 AM)
I'm not sure if it's harming women, but it seems to be driving you crazy. Don't you have any other interests or do you think about this 24/7

Awareness -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 9:57:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I'm not sure if it's harming women, but it seems to be driving you crazy. Don't you have any other interests or do you think about this 24/7 Isn't that somewhat ironic, given that you post in pretty much all of his threads?

smartsub10 -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 10:01:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: respectmen https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-mortal/201609/is-modern-academic-feminism-harming-women All women need to do is to work as hard as men if they want to get far in life. Christina Hoff Sommers knows this. Any woman with a functioning brain knows this. If the feminuts realised this instead of blaming men for everything and expecting men to hand them everything on a silver platter, there would be a far better outcome for the little darlings. Hey, I know, instead of taking a women's study course, why not take a course in STEM instead. Gotta larf. I grew up in a dysfunctional family. Escaped as soon as I could when I turned 18. Left behind a mother who couldn't give a shit what happened to me. I worked full time days and went to school at night. Sometimes I worked an additional part-time job to make ends meet. It took almost ten years to finally graduate with a science degree. Got a job in research and worked my way up to a management position in a Contract Research Organization earning six figures. No help at all from anyone. Not complaining just stating a fact. Oh yeah, not one mention of silver platters or men handing me success.

Awareness -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 10:20:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smartsub10 quote: ORIGINAL: respectmen https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-mortal/201609/is-modern-academic-feminism-harming-women All women need to do is to work as hard as men if they want to get far in life. Christina Hoff Sommers knows this. Any woman with a functioning brain knows this. If the feminuts realised this instead of blaming men for everything and expecting men to hand them everything on a silver platter, there would be a far better outcome for the little darlings. Hey, I know, instead of taking a women's study course, why not take a course in STEM instead. Gotta larf. I grew up in a dysfunctional family. Escaped as soon as I could when I turned 18. Left behind a mother who couldn't give a shit what happened to me. I worked full time days and went to school at night. Sometimes I worked an additional part-time job to make ends meet. It took almost ten years to finally graduate with a science degree. Got a job in research and worked my way up to a management position in a Contract Research Organization earning six figures. No help at all from anyone. Not complaining just stating a fact. Oh yeah, not one mention of silver platters or men handing me success. So basically, you're saying you worked as hard as a man. Sounds to me like you just supported what he said.

JeffBC -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 12:44:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: respectmen All women need to do is to work as hard as men if they want to get far in life. Christina Hoff Sommers knows this. Any woman with a functioning brain knows this. If the feminuts realised this instead of blaming men for everything and expecting men to hand them everything on a silver platter, there would be a far better outcome for the little darlings. Hey, I know, instead of taking a women's study course, why not take a course in STEM instead. Gotta larf. If only that were true, of course. From my immediate personal experience, I once worked at a corporate and the culture of that corporate was HUGELY focused on meritocracy... no reserved parking spaces... no executive offices... none of that stuff. Imagine our surprise when we found out we had substantial differences in the rates of promotion between men and women... even when the women were very clearly well positioned for promotion. So the message came down from on high... for this year's review process, start with the women who haven't been promoted in a while and look closely at ones who were obviously long overdue. If you find them, spend your promotion budget there first. This really should not have happened in this particular culture. I used to only half-jokingly say that I was pretty sure I could come into work stark naked except for a chicken strapped to my head and if I got my work done, nobody'd care. There was no plot to advance men faster than women and most of the management team was aghast that that's how the numbers had turned out. Even given the way the guidance was phrased from on high... which seems completely defensible from any conceivable angle, there was at least some grumbling about preferential treatment.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 1:11:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Once again I have very up close and personal experience with the fallacy here. A very close relative spent almost 20 years at Aetna insurance. [She] went with a smaller casualty & property insurance co. nearer her home. They needed and hired her as VP of claims which was what her area was at Aetna. They started her at $84K and told her up front that should she do the job as they expected she could, she would get a fairly substantial raise every year until what ? Until she was being paid as much as the male VP's were already making. That $84K went to $96K the next year and $108K the following, whereupon any future raises would be solely on merit...not due to previous sexism. As in marketing, being that there exists these anecdotal facts, the are at least 100 more within the same local market and country wide...even more than that. Oh and she also raised two daughters during all of this. There's so much BS in that story it would be difficult to start pointing it out. Apparently too difficult for you. As someone who worked in the insurance industry (A good portion of time for a company as large or larger than Aetna), I'll take a stab at one part: quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers ... They started her at $84K and told her up front that should she do the job as they expected she could, she would get a fairly substantial raise every year until what ? Until she was being paid as much as the male VP's were already making. So ... the obvious, glaring question is: Were those male VPs hired at the same time she was or had they been "doing the job as the company suspected they could" for a number of years? Michael

WickedsDesire -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 1:19:56 PM)
History is curious From Cleopatra to witch ( she is gone from the internet I miss her- yes of course we met and yes she brought proper chocolate- and what a mind that one) If you are asking me are all women (>99% rule which is less than my bell end curve 95%) drunk on entitlement on these sites - then my answer is absolutely edit for balance For balance i will cite about 85% of men are drunk on entitlement

JeffBC -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 1:35:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr So ... the obvious, glaring question is: Were those male VPs hired at the same time she was or had they been "doing the job as the company suspected they could" for a number of years? Agreed. I don't find MR's story very supportive of his claim even though, by my previous post, I'm sympathetic to the claim itself.

PeonForHer -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 2:42:20 PM)
quote: All women need to do is to work as hard as men if they want to get far in life. Christina Hoff Sommers knows this. Any woman with a functioning brain knows this. If the feminuts realised this instead of blaming men for everything and expecting men to hand them everything on a silver platter, there would be a far better outcome for the little darlings. Hey, I know, instead of taking a women's study course, why not take a course in STEM instead. Gotta larf. Strewth. Since what seems like the Dawn of Time Itself you've been coming here to blame feminists for everything and expecting women and the world in general to hand over everything to you on a silver platter. Jesus, Nick, have you never heard the the line 'those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'?

MrRodgers -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 3:42:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Once again I have very up close and personal experience with the fallacy here. A very close relative spent almost 20 years at Aetna insurance. [She] went with a smaller casualty & property insurance co. nearer her home. They needed and hired her as VP of claims which was what her area was at Aetna. They started her at $84K and told her up front that should she do the job as they expected she could, she would get a fairly substantial raise every year until what ? Until she was being paid as much as the male VP's were already making. That $84K went to $96K the next year and $108K the following, whereupon any future raises would be solely on merit...not due to previous sexism. As in marketing, being that there exists these anecdotal facts, the are at least 100 more within the same local market and country wide...even more than that. Oh and she also raised two daughters during all of this. There's so much BS in that story it would be difficult to start pointing it out. Apparently too difficult for you. As someone who worked in the insurance industry (A good portion of time for a company as large or larger than Aetna), I'll take a stab at one part: quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers ... They started her at $84K and told her up front that should she do the job as they expected she could, she would get a fairly substantial raise every year until what ? Until she was being paid as much as the male VP's were already making. So ... the obvious, glaring question is: Were those male VPs hired at the same time she was or had they been "doing the job as the company suspected they could" for a number of years? Michael Actually to be honest, I don't know. The males could have been recent hires or been there for years and quite frankly...never thought to ask since starting at $84K was pretty decent.

MrRodgers -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 3:50:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr So ... the obvious, glaring question is: Were those male VPs hired at the same time she was or had they been "doing the job as the company suspected they could" for a number of years? Agreed. I don't find MR's story very supportive of his claim even though, by my previous post, I'm sympathetic to the claim itself. Admittedly, a narrow anecdotal example of a little pay disparity. One problem too is, to what extent the other VP positions required say a professional degree or had more responsibility or.....? The whole issue may have been and I rather think so, is that she may have been starting out as they did but management wanted to see, make sure and then bring her pay to theirs, in 3 years and by which time I am sure, [they]...would be making even more.

JeffBC -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 4:09:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers The whole issues may have been and I rather think so, is that she may have been starting out as they did but management wanted to see, make sure and then bring her pay to theirs, in 3 years and by which time I am sure, [they]...were making even more. But even were that true, that is SOP. I was a grade 7 in my last job. I made less than most other grade 7's because I was pretty new to the position and had not accumulated raises in that grade. I feel like my anecdotal story was much more on-target. There I was talking about women who'd been in grade for longer (sometimes much longer and with glowing annual reviews) and yet hadn't been promoted and weren't at pay equity much less earning more. There really wasn't any room for alternate theories. They had been screwed over. The powers that be wanted that fixed... promptly. What is particularly concerning is that my story happened in a corporate culture where it should never have occurred to start with and where, when it was discovered, brass very much wanted to fix it. There were no "old dinosaurs preserving the patriachy". There was just the [larger] cultural bias affecting the corporate culture invisibly.

MrRodgers -> RE: Is Modern Academic Feminism Harming Women? (9/8/2016 4:52:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers The whole issues may have been and I rather think so, is that she may have been starting out as they did but management wanted to see, make sure and then bring her pay to theirs, in 3 years and by which time I am sure, [they]...were making even more. But even were that true, that is SOP. I was a grade 7 in my last job. I made less than most other grade 7's because I was pretty new to the position and had not accumulated raises in that grade. I feel like my anecdotal story was much more on-target. There I was talking about women who'd been in grade for longer (sometimes much longer and with glowing annual reviews) and yet hadn't been promoted and weren't at pay equity much less earning more. There really wasn't any room for alternate theories. They had been screwed over. The powers that be wanted that fixed... promptly. What is particularly concerning is that my story happened in a corporate culture where it should never have occurred to start with and where, when it was discovered, brass very much wanted to fix it. There were no "old dinosaurs preserving the patriachy". There was just the [larger] cultural bias affecting the corporate culture invisibly. The only question that remains and it may have been true, is that the male VP's at this co. may have been making somewhat over 6 figures from the start or at the very least, some time ago and the way [she] told me about this...implied that. And I am thinking, that's why the rather definite raise schedule. Yes, in your situation, what was wrong seems pretty blatant.

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