If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (Full Version)

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CreativeDominant -> If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 8:29:53 AM)

"I am also of Irish descent & always grew up being proud of my heritage. I didn't learn any of these facts until I took a history class in college. I wanted to crawl under the table when I first heard it. Now, I've come to surmise that it's not necessarily taught because the Irish moved on & by not dwelling on past atrocities, we've been able to raise our status in the world. Wouldn't it be awesome if all races were just proud & focused on the bright future & not the dark past?".

http://settingrecordstraight.blogspot.com/2015/03/irish-forgotten-white-slaves.html?m=1




BamaD -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 9:03:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

"I am also of Irish descent & always grew up being proud of my heritage. I didn't learn any of these facts until I took a history class in college. I wanted to crawl under the table when I first heard it. Now, I've come to surmise that it's not necessarily taught because the Irish moved on & by not dwelling on past atrocities, we've been able to raise our status in the world. Wouldn't it be awesome if all races were just proud & focused on the bright future & not the dark past?".

http://settingrecordstraight.blogspot.com/2015/03/irish-forgotten-white-slaves.html?m=1

Yes I knew about much of this and have even alluded to some of it.
It is always dismissed by blacks and people afflicted with white guilt.
It is simply not correct to talk about this as it is assumed that somehow pointing it out is justifing black slavery.




WhoreMods -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 9:32:51 AM)

The Irish who still have a chip on their shoulder about Cromwell, you mean?
Yeah, dead forward looking and entirely disinterested in the past.




mnottertail -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 9:53:06 AM)

What I found most intriguing about the Irish is their hatred of all things English, and proving it by fighting amongst themselves with the catholic-protestant thing, that bloody showed ya.




CreativeDominant -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 9:53:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

The Irish who still have a chip on their shoulder about Cromwell, you mean?
Yeah, dead forward looking and entirely disinterested in the past.

Let's hear more about this, whoremods...what does this "chip" entail? An active dislike of the British, lawsuits against Cromwell's family?




WhoreMods -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 9:55:06 AM)

A bombing campaign through thirty odd years.
You should have heard of that: it was dickheads who think they're Irish in your country paying for it.




BamaD -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 9:57:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

The Irish who still have a chip on their shoulder about Cromwell, you mean?
Yeah, dead forward looking and entirely disinterested in the past.

The Irish I have known who take any pride in being Irish ignore all of those things. They focus on the charming rogue. They may have a "chip" on their shoulder, but their whole lives do not revolve around the injustice of the past.




Kirata -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:11:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

"I am also of Irish descent & always grew up being proud of my heritage. I didn't learn any of these facts until I took a history class in college. I wanted to crawl under the table when I first heard it. Now, I've come to surmise that it's not necessarily taught because the Irish moved on & by not dwelling on past atrocities, we've been able to raise our status in the world. Wouldn't it be awesome if all races were just proud & focused on the bright future & not the dark past?".

http://settingrecordstraight.blogspot.com/2015/03/irish-forgotten-white-slaves.html

And, it wasn't just the Irish in the Colonies. Europeans suffered losses numbering in the millions to Mediterranean slavers whose raids extended as far north as Iceland.

K.




BamaD -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:16:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

"I am also of Irish descent & always grew up being proud of my heritage. I didn't learn any of these facts until I took a history class in college. I wanted to crawl under the table when I first heard it. Now, I've come to surmise that it's not necessarily taught because the Irish moved on & by not dwelling on past atrocities, we've been able to raise our status in the world. Wouldn't it be awesome if all races were just proud & focused on the bright future & not the dark past?".

http://settingrecordstraight.blogspot.com/2015/03/irish-forgotten-white-slaves.html

And, it wasn't just the Irish in the Colonies. Europeans suffered losses numbering in the millions to Mediterranean slavers whose raids extended as far north as Iceland.

K.


Everyone has ancestors who were oppressed. And everyone has ancestors who were oppressors.




CreativeDominant -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:24:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

A bombing campaign through thirty odd years.
You should have heard of that: it was dickheads who think they're Irish in your country paying for it.
Would that be an act of revenge for Cornwall's brutality at Digress? Which some historians believe was, in itself, retaliation by Cornwall (a Protestant and Parliamentarian) for the Rebellion of 1641 fueled by the Catholic Church and Monarchists?

And what does your argument have to do with the enslavement and selling of the Irish? Other than Cornwall approving of it?




WhoreMods -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:26:51 AM)

What bearing does the Irish obsession with the stuff the English did to them in the past have on the hilariously false line you quoted in your OP?




sloguy02246 -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:30:33 AM)

OP:

No.




BamaD -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:32:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

What bearing does the Irish obsession with the stuff the English did to them in the past have on the hilariously false line you quoted in your OP?

What hilariously false line would that be.




WhoreMods -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:38:39 AM)

The line about the Irish being focussed on the bright future and not the dark past.




dcnovice -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:46:59 AM)

FR

Interesting read. Thanks, CD.

A few thoughts:

(a) The sweet idealism of the comment CD quoted seems somewhat at odds with the undercurrent of bitterness and competitive misery throughout the actual blog entry.

(b) In a U.S. context, it would be interesting to know how long Irish slavery lasted and what the Irish equivalents of Jim Crow (NINA signs, maybe?) and systemic disenfranchisement were. And is there a history, into the 20th century, of lynching Irish Americans?

(c) My sense of recent news is that African Americans appear most perturbed about things happening today, about folks being shot now, not in some shadowy past they can't "let go of."




dcnovice -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:53:38 AM)

FR

Fwiw in terms of Irish focus on the present rather than the past, didn't Ireland remain neutral during World War II? Antipathy toward Britain seemed to outweigh horror at what the Axis powers were doing.

ETA:

Leon Uris's powerful Trinity: A Novel of Ireland ends with a haunting line: "For you see, in Ireland there is no future, only the past happening over and over."




vincentML -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:54:22 AM)

~FR~

A dangerous myth

The prevalence and endurance of this myth is partly due to the fact that it is buttressed by two long-standing narratives. The first narrative comes from the arena of Irish nationalism, where the term 'slavery' is used to highlight the political, social and religious subjugation or persecution that the Irish have historically suffered. In this narrative, the term ‘Irish slaves’ refers specifically to those who were forced onto transport ships and sold into indentured servitude in the West Indies during the Cromwellian era. The 'innocent' usage of this phrase is, to a degree, understandable and its conflation with chattel slavery generally occurs due to a mixture of ignorance and confusion. More objectionable is the canon of pseudo-history books like O'Callaghan's To Hell or Barbados or Walsh and Jordan's White Cargo, which knowingly conflate indentured servitude and chattel slavery. The ‘Irish slaves’ myth is also a convenient focal point for nationalist histories as it obscures the critically underwritten story of how so many Irish people, whether Gaelic, Hiberno-Norman or Anglo-Irish, benefited from the Atlantic slave trade and other colonial exploits in multiple continents for hundreds of years.

The second narrative is of a more sinister nature. Found in the websites and forums of white supremacist conspiracy theorists, this insidiously claims that indentured servitude can be equated with chattel slavery. From Stormfront.org, a self-described online community of white nationalists, to David Icke’s February 2014 interview with Infowars.com, the narrative of the ‘White slaves’ is continuously promoted. The most influential book to claim that there was ‘white slavery’ in Colonial America was Michael Hoffman’s They Were White and They Were Slaves: The Untold History of the Enslavement of Whites in Early America. Self-published in 1993, Hoffman, a Holocaust denier, unsurprisingly blames the Atlantic slave trade on the Jews. By blurring the lines between the different forms of unfree labour, these white supremacists seek to conceal the incontestable fact that these slavocracies were controlled by—and operated for the benefit of—white Europeans. This narrative, which exists almost exclusively in the United States, is essentially a form of nativism and racism masquerading as conspiracy theory. Those that push this narrative have now adopted the ‘Irish slaves’ myth, and they use it as a rhetorical ‘attack dog’ which aims to shut down all debate about the legacy of black slavery in the United States.

In the wake of the Ferguson shooting, both of these narratives were conjoined in a particularly ugly fashion. Many social media users, including some Irish-Americans, invoked this mythology to chide African-Americans for protesting against the structural racism that exists in the United States (see a collection of tweets on ‘Irish slaves’, gathered by the author). Furthermore, they used these falsehoods to mock African-American calls for reparations for slavery, stating “my Irish ancestors were the first slaves in America, where are my reparations?” Those that share links to spurious ‘Irish slavery’ articles on social media have also been appending their posts with the hashtags #Ferguson and #NoExcuses. No excuses? This myth of convenience is being utilised by those who are unwilling to accept the truth of their white privilege and the prevalence of an entrenched racism in their societies. There is clearly comfort to be found in denialism.

The conflation present in both narratives has been abetted by the deliberate use of a limited vocabulary. The inclination to describe these different forms of servitude using the umbrella term “slavery” is a wilful misuse of language. It serves to diminish the reality of the chattel slave system that existed in the New World for over three centuries. It is also a reminder that the popular use of such a simplistic term as ‘modern-day slavery’ can reduce clarity and hinder our collective understanding of both the present and the past.

source

Hmmmm . . . there seems to be some dispute about the validity of the OP's claim.




BamaD -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 10:59:55 AM)

CD

Told you it is dismissed as a racist plot to diminish the enslavement of Africans.




vincentML -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 11:01:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

CD

Told you it is dismissed as a racist plot to diminish the enslavement of Africans.

Apparently so.




BamaD -> RE: If you're over 55, do you remember being taught this? (9/22/2016 11:10:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

CD

Told you it is dismissed as a racist plot to diminish the enslavement of Africans.

Apparently so.

Maybe dismissing this is racist.




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