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RE: Racism? - 12/8/2004 5:30:05 AM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

If you didn't have *ANY* bias. . .we'd sleep with ANYONE

or all you have to be is a guy, and if the testosterone isn't enough to make you, um, . . . "unbiased", just add a few beers.



Harumph! I am quite biased about whom I sleep with, thank you, and no amount of intoxication has ever changed my criteria for whom I sleep with. Of course, since my criteria has more to do with intellect, education, and interests, than any specific body type, I suppose my input is tangental to the conversation at hand.

Or maybe it isn't. It is a serious bias. I will only become physically intimate with those whom I consider to be my intellectual equals or my superiors. An inferior mind, an undisciplined mind, is of no interest to me, and frequently becomes an annoyance. While not racist, I am elitist, and a similar rhetorical line can be drawn from this parallel.

I would consider it an act of hypocracy to proclaim an elitist preference in one sentence, and then decry that same elitism in the next paragraph. I suppose the same might be said for a profile that spends some time extolling the virtues of marxism, after first demanding that all slaves provide monetary tribute. It's not that the belief system is wrong, or that the kink is wrong, just that put together they come off sounding rather two-faced.

However, I feel obliged to expound upon a point that others have made. You use the dictionary meaning of racism, when that word is far more highly charged than Webster's gives it credit for. Negro is simply the latin word for black, after all, so why don't we use that word to describe anything that fits the epithet? Because it is a word highly charged with other meaning. I could say that I have negro hair. It's quite dark (what parts haven't turned grey). But if I said that, it would immediately imply that I have hair like a black person's, and while my hair is curly, it is nothing like that. Likewise, the word racism has connotations which far exceed the literal meaning of that word, and it is that additional subtext to which the respondants are reacting.

When people say that they do not think your cited example is racist, they are giving a response based upon the full cultural, contextural meaning of racism, not just the webster's definition of it. Within that fuller context, I would have to agree with them.

Similarly, once this deeper contextual meaning to the term "racist" is taken into account, you can see that there is no contradiction involved. The person should have used the term bigot, which is more accurate, but in the modern era, racist and bigot have esssentially interchangeable meanings. Context is key to communication, especially when utilizing the woefully inadequate english language, which places far more emphasis on contextualization than actual syntax, grammar, or definition. New words are coined all the time, and frequently become installed within the english lexicon in the span of only a few years, because we learn the meaning and utilization of the new word from contextual inference. Our language is constantly mutating because of this, to the point that there are not only regional variations, but generational dialects as well. This is wonderful for poets, but a horror story for technicians.

But hey, what do I know? For me, "thingee" is a technical term. The sad thing is I can make myself understood using such highly technical references.

::sigh:: I'm rambling again. I've gotta stop staying up so late. I'm pretty sure I answered the original question somewhere in here.

~S

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Racism? - 12/8/2004 10:38:36 AM   
MsCameron


Posts: 238
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

I have a question which is appropriate here i think. My daughter, caucasian, has always been attracted to african american men. We have no problem with that. She is bringing her new b/f home for xmas this year and we haven't even asked what his race is. She says he's "the one", so we are anxious to meet him. My question is--is anyone here in an interracial marriage and if so what problems, if any, have arisen from it?


Well, a little story if you don't mind :)

My upbringing was very different if not a little odd.

My mother was married to a back Jamaican when I was young. My uncle, who was gay, was life partnered to a black man. They were together for 27 years until my uncles death 10 years ago.
I always had people of colour and gay people in my family. It was the way I was brought up.

While I am Canadian, I lived in the states, just outside of Philly during the late 60's and early 70's. As many know or remember, it was a time of radical change. Vietnam protesting was in full force and the civil rights movement, while having made great strides, was still not accepted.
I remember my high school being shut down for racial riots. I was accepted by most of the white kids (but certainly not all) because I was white and I was accepted by the black kids because my step-father was black.

At that time, there was not a lot of cross over between the two groups. I think I was somewhere in the middle.

I do know that I heard the words "nigger lover" more times then I can count. I do know there were a fair amount of white kids that couldn't come to my house because their parents could not deal with my mother being with a black man.
This is what I came to term as "reverse racism" and it was alive and well during that time and probably still is to some degree.

Racism and discrimination is ugly no matter how it comes. I still get odd looks when I happen to mention how I grew up. "your step-father was what??"

For myself, I grew up with a wonderful influence of many cultures. My sister and I have a great memory of watching the Santa Clause parade in Toronto from the window of Club Jamaica with a record of Aretha Franklin playing "respect" in the background :)

Proudsub.. as far as your daughters boy friend goes.. They may encounter some problems, some discrimination but I'm sure they already know that. I don't think it's as bad as it used to be.

chuckling.. My niece came home from school one day quite irritated about her race being called "white". She declared to all of us that it was the most ridiculous thing she had ever heard. After all, we're not white, we are peach! That's right she said, we are peach people!

I like that :) Peach people.

MsC

< Message edited by MsCameron -- 12/8/2004 10:59:30 AM >

_____________________________

I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going, going...
Lateralis.Tool

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Racism? - 12/8/2004 2:27:52 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		Thank you MsCameron, you have an interesting background.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to MsCameron)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Racism? - 12/11/2004 11:57:04 PM   
Nvernilla


Posts: 303
Joined: 10/1/2004
Status: offline 		Yes I think the term I heard was reverse racism. Intolerance of any kind sux regardless of who it is directed at...Mike

(in reply to AlphaGeek)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Racism? - 12/12/2004 2:46:18 AM   
DOMinoe


Posts: 1
Joined: 12/6/2004
Status: offline 		Troubling, but yet indulging to ones intellectual thought process. This strong topic has many diverse opinions inwhich leaves many feeling to the left or right. My position on this subject is neither of the ladder. We all have the same characteristics; for example, we all have noses, we all have mouths, we all have legs and arms. You get the general drift I am trying to imply. Last time I checked the book of life and other various observations, we all bleed the same, cry the same, and even laugh the same. The only difference that seperates us humans in my opinion is pigmentation. Because my pigmentation is lighter than some one who's pigmentation is darker, I am considered attractive and superior. Because of this one tiny little difference that society places tremendous weight on, racism is flourishing in every corner of the world today; this difference is what troubles me and many around the world. Don't decide ones fate or destiny because of their race or color of thier skin, but simply by their intelligence, worldly travels, experiences, education, creativity, body language, observations, knowledge, etc. If we all see one color like I do, then just maybe (not saying that this will happen), racism will cease to exist and we all can enjoy happiness and the tranquillity of life. If you treat people how you want to be treated, then life will grant one all the riches their are to enjoy in this small world that we live in. Be well everyone.

(in reply to Suleiman)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Racism? - 12/12/2004 9:11:52 AM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline
quote:

The only difference that seperates us humans in my opinion is pigmentation.


Actually, there are a multitude of things that "separates" us. . .as you yourself point out in a later part of your post.

quote:

Don't decide ones fate or destiny because of their race or color of thier skin, but simply by their intelligence, worldly travels, experiences, education, creativity, body language, observations, knowledge, etc.


See? And all these other differences lends itself to other "isms." At the crux of it, the purpose of racism is the divide. Once the division is made, then different qualities can be ascribed to each of the divided parts. One will get favorable qualities and the other will get unfavorable qualities.
The color of one's skin is just *one* of the ways we differentiate ourselves from others. It's just a fact of life. How we perceive any sort of difference (ethinicity or otherwise) and act on it. . .well. . .that what we have to work on, eh?
You don't have to look far to see evidence of the "find-a-difference-seek-and-berate" mentality. Look at some of the threads on this board. Granted, it isn't about race. . .but people have this quirky habit of viewing things in a "this-ain't-me-so-it-is-bad" way.

Jules

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Racism? - 12/25/2004 6:35:32 AM   
MistressKyley


Posts: 3
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I am an interracial child...Who also dates only white men...I wouldnt worry so much about "problems" arising from their relationship, it just isnt an issue anymore. When My parents where dating it was a huge deal, and the products from those marriages where hated more then just the regular african americans because We are part white, but it is not such a biig deal now. There may be an occassional a-hole but they can get around that. I hope they have a beautiful life together...
Besides We Mollatos are beautiful people;)

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Racism? - 12/25/2004 10:57:17 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

I am an interracial child...Who also dates only white men...I wouldnt worry so much about "problems" arising from their relationship, it just isnt an issue anymore.


Thank you, i hope you're right.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to MistressKyley)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Racism? - 12/29/2004 5:44:25 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

< Message edited by MistressDREAD -- 12/29/2004 5:48:20 PM >

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Racism? - 12/29/2004 5:47:22 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Greatt Kyley,
your malatto
and Im mulatta
and Im sure you
can see that Jules
is well Georgious!

Us Mixed Race Folks know
the worlds a changin for
the betta!

~No worries Mon!~

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Racism? - 12/29/2004 8:12:34 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

I have a question which is appropriate here i think. My daughter, caucasian, has always been attracted to african american men. We have no problem with that. She is bringing her new b/f home for xmas this year and we haven't even asked what his race is. She says he's "the one", so we are anxious to meet him. My question is--is anyone here in an interracial marriage and if so what problems, if any, have arisen from it?


Well the b/f just left for the airport. We had a wonderful visit and we couldn't be happier for the two of them. We would be very proud to have him as our son-in-law someday.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Racism? - 12/30/2004 7:58:44 AM   
MsCameron


Posts: 238
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

I have a question which is appropriate here i think. My daughter, caucasian, has always been attracted to african american men. We have no problem with that. She is bringing her new b/f home for xmas this year and we haven't even asked what his race is. She says he's "the one", so we are anxious to meet him. My question is--is anyone here in an interracial marriage and if so what problems, if any, have arisen from it?


Well the b/f just left for the airport. We had a wonderful visit and we couldn't be happier for the two of them. We would be very proud to have him as our son-in-law someday.


Glad to hear it :) I was wondering how things went.

Happy New Year to you proudsub. I, like others, appreciate the help you provide on these forums.

Kind regards,
MsC


_____________________________

I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going, going...
Lateralis.Tool

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Racism? - 12/30/2004 11:11:38 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Happy New Year to you proudsub. I, like others, appreciate the help you provide on these forums.


Thank you MsCameron and Happy New Year to you too, and everyone in the forums here.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to MsCameron)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Racism? - 1/9/2005 4:08:42 AM   
Manawyddan


Posts: 701
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Petaluma (Northern California)
Status: offline 		Of course, everyone has personal preferences, but that's not the only thing at issue here.

I have a strong aesthetic preference for petite women with dark hair and Semetic features. However, I would never put in a post, "if you're overweight, don't reply" or "if you're blonde, don't reply." My preferences are not absolute, and I've dated taller women, heavier women, redheaded women ...

Stating something the way the ad under discussion does, makes it clear that ethnicity is such an important factor that it overwhelms any other quality a person might have ... even any other PHYSICAL quality. That alone makes me suspect of someone.

Another factor is ... I've had several people of my acquaintence (usually women) tell me, "I have nothing against blacks, but I couldn't date one" ... well if they were not racist ... why bother to state it? Why couldn't the person who posted the ad simply not responded to any woman of color who wrote to him, or turned them down in a polite manner?

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Racism? - 1/9/2005 10:13:45 PM   
bottominwa


Posts: 240
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		This girl was raised in a very racist home, when Master was stationed at Ft Polk, LA it was the first time this girl ever had the opportunity to be around...more surrounded...lol by anything other than rednecks..lol. she developed what is now one of the best and endearing friendships of her life with a Palestinian woman married to a black soldier. We all lived in the same building and it became the norm to have bbqs in Our yard....one night after a little too much red wine this girl said to Calvin, the black soldier..."Does it make me racist that i have never been attracted to a black man" and His response still cracks this girl up thinking about it.....He looked at this girl....looked into his beer, swirled it around a bit then said still staring ahead in his Alabama drawl... "nope, just makes you sheltered" and took a drink.

LOL

It's amazing how much different surroundings can change a person....at the very core.

So her two cents...no not wanting a certain race doesn't make you racist just as this girl's friend says "sheltered".

sabrina King

House of King

(in reply to Manawyddan)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Racism? - 1/9/2005 11:58:03 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		What difference does it make? I fail to see why it's better not to make your preferences known. Suppose I don't want to get involved with anyone in law enforcement. Is it better for me NOT to say this and waste people's time, or is it better for me just to say it right in my profile?

Getting offended just because someone doesn't want to date people of your color is pointless. I don't get pissed off when black people state that they want to date only black people--and there are plenty of profiles like that.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manawyddan

Why couldn't the person who posted the ad simply not responded to any woman of color who wrote to him, or turned them down in a polite manner?


(in reply to Manawyddan)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Racism? - 1/10/2005 6:55:49 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
What difference does it make? I fail to see why it's better not to make your preferences known.
Getting offended just because someone doesn't want to date people of your color is pointless. I don't get pissed off when black people state that they want to date only black people--and there are plenty of profiles like that.
Lam

Because when it is based entirely on skin color/ethnicity, It Is racist. This is a simple discussion on different people's point of view; I agree with you that it's pointless to get pissed off because someone doesn't want to have an intimate relationship with you (and I already stated that earlier), and further agree that these people should feel free to show their prejudices, as I personally prefer to know and not waste my time, rather than not. M

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Racism? - 1/28/2005 4:54:16 AM   
thnkiwntaspank


Posts: 26
Joined: 1/16/2005
Status: offline 		Hello all! Yes I am new here, and silly me, this is the first thing I choose to post to.

I believe I know of which ad Alpha speaks. I saw it when I first joined as I was searching through the profiles in my area/state. Folks, let me promise you...the ad is most definately racist! Given the scenario of searching for a slave of a specific color and a screen name which offers a not so subtle attachment to well known hate group...Well, for the sake of all the slaves of that ethnicity, I pray he is unsuccessful in his search!

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Racism? - 1/28/2005 6:46:15 PM   
draven316


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/28/2005
Status: offline 		in england today was uproar cos the football association (thats proper football, not pansies with body armour on) made a film on 50 greatest players and there wasnt a black or ethnic one in the 50, so was called racist by a press and media

(in reply to Suleiman)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Racism? - 1/29/2005 12:00:11 AM   
MadameDahlia


Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
Status: offline 		According to my anthropology text (Physical Anthropology 8th Edition) race is defined:

“Biologically, a race is a division of species; a subspecies. In common usage, the term race refers to social, not biological categories of living Homo sapiens.” (Glossary)

That entry then refers me to the entry “Folk Taxonomy” which is defined:

“Classification of some class of phenomena based on cultural tradition.” (Glossary)

When looking up folk taxonomy in the book to find out more I found the quote: “Races do not exist; classifications of mankind do.”

I’m of the opinion that everyone is biased in one form or another. Sometimes it may not even be something a person is aware of. But bias has been pushed into a negative category over the years.

Dictionary.com lists “A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment” as the first entry to describe bias.

Gregor Mendel discovered the basic laws of heredity. He published these in 1868. Almost all of human genetics are alike. There are a very small number of genetic differences in humans and these are referred to as Mendelian traits.

These genetics affect whether or not your earlobes are attached to your head or free hanging, how full your lips will be, the color of your eyes and hair, whether or not you will have freckles or dimples. They also determine how much pigment your skin contains. I believe, though I may be wrong on the exact percentage, that we as humans only differ by .01% in our genetics. That .01% are Mendelian traits – which mainly determine your features.

Getting back on topic… pardon the rambling.

Some people prefer not to smoke. Does that mean that they can’t appreciate a person who does smoke? Does that mean they’d be any less friendly with that person? I don’t think so. And I don’t think having personal preferences is a bad or cruel thing. It simply is.

Some people are fond of forced feminization. Some aren’t. Just because it isn’t their cup of tea doesn’t mean they can’t be friends with a person who just loves slipping into a pair of new heels.

People are products of their upbringing, surroundings and collective information that they have absorbed and processed in one way or another. If you are familiar with a certain feature or idea, if you grew up surrounded by a particular feature/idea you’re probably more inclined to enjoy or go along with that feature/idea.

I’ve lived in California all of my life. I’ve been exposed to various cultures and religions. I’ve had friends of just about every ethnic background and religious choice imaginable. Thusly I believe this has opened me to relationships with more types of people – especially those who come from other countries. I’m enchanted with accents, with the protocol of other cultures. But am I interested in dating or getting into a relationship with every person the world has to offer? Good grief no.

Am I biased? Sure. I understand and accept that everyone has preferences. As the lovely Jules mentioned if we didn’t have bias we would sleep with anyone.

I don’t recall my very early childhood but I recall sitting in my third grade Baptist classroom quite clearly. I looked around me and saw a sea of peach (thank you MsCameron!). I also saw nothing but boys and girls holding hands. Girls didn’t hold hands with each other. Boys didn’t hold hands with each other. At that age I didn’t really feel comfortably with the vanilla dynamics I saw around me. But that was because when I went home Alien FemDom Barbie and her Amazon like hoards would torment and torture Earth Ken and friends. However when I went home female and male partnerships still occurred. And I was playing with dolls before Barbie met multi-culture in the form of Teresa. I was still looking at the same sort of familiar hues and relationship structure.

When I went to high school I saw people from everywhere. I saw girls holding hands with other girls. And if they were bold enough I’d even see them kissing! I saw guys walking around with their arms slung around each other in a way that indicated there was more to them than friendship. But if I had any doubt the quick touch of lips before parting to go to separate classrooms sealed the deal.

Now I enjoy the company of many. One of my best friends is of blended cultures and bloodlines. Her father is predominantly German and her mother is one hundred percent Mexican.


_____________________________

Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
--R. D. Laing

"Oh, but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

(in reply to draven316)
Profile   Post #: 40
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