RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism

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fullofgrace -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:09:21 PM)
extreme social and economic right politics are right-wing fascism. extreme social and economic left politics are left-wing socialism. extreme social left and economic right is left-wing fascism. extreme social right and economic left is right-wing socialism. in the very center you have the moderates - people whose opinions can fall in any direction depending on their personal beliefs/choices and those do not line up with any particular political view. on the outside, in the general direction of the right but still very close to moderate is the republican party. on the outside of moderate, in the general direction of the left but still very close to moderate is the democratic party. neither party is supposed to deviate particularly far from the moderate because the average american voter would not support very extremist views. eta: this is also represented in a more linear fashion as: fascism--------republican-moderate-democrat-------communism with fascism being extreme right politics and communism being extreme left, without the qualifier of social and economic politics being separate. this is how it was taught in my government class; the above is, i think, a relatively newer model of representing politics. eta again: my earlier post was based on the second understanding, because before doing a google search i didn't realize the first was so widely known now. however, if we are going with traditional republican party lines, which is both economic and social conservativism, then yes, taking that as "right wing politics" and pushing it to an extreme would be considered fascism.

KenDckey -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:20:32 PM)
ok now I am really confused. you use words like extreme. I feel to the extreme that I should be allowd to walk around naked. Does that make me a facist or a communist? I don't do it because it is against the law but I believe I should be allowed to. My nakedness doesn't hurt anyone. I consider myself a conservative. I don't want some left wing liberal telling me what to do. If I choose to do something that does not harm someone else, then what is the harm? Just cause I am fat and ugly I should go to jail? I consider myself a libertarian. If it ain't in the constitution then it aint right. I consider myself a liberal. I like looking at naked women on tv. If I don't like her looks then I can always change the channel. oh yeah and if the republican party is facist, then membership is facist just like the National Socialist Party (nazi) in Germany where membership made you a facist. Right?

fullofgrace -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:26:24 PM)
nowhere in there did i claim the republican party is fascist. the us republican party in general is not fascist. it's simply leaning a bit more to the right than usual, due to recent events. does that mean that we need to be careful as a nation to not let it swing so far to the right extreme that it is fascist? yes. does that make it fascist? no way in hell. and as for extreme, perhaps you should try really, really hard to recall, you know, all the political debates that have been going on lately. EXTREME in political terms mean that you take one or the other side's views and you pursue them past the normal just-swinging-away-from-moderate. for example, the american socialist party believes in a more socialist, less capitalist way of handling money. this is an extreme of the democratic beliefs regarding social welfare programs, etc. your extreme desire to walk around naked has little to do with extremism in a political sense (unless your favorite nudist camp also happens to be affiliated with the american socialist party, or something). eta: where in there did i say that all average republicans should go to jail? as far as i see it, you swing pretty liberal in some ways and republican in others. shrugs as i said, being a republican does not make one fascist. please stop putting words in my mouth and actually bother reading what i'm typing.

KenDckey -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:33:35 PM)
"Any of this sound familiar? People may also want to do some research into the rise of Hitler and the Nazi Party to power in 1930's Germany, and compare that to the tactics of the Republican Party. The similarities are striking." Sorry If it seemed that I was putting words in your mouth. So let me tell you where I was comming from. You said above (a cut and paste from the original post) "compare that to the tactics of the Republican Party" To me if that is the tactics of the republican party then the party is at fault. but the Party is a piece of paper in reallity, but the party is also made up of members. So if the tactics (something done by people) are facist then the people must be doing it. Since you didn't single out any sect, any individual, you must have been refering to all Republicans (Substitiute the words Democrat and you get the same result) because of their association with the "Party"

fullofgrace -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:34:16 PM)
that post is not mine. that post is lotussong's. i cannot speak for her personal beliefs; i'm sure she'd probably be fairly pissed at me if i tried. if it helps, she uses proper capitalization and i type in all lowercase :) that might aid you in distinguishing. or you could just look to the left to see the author of the post.

Level -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:37:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fullofgrace that post is not mine. that post is lotussong's. i cannot speak for her personal beliefs; i'm sure she'd probably be fairly pissed at me if i tried. if it helps, she uses proper capitalization and i type in all lowercase :) that might aid you in distinguishing. or you could just look to the left to see the author of the post. LOL grace [sm=applause.gif]

fullofgrace -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:38:14 PM)
i aim to amuse ;) curtsies

KenDckey -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:43:09 PM)
Sorry my bad I have my 2 yr old and 2 mo old great grandkids yelling in my ear and it is distracting. the 2 yr old wants everything and the 2 mo old just wants he isn't sure what. and you are right It was Lotus. I got lost cause you sounded like her. so let me rephrase For Lotus who apparently isn't wanting to get into the fray, jsut start it. Membership in a political party is what I have intrepreted as making a person a facist. And regardless of what party you are a member of, in my opinion that is such a wrong way to be. It cubbies people into groups. It is like what ethnic group is my great grand daughter. My ex was born in africa. so my children are african american. I am native american and a bunch of european countries. My daughter in Law is Hispanic/Mexican. My grand daughter was born in Italy. So what the heck is she? No where where I have to list ethnicity can I find American. That is because people like Lotus puts all of us into their well defined cubbies like Republican or Democrat or whatever

KenDckey -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:46:10 PM)
Oh and Grace I am amused. I enjoy political debate. I was in a Toastmasters club where I was the only Republican. We had such good political debates.

KenDckey -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:47:30 PM)
BTW an off topic question Does anyone know how I got those little icons below my name?

fullofgrace -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:48:17 PM)
the difference, to me, between choosing a political party (such as fascist) and being born a particular ethnicity (such as biracial or multiracial or caucasian or whatever) is that one is choice and the other is genetics :) lotus isn't putting anyone into her well-defined cubby. she doesn't need to. the republicans who choose to register as that on their voter registration card do a very good job of it for her :) (as an aside, this is why i register as independent rather than socialist - because i don't want the fact that most of my views line up with socialism to lead me into being lumped in with the socialist party on the occasions that they don't.)

fullofgrace -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:49:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey BTW an off topic question Does anyone know how I got those little icons below my name? they appear based on post count, and vary in appearance and number depending on how high your post count is :)

KenDckey -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 9:57:37 PM)
That is one train of thought. but it l eads back to a person who is a republican is a facist because s/he registers republican. Has nothing to do with beliefs. Just because I register republican I do it because my leanings are in that direction. I don't agree with everything those in power do. I don't vote that way. I vote based upon my personal beliefs. That is like saying Joe Kennedy (a supporter of Joe McCarthy) was a facist because he supported McCarthyism. Kennedy as we all know was a democrat. Again it is guilt by association. And thnks for the info. I was wondering how that happned

fullofgrace -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 10:00:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey That is one train of thought. but it l eads back to a person who is a republican is a facist because s/he registers republican. like i said, i can't speak for lotussong, but i don't think her post was meant to be taken as "all republicans are fascists." i'm assuming she meant something more along the lines of "the republican party is beginning to show signs of the things that allowed the fascist regime to take over in other countries and perhaps as a whole it would be good for our nation to reflect on this and keep things in check." a person is a fascist if they register for a party that is fascist, or support fascist views in other ways. whenever the republican party actually becomes a truly out-and-out fascist government, then perhaps we can revisit the issue of whether or not a registered republican is by definition a fascist :)

KenDckey -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 10:04:10 PM)
Well it is 10 pm. if I don't get these kids to bed I am gonna kill em. LOL I am tired of their screams. I have enjoyed the debate. Thanks Grace Nite

fullofgrace -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 10:10:43 PM)
good luck getting the unmentionables to bed :) hugs

Lashra -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 10:49:21 PM)
I think this list hits it right on the head. We have a dictator in the white house and his religious extremists backing him will and are ruining the country. He has a lot of power and influence behind him. He has his tentacles woven all through the various Government departments. If we do not watch it there will be NO line between church and state, they will open up camps for people who do not fit in with their ideas (do not say it cannot happen that is what people said about Hitler's concentration camps). Most of us here would fit into that category as "sexual deviants". I saw a quote the other day from a Congressman whose name escapes me now, that said, “This country was founded on God and belief. The founding Father’s never meant there to be a separation of Church and State.” Women's rights are being taken away while the Evangelists are telling us "Its ok you need to be submissive to your husbands anyway, its what GOD wants." Well screw that I do not believe in your God, I have one of my own thank you and she tells me to be my own person. Women can be Dominant or submissive and we do not need or want to be told by some two dollar Preacher what God wants us to do.. They want to take away abortion? Are these dim wits who want abortion outlawed going to take care of all these kids that the Mothers do not want? Because I can tell you, most of the Fathers of these kids do not want them either. Particularly if Dad is a rapist or the woman’s, own Father/blood relative. How about making the men who impregnate these women have vasetectomies? At least they can suffer some too and I am sure you would see a big jump in condom sales. Oh that brings us to the point about how sinful birth control is. God wants women to produce as many babies as they possibly can, so say the evangelists. What they really mean by that is “Ladies whenever the old man wants you to spread your legs do it and don’t pressure him about condoms because he won’t get all the sensation he desires, nor should you bother him about expensive birth control. Just lay there do what he says and if you get pregnant it’s your OWN fault.” Freedom of speech? You just go to a Bush function and wear a shirt that says "Bush sucks" see how long it is before security whisks your ass out of there. Or go to a book signing and try to debate to the author who happens to be very involved in politics and see how long before he has your ass thrown out by security. All in all it’s a sad state of affairs and its getting progressively worse as time goes on. I envision the US becoming a total dictatorship with the secret police and the camps. Sort of like what you saw happening in the movie “V for Vendetta.” Or perhaps there might even be another civil war here, who knows? People keep saying that couldn’t happen…watch it. Unless people wake up and start fighting for their rights and make our politicians accountable for their actions and stop their twisting of the Constitution to fit their needs. ~Lashra

Lilmissbossy -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/22/2006 11:09:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey so what I need is a better explanation. does this mean that (in the order you presented them: 1. We should open our borders to anyone that wants to come here and blow us up (refering to 9/11 and the ILLEGALS that cross over daily) 2. I don't get it. Are republicans saying we have to join a paticular religion some place? 3. So being proud of your nation and your way of life is a bad thing I guess? 4. I was a union steward. I didn't know the government made unions illegal. I thought the republicans created OSHA in consort with Labor and Managment in 1970. 5. I didn't know that the Republican Party had policing powers. When did that happen? 6. We had a fraudulent election? I thought that was settled by the Supreme Court which I didn't think took its orders from the Republican Party. Or am I mistaken because they ruled against the Administration on the keeping of terrorists 7. You mean that the Dems don't appoint their cronies and supporters to positions? I thought Bill appointed Hillary to disolve our medical system and take our children away from us because we are incapapble of caring for them and it takes a village (which I guess was to be run by a Clinton appointee). 8. You mean that the EPA and OSHA were created for Business by the republicans in 1970? 9. I am sorry. I thought that censorship during WWII was a part of the requirements to save the lives of our solders not of that fine Repbulican Roosevelt - oh wait he was a Dem 10. Here we go again. Both civil rights acts were done with Republican controlled congresses. I thought they protected womens rights amongst other laws. and I forgot, it is the aim of the clintons to take our children so they can raise them in the village so I guess that means that the Dems want us to desolve families? 11. Does this mean that the Al Quidea didn't hijack the airplanes that ran into our buildings that is was Republicans? 12. Gee when I was in college if my opinion didn't meet the profs then I failed my classes cause we know that the profs opinion is the only one that is right. And of course and emphasis on helping kids pass throught the educational system with a real education is the wrong course of action for us to take. 13. Hmmmmmm Guess we should disband the military and give all the money to the EPA and OSHA so they can whomp on Republican businesses (Wonder how Dems support themselves since we know that all their money went to the military) 14. Again, Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, OSHA, EPA were all done during the Repbulican controlled congreses. I guess they are anti people and should be dropped in favor of letting the Dems run us. Sorry but were you commenting on the points raised in the original posters link? I just went through your points and at least the first 5 seem totally unrelated to what the OP's points raised actually were. If I'm wrong someone point it out to me but from the original link, there doesn't seem any connection whatsoever between your points and the points raised in the web page.

Alumbrado -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/23/2006 12:54:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fullofgrace lincoln only "freed" the slaves it was politically expedient for him to free - the ones in the south. meaning that he didn't support freedom for all slaves, and if i recall correctly, he himself owned slaves. Probably thinking of U.S. Grant

HarryVanWinkle -> RE: 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (7/23/2006 1:18:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Hitler has a saying: One Book, One Reich, One Furor The saying was, "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer." Translation: "One people, one nation, one leader." Actually, "Reich" is a bit hard to translate directly. It falls somewhere between "Nation" and "Empire."

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