RE: The world without the US (Full Version)

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Edwird -> RE: The world without the US (10/24/2016 9:31:38 PM)


Exactly.

The Dutch *might* have been OK in the long run, but they were certainly right bastards back in the day.







BamaD -> RE: The world without the US (10/24/2016 9:34:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

Could the United States have ever come about without Britain.

There's that, too.

We couldn't have won without them, but they couldn't have won without us.
And if by some chance they didn't Switzerland would have been the super power in Europe when it was over.




Edwird -> RE: The world without the US (10/24/2016 9:40:05 PM)


Switzerland, with a population of 4 million at the time (7 million now), would by your account have held sway over the Germans, the French, and the British, with each population of 30-60 million at the time.

Put that on a game plan map for us, if you will.





BamaD -> RE: The world without the US (10/24/2016 9:51:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

Switzerland, with a population of 4 million at the time, would by your account have held sway over the Germans, the French, and the British, with each population of 30-60 million at the time.

Put that on a game map plan for us, if you will.

You forget that even with our help the Russians lost an entire generation of men, if the Allies had won without us Germany would have been crippled, France would have been destroyed. And you forget that without us the Japanese would have been unstoppable so the Russians would have to divert huge number of troops to defend the back door. Ok Europe would have been dominated by the Swiss and the Swedes.




tamaka -> RE: The world without the US (10/24/2016 9:52:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


tamaka


And just exactly how would you have that democracy without the US? It didn't seem like England was doing so well without us.

Could youi please tell me just what amerika did durring ww2 that would make you believe as you do. Please be specific.


www.quora.com/Could-World-War-II-have-been-won-without-the-United-States



Some interesting specifics:

US SuppliesTo:

Britain: 31.4 billion
Soviet Union: 11.3 billion
France: 3.2 billion
China: 1.6 billion

Troops sent to England: 1.5 million







Greta75 -> RE: The world without the US (10/24/2016 10:11:09 PM)

FR
I don't like US for all that red tape and overly political correct bureaucratic nonsense that pretty much makes everything a deadlock and prevents anything from getting done in their country! Even basic health care plans cannot be implemented properly without being a huge mess. To me, anyway, it does not affect my country but I feel sorry for their own country, and things could be done much better, but it probably never will get there. When there are still poverty areas that rivals Africa in the greatest country in the world. Something is wrong.

But one thing for sure.

US does bring the world closer together. Something no other countries could have done. If there is something different nationalities have in common, it's either love US products or hate US products. Whatever they have produced out of there. Whether their version of Pizza, huge improvement from the Italians. Their fast food. Their movies! Their music! Their entertainment!





Edwird -> RE: The world without the US (10/24/2016 10:32:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

Switzerland, with a population of 4 million at the time, would by your account have held sway over the Germans, the French, and the British, with each population of 30-60 million at the time.

Put that on a game map plan for us, if you will.

... if the Allies had won without us Germany would have been crippled,


The Germans were well and truly crippled long before WW II, thanks to the Versailles treaty being attended by Clemenceau, who was actually around when the Prussians kicked the French arse in 1871. Can you believe that? That cane walker was out for blood and compensating for his inherent impotence in life, and somehow got his way. It is definitely on the Brits and the USA that they allowed the senile bitter bastard to have his way about it. Welcome WW II.

quote:

France would have been destroyed.


The French have always found a way to destroy themselves, no outside intervention needed. Read some inter-war French history and get a clue.


quote:

And you forget that without us the Japanese would have been unstoppable so the Russians would have to divert huge number of troops to defend the back door.


What? Because the Japanese beat up on a weakling corrupt and utterly impotent China (at the time) you consider the Japanese of the time as being 'unstoppable'?

Here, let me just counter your idiocy with my own:

"If the US had not killed 30 million people in South Asia, then Thailand would have ruled over all of China."

You say that the Swiss or the Swedes 'ruling' over Europe as if it would be a bad thing, just as, as counterpart, you apparently prefer China rather than Thailand hold the roost in the Orient.






Edwird -> RE: The world without the US (10/24/2016 10:42:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
Even basic health care plans cannot be implemented properly without being a huge mess.


That is due to the private insurance companies and nothing else.




Greta75 -> RE: The world without the US (10/24/2016 10:50:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
That is due to the private insurance companies and nothing else.

The government has full control whether to privatize or personally manage it.
Whatever path they chose. They didn't think this through, how it could be done properly for America.





BamaD -> RE: The world without the US (10/24/2016 10:53:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

Switzerland, with a population of 4 million at the time, would by your account have held sway over the Germans, the French, and the British, with each population of 30-60 million at the time.

Put that on a game map plan for us, if you will.

... if the Allies had won without us Germany would have been crippled,


The Germans were well and truly crippled long before WW II, thanks to the Versailles treaty being attended by Clemenceau, who was actually around when the Prussians kicked the French arse in 1871. Can you believe that? That cane walker was out for blood and compensating for his inherent impotence in life, and somehow got his way. It is definitely on the Brits and the USA that they allowed the senile bitter bastard to have his way about it. Welcome WW II.

quote:

France would have been destroyed.


The French have always found a way to destroy themselves, no outside intervention needed. Read some inter-war French history and get a clue.


quote:

And you forget that without us the Japanese would have been unstoppable so the Russians would have to divert huge number of troops to defend the back door.


What? Because the Japanese beat up on a weakling corrupt and utterly impotent China (at the time) you consider the Japanese of the time as being 'unstoppable'?

Here, let me just counter your idiocy with my own:

"If the US had not killed 30 million people in South Asia, then Thailand would have ruled over all of China."

You say that the Swiss or the Swedes 'ruling' over Europe as if it would be a bad thing, just as, as counterpart, you apparently prefer China rather than Thailand hold the roost in the Orient.




So the Germans were unable to proceed with with WWII wow, then Russia and western Europe must have been real wimps.

France, as a great power died at Verdun.

With out the US in the war the Chinese would have been the biggest threat to the Japanese, before we got into the war they had whipped the Brits pretty good, taken all of their holdings in the east and sent their navy packing,
The Australian navy would have stood up to them for about 10 minutes, nothing against the Aussies but they simply didn't have the ships.
That leaves the Chinese.

When did I say that the Swiss and Swedes ruling the roost would be a bad thing. I doubt they would have screwed up any worse than the Brits French and Germans have.

You want to go back to WWI do you think the allies would have gotten the deal they did without the threat of literally 1,000,000s of US troops on the way?

And the Europeans didn't have the backbone to keep Hitler from rearming, do you really think that our none existence would have lead to them growing one.




thompsonx -> RE: The world without the US (10/25/2016 4:22:41 AM)

ORIGINAL: tamaka
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


tamaka


And just exactly how would you have that democracy without the US? It didn't seem like England was doing so well without us.

Could youi please tell me just what amerika did durring ww2 that would make you believe as you do. Please be specific.
[/quote]

www.quora.com/Could-World-War-II-have-been-won-without-the-United-States

Your link says emphatically that amerikan assistance in ww2 was insignificant and that the soviets could have beat the germans and the japanese all by themselves. That the only purpose of amerikan involvement was to prevent the soviets from controling all of europe.
It ignores and fails to address the question of why the soviets would be interested in occupying western europe.




thompsonx -> RE: The world without the US (10/25/2016 4:33:45 AM)


ORIGINAL: BamaD

You forget that even with our help the Russians lost an entire generation of men,

The sovietrs lost about 25 million. You speak as if that would have crippled them. As the post war history show that is clearly not true.


if the Allies had won without us Germany would have been crippled,

With us it was crippled so what is your point?

France would have been destroyed.

While france lost about twice as many men as amerika it's post war history shows you clearly have your head up your ass.


And you forget that without us the Japanese would have been unstoppable so the Russians would have to divert huge number of troops to defend the back door.


An opinion without any substance or merit as tamakas cite clearly shows.


Ok Europe would have been dominated by the Swiss and the Swedes.

Jesus you are phoquing stupid




thompsonx -> RE: The world without the US (10/25/2016 4:38:18 AM)


ORIGINAL: tamaka


ORIGINAL: tamaka.

Some interesting specifics:

US SuppliesTo:

Britain: 31.4 billion
Soviet Union: 11.3 billion
France: 3.2 billion
China: 1.6 billion

Troops sent to England: 1.5 million


Your previous cite points out that the overwhelming majority of that lend lease to russia came in late 1944/45.
An interesting logistical fact is that the city of st. petersberg produced an equal amount of war material to the amerikan lend lease while under siege .




PeonForHer -> RE: The world without the US (10/25/2016 4:45:29 AM)

FR

I quite like jeeps, too. They had jeeps in 'MASH'. Americans made both jeeps *and* MASH. Both were good.

Interestingly, 'jeep' is an abbreviation of GPV, the initials for 'general purpose vehicle'.




thompsonx -> RE: The world without the US (10/25/2016 4:48:34 AM)


ORIGINAL: BamaD

France, as a great power died at Verdun.

You have used that phrase so often you actually believe it. Which is one more reason we repeat the statement:
Jesus you are phoquing stupid


With out the US in the war the Chinese would have been the biggest threat to the Japanese, before we got into the war they had whipped the Brits pretty good, taken all of their holdings in the east and sent their navy packing,
The Australian navy would have stood up to them for about 10 minutes, nothing against the Aussies but they simply didn't have the ships.
That leaves the Chinese.

The land mass of china mitigates against the japs having any lasting effect.
Tamaka's cite deals with this in detail.



You want to go back to WWI do you think the allies would have gotten the deal they did without the threat of literally 1,000,000s of US troops on the way?


Bullshit.


And the Europeans didn't have the backbone to keep Hitler from rearming, do you really think that our none existence would have lead to them growing one.

You keep saying that european coward shit but a cusory read of any history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade shows that:
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.





WickedsDesire -> RE: The world without the US (10/25/2016 5:29:28 AM)

WW1 no one really knows the death figure – probably about 100 million – Lenin and Stalin - probably 20 million of their own people within that total.

Germany were simply better equipped for both wars _ I think the Russians were still Calvary charging the Sherman/tiger tanks on horse back.

Russia death total was so high because of the aforementioned two loons and the fact they were armed with sticks- Hitler under estimated Britain which was a mistook – and I don’t doubt for a second the UK and the USA, in cahoots, sunk the Lusitania.

Swizzleland still has a lot to answer for.




Edwird -> RE: The world without the US (10/25/2016 5:57:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You forget that even with our help the Russians lost an entire generation of men,


You forget that Stalin killed 20 million of his own countrymen before WW II ever started.




bounty44 -> RE: The world without the US (10/25/2016 6:05:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
tamaka

And just exactly how would you have that democracy without the US? It didn't seem like England was doing so well without us.

Could youi please tell me just what amerika did durring ww2 that would make you believe as you do. Please be specific.


www.quora.com/Could-World-War-II-have-been-won-without-the-United-States

Some interesting specifics:
US SuppliesTo:

Britain: 31.4 billion
Soviet Union: 11.3 billion
France: 3.2 billion
China: 1.6 billion
Troops sent to England: 1.5 million


tamaka---seemingly the troll's premise more or less being that the united states involvement or entry into the war didn't significantly alter its outcome. I cant say this for sure because for the most part I ignore his posts, but im vaguely remembering that he's even articulated that view in prior posts. I could be mistaken in that, but it would indeed be consistent with his warped view of history---or as he's fond of saying, that the rest of us merely got their history from a 5th grade text book.




Edwird -> RE: The world without the US (10/25/2016 6:14:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
Swizzleland still has a lot to answer for.


Oh, by all means, enlighten us on that one.




bounty44 -> RE: The world without the US (10/25/2016 6:25:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

An interesting read whether or not you agree with the religious aspect.

https://realtruth.org/articles/120416-001.html


tamaka I think some claims to be the fulfillment of prophecy can be quite an interpretive reach to grasp.

that aside, im surprised the author of this piece didn't mention dinesh D'Souza's recent book "America: imagine a world without her."

I haven't it read it yet but I just recently picked it up at a book sale.

if you like the sort of thing the author's talking about, you might enjoy "the light and the glory" by peter marshall.

im reading a book right now called "the conservatarian manifesto" and the author, a brit, is discussing the tension between isolationism and interventionism.


Ok thank you for the suggestions. I'll check them out.


my pleasure---I read the light and the glory years ago and really enjoyed it.

ive only got 30 pages left in the book im presently in, when im finished, i'll start reading D'Souza's book and post some things here from it.

im pretty sure he also had a movie made from the book.


am going to start D'Souza's book today and if its suitable, will post things from it as I go along. in the meantime, here's the blurb from the back dustcover that will serve to do two things, one is, to point out a fundamental difference between the liberals and the conservatives in terms of what they value and how they operate, and the other i suspect, will be to hack the comrades off.

"progressives are the architects of American decline, and progressivism is the ideology of American suicide. here's a way to think about what Obama, Hillary and the progressives are doing. imagine if they were in charge of a basketball team with a 50 yr track record of success. we hired them as coaches to keep the team winning. yet they designed plays to ensure the team would lose. they didn't do so because they hated the team, but because they thought it was wrong for the team to win so much. the long previous record of victories, they argued was based on exploitation, and it would be better for everyone if our team wasn't so dominant. if we had such a coaching staff, there is little doubt we would get rid of them. we would ask ourselves why we hired them in the first place."




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