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RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/15/2016 9:43:01 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Well an argument can be easily made that Jesus didn't teach his morality to the government... he taught it to the people. In fact Jesus explicitly separated church and state himself (give to Caesar what is Caesar's, give to God what is God's. It's really not the role of the government to help the poor and needy... it is the people's place. Theoretically i guess the solution would be to make government smaller, decrease taxes and let the people privately manage things pertaining to such issues.

Are you saying that a Christian holding office is a violation of separation of church and state. Keep in mind that the wall of separation of church and state does not appear in the Constitution, it says that the state cannot make anyone adopt any religion nor can it restrict their rights because they follow any religion.
This means that dismissing someone because they are Christian is more a violation than following your beliefs.


No i'm not going that far i am just saying that it is not the role of government to enforce Christian ideals. However i did read a small book titled 'Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris and found it very eye- opening (even paradigm shifting for me). If, for example, a Christian president believes that before Jesus comes back to rapture his church there needs to be another WW involving the Middle East he may very well see himself as the facilitator of God's plan. We tend to cause things we believe will happen, is my point.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 301
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/15/2016 9:52:44 PM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

ignoring for a moment the many refutable aspects of your post, I noticed you did not in the least way support your contention that pence, as a "Christian dominionist" wants to force his religion on everyone.

let me give you back your own question. exactly what part of the "2000 yr old worldview" that pence holds is not relevant such that it apparently disqualifies him from being a leader. or put another way, why cant a Christian be a political leader?


It doesn't. It's mostly about separation of Church and State. I don't want to live in a theocracy. Joe Biden is a Christian and I wouldn't mind him as a political leader as he doesn't put church in front of state, though I'd like him even more if he wised up and dumped Christianity.

I wouldn't mind a Christian as much if it weren't just about abortion and banning LGBT rights. Where is love thy neighbor in the current Republican platform? Where is helping the poor? Where is helping the sick? Turning the other cheek?

If Jesus existed and ran for President, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. None of the current Republicans seem even remotely like him...

Killing babies is your idea of love thy neighbor?
Every person follows there own set of beliefs, agnostics pretend that because they say there is nothing greater than man their set is better. This is why they think that it is ok to burn and steal because they know everyone does it one way or another. It is ok to discriminate against Christians because they stand for a constant set of values.


I'm not a Christian, I don't claim to love my neighbor. I wouldn't mind someone like Jesus as my neighbor. I do believe in Global Warming, the less people, the better for all of us. I would support a tax break on anyone who is childless and ending all these tax cuts for families. Quite a few Republicans are also anti-birth control. How is that good for the world, and how can it not mean and end result in more abortions? This idea some Christians have that sex drive is some sort of vice one can control through prayer is maddening.

I'm not for discriminating against Christians, but not giving LGBT people the same rights anyone else has just because your religion doesn't like it is not "religious freedom". If not selling wedding cakes to LGBT people is OK on religious grounds, will soon selling birthday cakes to LGBT people also be acceptable? Hamburgers at the lunch counter?

< Message edited by LadyDemura -- 11/15/2016 9:54:12 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 302
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/15/2016 10:03:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Well an argument can be easily made that Jesus didn't teach his morality to the government... he taught it to the people. In fact Jesus explicitly separated church and state himself (give to Caesar what is Caesar's, give to God what is God's. It's really not the role of the government to help the poor and needy... it is the people's place. Theoretically i guess the solution would be to make government smaller, decrease taxes and let the people privately manage things pertaining to such issues.

Are you saying that a Christian holding office is a violation of separation of church and state. Keep in mind that the wall of separation of church and state does not appear in the Constitution, it says that the state cannot make anyone adopt any religion nor can it restrict their rights because they follow any religion.
This means that dismissing someone because they are Christian is more a violation than following your beliefs.


No i'm not going that far i am just saying that it is not the role of government to enforce Christian ideals. However i did read a small book titled 'Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris and found it very eye- opening (even paradigm shifting for me). If, for example, a Christian president believes that before Jesus comes back to rapture his church there needs to be another WW involving the Middle East he may very well see himself as the facilitator of God's plan. We tend to cause things we believe will happen, is my point.


But don't paint all Christians with that brush. And while I know there are vast numbers of Muslims who don't believe this the President of Iran does belong to a sect that thinks that bringing on a WW will bring on their version of Armageddon.

Lady Demura does say that a Christian President is a violation of the separation of church and state. While she does this she proved that she doesn't understand the subject.



_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 303
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/15/2016 10:08:00 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Well an argument can be easily made that Jesus didn't teach his morality to the government... he taught it to the people. In fact Jesus explicitly separated church and state himself (give to Caesar what is Caesar's, give to God what is God's. It's really not the role of the government to help the poor and needy... it is the people's place. Theoretically i guess the solution would be to make government smaller, decrease taxes and let the people privately manage things pertaining to such issues.

Are you saying that a Christian holding office is a violation of separation of church and state. Keep in mind that the wall of separation of church and state does not appear in the Constitution, it says that the state cannot make anyone adopt any religion nor can it restrict their rights because they follow any religion.
This means that dismissing someone because they are Christian is more a violation than following your beliefs.


No i'm not going that far i am just saying that it is not the role of government to enforce Christian ideals. However i did read a small book titled 'Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris and found it very eye- opening (even paradigm shifting for me). If, for example, a Christian president believes that before Jesus comes back to rapture his church there needs to be another WW involving the Middle East he may very well see himself as the facilitator of God's plan. We tend to cause things we believe will happen, is my point.


But don't paint all Christians with that brush. And while I know there are vast numbers of Muslims who don't believe this the President of Iran does belong to a sect that thinks that bringing on a WW will bring on their version of Armageddon.

Lady Demura does say that a Christian President is a violation of the separation of church and state. While she does this she proved that she doesn't understand the subject.



No she didnt
In fact she said
quote:

Joe Biden is a Christian and I wouldn't mind him as a political leader as he doesn't put church in front of state.

You are such a huge lying toe rag

_____________________________

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\(•_•)
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(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 304
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/15/2016 10:49:22 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
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Kennedy didn't put church in front of state, if that means anything. And some were worried about that, especially the people who actually wanted to put church in front of state, but not Catholic.

Once Reagan came along ...

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 305
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/16/2016 3:47:21 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


Kennedy didn't put church in front of state, if that means anything. And some were worried about that, especially the people who actually wanted to put church in front of state, but not Catholic.

Once Reagan came along ...

No president has.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 306
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/16/2016 3:58:19 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

ignoring for a moment the many refutable aspects of your post, I noticed you did not in the least way support your contention that pence, as a "Christian dominionist" wants to force his religion on everyone.

let me give you back your own question. exactly what part of the "2000 yr old worldview" that pence holds is not relevant such that it apparently disqualifies him from being a leader. or put another way, why cant a Christian be a political leader?


It doesn't. It's mostly about separation of Church and State. I don't want to live in a theocracy. Joe Biden is a Christian and I wouldn't mind him as a political leader as he doesn't put church in front of state, though I'd like him even more if he wised up and dumped Christianity.

I wouldn't mind a Christian as much if it weren't just about abortion and banning LGBT rights. Where is love thy neighbor in the current Republican platform? Where is helping the poor? Where is helping the sick? Turning the other cheek?

If Jesus existed and ran for President, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. None of the current Republicans seem even remotely like him...


well then we are back to a variant of the same question---where do you get any evidence that pence, or any other Christian in the political world for that matter, wants the usa to be a theocracy?

please---the whole "separation of church and state" thing is a canard. the purpose of the 1st amendment is to prevent the state from establishing an official religion, not to prevent individuals in the public square to be informed by their faith.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 307
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/16/2016 4:03:28 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Well an argument can be easily made that Jesus didn't teach his morality to the government... he taught it to the people. In fact Jesus explicitly separated church and state himself (give to Caesar what is Caesar's, give to God what is God's. It's really not the role of the government to help the poor and needy... it is the people's place. Theoretically i guess the solution would be to make government smaller, decrease taxes and let the people privately manage things pertaining to such issues.



and that right there is another essential difference between todays' left and right. the former think its the governments job to take care of the worlds ills, while the latter place more emphasis on the individual.

if only the comrades would look around with open eyes to see the good the church actually does in the country and in the world, maybe they wouldn't be so constantly and irrationally critical of it.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 308
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/16/2016 4:11:11 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura
I'm not for discriminating against Christians, but not giving LGBT people the same rights anyone else has just because your religion doesn't like it is not "religious freedom". If not selling wedding cakes to LGBT people is OK on religious grounds, will soon selling birthday cakes to LGBT people also be acceptable? Hamburgers at the lunch counter?


my answer to that is, as a libertarian type, its up to the people to work that out themselves through the free market and on the local level. not only is that the most effective way, but otherwise you end up using the same government force you are decrying when others use it to an end you don't approve of.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 309
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/17/2016 7:33:46 PM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura
I'm not for discriminating against Christians, but not giving LGBT people the same rights anyone else has just because your religion doesn't like it is not "religious freedom". If not selling wedding cakes to LGBT people is OK on religious grounds, will soon selling birthday cakes to LGBT people also be acceptable? Hamburgers at the lunch counter?


my answer to that is, as a libertarian type, its up to the people to work that out themselves through the free market and on the local level. not only is that the most effective way, but otherwise you end up using the same government force you are decrying when others use it to an end you don't approve of.


I wish I could get behind the Libertarian Party. In theory, they are closer to many of my viewpoints than the Democrats. If they would actually run someone who doesn't come off as an idiot, I actually could. Those Aleppo moments may have changed the entire course of the election. One has to wonder what the outcome would have been had Bill Weld been at the top of the ticket instead of Johnson...

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 310
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/17/2016 7:57:25 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura
I'm not for discriminating against Christians, but not giving LGBT people the same rights anyone else has just because your religion doesn't like it is not "religious freedom". If not selling wedding cakes to LGBT people is OK on religious grounds, will soon selling birthday cakes to LGBT people also be acceptable? Hamburgers at the lunch counter?


my answer to that is, as a libertarian type, its up to the people to work that out themselves through the free market and on the local level. not only is that the most effective way, but otherwise you end up using the same government force you are decrying when others use it to an end you don't approve of.


I wish I could get behind the Libertarian Party. In theory, they are closer to many of my viewpoints than the Democrats. If they would actually run someone who doesn't come off as an idiot, I actually could. Those Aleppo moments may have changed the entire course of the election. One has to wonder what the outcome would have been had Bill Weld been at the top of the ticket instead of Johnson...

Johnson was a liberal in Libertarians clothing.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 311
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/17/2016 7:59:02 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Gary? He is a nutsucker in nutsucker clothing. Welfare patient, just like you.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 312
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/17/2016 8:28:31 PM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Gary? He is a nutsucker in nutsucker clothing. Welfare patient, just like you.


Are you referring to me? I don't need welfare...doing just fine...

I said he came off as an idiot. To elaborate though, Trump and Clinton were two of the most hated major party candidates running at the same time. If they ran anyone who didn't come off as an idiot they might very well have won...I don't know if Bill Weld would have been the best choice, just better than Johnson. Since celebrity seemed to be a factor, maybe they should have ran John Stossel...he claims to be a Libertarian, seems fairly likeable, and is somewhat famous.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 313
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/17/2016 11:44:21 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Kennedy didn't put church in front of state, if that means anything. And some were worried about that, especially the people who actually wanted to put church in front of state, but not Catholic.

Once Reagan came along ...

No president has.


I'm not sure about that, but in any case you are correct about Reagan not putting it first, at least not the spiritually religious way.

Mammon was the religion of Reagan's handlers, and so it was with him. But my comment was in reference to Jerry Falwell and the moral majority getting all kinds of air play and platform directly from his administration.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 314
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/17/2016 11:55:50 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

ignoring for a moment the many refutable aspects of your post, I noticed you did not in the least way support your contention that pence, as a "Christian dominionist" wants to force his religion on everyone.

let me give you back your own question. exactly what part of the "2000 yr old worldview" that pence holds is not relevant such that it apparently disqualifies him from being a leader. or put another way, why cant a Christian be a political leader?


It doesn't. It's mostly about separation of Church and State. I don't want to live in a theocracy. Joe Biden is a Christian and I wouldn't mind him as a political leader as he doesn't put church in front of state, though I'd like him even more if he wised up and dumped Christianity.

I wouldn't mind a Christian as much if it weren't just about abortion and banning LGBT rights. Where is love thy neighbor in the current Republican platform? Where is helping the poor? Where is helping the sick? Turning the other cheek?

If Jesus existed and ran for President, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. None of the current Republicans seem even remotely like him...


well then we are back to a variant of the same question---where do you get any evidence that pence, or any other Christian in the political world for that matter, wants the usa to be a theocracy?

please---the whole "separation of church and state" thing is a canard. the purpose of the 1st amendment is to prevent the state from establishing an official religion, not to prevent individuals in the public square to be informed by their faith.



Ted Cruz did in a video talking to the AFA back in 2015.

the video is here...American Family Association
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAeiZCAmBf8

it was in august, last year. Im sure you can find an appropriate rw info to find out more.



_____________________________

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<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 315
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/18/2016 12:06:29 AM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
... as a libertarian type, its up to the people to work that out themselves through the free market and on the local level.


The only way to keep it on a local level would be to outlaw all interstate commerce, or even beyond the metro area.

And the US is and has been as 'free market' as almost any of those South American shit holes doing the same thing, which is why so many of our metrics are in the same bottom tier as Mexico and Turkey.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 316
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/18/2016 2:12:19 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		FR
I don't know where to post this but since topic is about angry Hillary supporters. I got chew out by a local Singaporean friend about my support for Trump today lol.

Basically he said to me, "Do you know Trump is going to make alot of Singaporeans jobless? How can you support him?"

And I was like, "HUH? Trump is US President! He is not responsible for our jobs! WTF? That's our government's problem!"

Lol!!

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 317
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/18/2016 2:42:35 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Kennedy didn't put church in front of state, if that means anything. And some were worried about that, especially the people who actually wanted to put church in front of state, but not Catholic.

Once Reagan came along ...

No president has.


I'm not sure about that, but in any case you are correct about Reagan not putting it first, at least not the spiritually religious way.

Mammon was the religion of Reagan's handlers, and so it was with him. But my comment was in reference to Jerry Falwell and the moral majority getting all kinds of air play and platform directly from his administration.


And because they are religious the moral majority loses their freedom of speech?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 318
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/18/2016 2:54:04 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Gary? He is a nutsucker in nutsucker clothing. Welfare patient, just like you.


Are you referring to me? I don't need welfare...doing just fine...

I said he came off as an idiot. To elaborate though, Trump and Clinton were two of the most hated major party candidates running at the same time. If they ran anyone who didn't come off as an idiot they might very well have won...I don't know if Bill Weld would have been the best choice, just better than Johnson. Since celebrity seemed to be a factor, maybe they should have ran John Stossel...he claims to be a Libertarian, seems fairly likeable, and is somewhat famous.



Johnson was a liberal in Libertarians clothing.
Gary? He is a nutsucker in nutsucker clothing. Welfare patient, just like you.

The reply was to Bama, and it showed in the corner. I doubt your name is Gary.
He could be talking about LBJ or Gary Johnson, he isnt real adept at thought, hence my 'Gary?' And my comment. If he meant LBJ, I would have said.

LOL. Yeah, no, welfare patient.


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 319
RE: Hillary Supporters Burn American Flag, Riot, Threat... - 11/18/2016 7:59:22 AM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Kennedy didn't put church in front of state, if that means anything. And some were worried about that, especially the people who actually wanted to put church in front of state, but not Catholic.

Once Reagan came along ...

No president has.


I'm not sure about that, but in any case you are correct about Reagan not putting it first, at least not the spiritually religious way.

Mammon was the religion of Reagan's handlers, and so it was with him. But my comment was in reference to Jerry Falwell and the moral majority getting all kinds of air play and platform directly from his administration.

And because they are religious the moral majority loses their freedom of speech?


Oh right ...

Every administration other than Reagan's was anti-free speech because they didn't actively promote the jut-job moral majority on the tax payer's dime.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 320
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