RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (Full Version)

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Nnanji -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 10:31:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: notxofast


quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire


Turnip got 23% of the eligible electorate...that is all it takes for a madman to be at thy helm. Maths and apathy.


Stupidity. A lot of people felt that they had to make a point by choosing to withold their vote, their silence elected Trump.


Voting for a completely unqualified person offering nothing more than Hope and Change was stupid, in hindsight as well as foresight. Voting for someone outside that silly system of bank run government was not stupid.



tamaka -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 10:53:52 AM)

What people aren't understanding is that in the end, it is not the people voting for President, it is the states voting.



tamaka -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 11:05:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

But surely it's no different to other countries where there are distinctly different cultures conglomerated into pockets??

I see no advantage in having separate states with separate laws.
In fact, there are many disadvantages in having that arrangement.

Just as the world shouted down the idea of apartheid, you are advocating the same approach to the US in keeping things separate.
I don't see that as a good thing at all.
By all means keep your states, but they don't have to be autonomous.



The checks and balances of power are the keys to maintaining a free Representative Republic.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 11:16:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
The checks and balances of power are the keys to maintaining a free Representative Republic.

Is that why the US can never get anything sensible done??
Is that why the whole functioning of the government ground to a halt at least twice recently??
Is that why many things just got kicked down the road to be looked at years later instead of dealing with it??

Very inefficient governance.
It's not checks and balances, it's just a way to stop democracy in its tracks.
It's no wonder that America, as a whole, is much less respected around the world than it used to be.



Inghammar -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 11:32:40 AM)

Both candidates played to win using the Electoral College. If there were no Electoral College, the campaigns would have been different - for instance no candidate would have campaigned in the Midwest at all. Clinton got more popular votes but that's like saying that the Atlanta Falcons should have won the football game because they had more time of possession.

I am not sure why we have the system set up the way it is nor whom it protects - but right now that's the game the candidates play.



Nnanji -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 1:59:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
The checks and balances of power are the keys to maintaining a free Representative Republic.

Is that why the US can never get anything sensible done??
Is that why the whole functioning of the government ground to a halt at least twice recently??
Is that why many things just got kicked down the road to be looked at years later instead of dealing with it??

Very inefficient governance.
It's not checks and balances, it's just a way to stop democracy in its tracks.
It's no wonder that America, as a whole, is much less respected around the world than it used to be.


Well, most of the time what you call sensible I'd call horrific.



kdsub -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 2:04:58 PM)

I believe the Electoral College is essential to keep our country together. It was wise of the founders to establish a system that balances the urban and rural vote. As has been stated if we only went by the popular vote then the urban areas would most likely control every federal election. This would leave vast land areas of the country with little to no representation on issues that affect them. This I believe could lead to insurrection and the break up of the Union.

In each of the elections where the popular vote and the Electoral College totals did not elect the same President the margins were very small. This is as it should be and is testament to the wisdom of the designers of the Constitution. As in this election the vast majority of the land area of this country overwhelmingly voted for Trump and a relatively small area voted for Clinton. The balancing of power worked in a close election...even if it is not perfect it serves a good purpose.

Butch



ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 2:11:27 PM)

quote:

Very inefficient governance.

Exactly, and it was designed to be that way on purpose, see, in the original plan, the federal government was meant to be rather weak compared to the state governments.



Nnanji -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 2:20:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Very inefficient governance.

Exactly, and it was designed to be that way on purpose, see, in the original plan, the federal government was meant to be rather weak compared to the state governments.

Yep, and some of us still prefer that.



tamaka -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 3:00:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Very inefficient governance.

Exactly, and it was designed to be that way on purpose, see, in the original plan, the federal government was meant to be rather weak compared to the state governments.

Yep, and some of us still prefer that.


I think it's that "Free Country" thing people don't get.



Termyn8or -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 3:07:47 PM)

FR

Anyone got an idea how long it takes to amend the Constitution ?

The time to talk about this was at least two years ago and that is if it didn't get stuck i committee. This is one of those issues that might take some time. Many are done in two years but a couple took quite a bit longer. First it has to be drafted, then go through committee, then get two thirds of the congressional vote and there is no time limit on that. Then it has to go to the states and get two thirds of them to ratify. The limit on that was set at seven years.

About 100 per year are proposed but only 33 of them actually got into the Constitution.

Now we know that at this time there are more red than blue states. That will have to change first and it is not likely because enough states would lose power than gain, just like they did with the direct election of senators.

Wanna try it ? Start a movement and put some money into TV ads and whatever and get the People to pressure their representatives to do it. Once that is done get people in every state to put pressure on their state governments to ratify.

Go right ahead. Start today and you might get it done by about 2025.

T^T



tamaka -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 3:19:08 PM)

I just listened to this and he basically says that reducing the size of the federal government and pushing back responsibility to the states, and even beyond that, to the local communities... as the Founding Fathers designed this to work, is the key to reducing the national debt.


https://www.cato.org/multimedia/daily-podcast/national-debt-do-we-owe-it-ourselves



nighthawk3569 -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 3:21:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

But surely it's no different to other countries where there are distinctly different cultures conglomerated into pockets??

I see no advantage in having separate states with separate laws.
In fact, there are many disadvantages in having that arrangement.

Just as the world shouted down the idea of apartheid, you are advocating the same approach to the US in keeping things separate.
I don't see that as a good thing at all.
By all means keep your states, but they don't have to be autonomous.



The checks and balances of power are the keys to maintaining a free Representative Republic.



But we haven't kept our system of checks and balances...we've sold them to the lobbyist.

'hawk



tamaka -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 3:23:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

But surely it's no different to other countries where there are distinctly different cultures conglomerated into pockets??

I see no advantage in having separate states with separate laws.
In fact, there are many disadvantages in having that arrangement.

Just as the world shouted down the idea of apartheid, you are advocating the same approach to the US in keeping things separate.
I don't see that as a good thing at all.
By all means keep your states, but they don't have to be autonomous.



The checks and balances of power are the keys to maintaining a free Representative Republic.



But we haven't kept our system of checks and balances...we've sold them to the lobbyist.

'hawk



Yep. How the heck do we fix that?



dcnovice -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 3:27:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

If Hillary lost the popular vote and won the electoral vote, her supporters would be fine with it. You can’t protest a system only when you lose.

Interestingly, the EC has never chosen a Democratic president who hadn't won the popular vote.

It's only done that for Republicans: Hayes, B. Harrison, Bush 43, Trump.



dcnovice -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 3:30:46 PM)

quote:

Popular vote will not be fair for that country. Blue states will keep winning.

It's unfair for the person whom most people voted for to win the office? [8|]



dcnovice -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 3:33:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

The only way the electoral college could be taken away is if we dissolve all of the states and just be one country without the state power.

Nonsense.



tamaka -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 3:59:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

The only way the electoral college could be taken away is if we dissolve all of the states and just be one country without the state power.

Nonsense.



Really... you might want to check out the map to see how many states would not surrender their right to influence who gets to be president.


















nighthawk3569 -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 4:06:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


But surely it's no different to other countries where there are distinctly different cultures conglomerated into pockets??

I see no advantage in having separate states with separate laws.
In fact, there are many disadvantages in having that arrangement.

Just as the world shouted down the idea of apartheid, you are advocating the same approach to the US in keeping things separate.
I don't see that as a good thing at all.
By all means keep your states, but they don't have to be autonomous.



The checks and balances of power are the keys to maintaining a free Representative Republic.



But we haven't kept our system of checks and balances...we've sold them to the lobbyist.

'hawk



Yep. How the heck do we fix that?




20 years, in the Federal Penitentiary
...for each offence...might help. Each offence of buying OR selling lobbying power.

'hawk




tamaka -> RE: Popular Vote vs Electoral College (11/13/2016 4:26:46 PM)

Well Trump just said he'll be 'Phasing that out' in his 60 Minutes interview. So hopefully he'll put an end to that eventually. It's probably hard to do when everyone involved is bought and paid for.



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