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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/15/2016 9:29:42 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Personally i think there could be some kind of legal argument of not being able to teach a religion that convinced its followers that if they don't submit to the tenets of the religion they are going to spend eternity burning in hell. I think that is mentally cruel (it sure was to me... i can't tell you how many panic attacks i had as a kid growing up in this). In fact, i think it could be labelled as terrorism.

we may actually agree on something.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/15/2016 9:33:01 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Personally i think there could be some kind of legal argument of not being able to teach a religion that convinced its followers that if they don't submit to the tenets of the religion they are going to spend eternity burning in hell. I think that is mentally cruel (it sure was to me... i can't tell you how many panic attacks i had as a kid growing up in this). In fact, i think it could be labelled as terrorism.

we may actually agree on something.


: )

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/15/2016 9:35:48 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Personally i think there could be some kind of legal argument of not being able to teach a religion that convinced its followers that if they don't submit to the tenets of the religion they are going to spend eternity burning in hell. I think that is mentally cruel (it sure was to me... i can't tell you how many panic attacks i had as a kid growing up in this). In fact, i think it could be labelled as terrorism.


If it were illegal to teach anyone under 18 religion, there would be very few religious people, though some would still fall into that trap.

I was indoctrinated. I swore I wouldnt do it to my kids, and I didnt. My sisters were the same.



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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/15/2016 10:17:27 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

u need to read actual History dude, the Christians attacked them first...

Unless you're angling for a job as a clown, I suggest you take your own advice. The failed attempt to wrest the Holy Land from Muslim control was not a case of Christians having "attacked them first." The Islamic Conquest burst out of Arabia 500 years before and conquered territory from Iberia to the Hindu Sindh.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/15/2016 10:19:59 PM >

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/15/2016 10:28:45 PM   
Curmudgeonly1


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Status: offline 		And if you bother to read your own link you'll see that the first crusade was in response to half a millenium of aggressive muzzie expansionism into Europe.

Pretty much exactly what isis have recently been trying less successfully.



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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/15/2016 11:06:33 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Personally i think there could be some kind of legal argument of not being able to teach a religion that convinced its followers that if they don't submit to the tenets of the religion they are going to spend eternity burning in hell. I think that is mentally cruel (it sure was to me... i can't tell you how many panic attacks i had as a kid growing up in this). In fact, i think it could be labelled as terrorism.

Well if we're going to go there, I think teaching children that their playmates of different faiths are (variously) enemies of God, animals lacking a spiritual soul, etc. etc., would qualify too.

K.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 3:03:22 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
Personally i think there could be some kind of legal argument of not being able to teach a religion that convinced its followers that if they don't submit to the tenets of the religion they are going to spend eternity burning in hell. I think that is mentally cruel (it sure was to me... i can't tell you how many panic attacks i had as a kid growing up in this). In fact, i think it could be labelled as terrorism.


Where has that been from you all this time?

I cans see the fear from you and how that might have been instilled.

But good gosh don't hang on to it forever.

Whatever the case ...

I remember walking home from school in first grade with the knowledge (as it was to me at the time) that I was going to hell when I died, this information being obtained by in-class recitation of various and sundry crimes which fact of my having tripped over at least two of the several indiscretions spelled out in the catechism as being mortal sin, etc. that being newfound awareness obtained in class just that day. "Why didn't they tell me before?!" I kept asking myself. Too late now, this 6 yr. old kid is hell bound, and no way around it. Had I known then what I know now, you might have seen a 6 yr, old stand up and say: "Why don't you just be a frikkin' Calvinist and be done with it!?" But alas, not for that day, as it turns out.

That is a truly wicked, not to mention utterly stupid thing to put into a child's head. Were it not for Protestants, I would have cursed the nuns to hell for that one. Yes, I figured it out later, etc. All good. Life moves on, no Santa or Easter bunny, here we are now, etc. But yeah, the Protestants and their inherently belligerent ways did have a way of making me want to turn back to even that. Fuck that 'God created everybody, so be nice' crap. Not for them. Society is for taking -from-, fuckall giving -to-.

Which is why some significant number of people want to do away with the entirety of it, and did that 200 years ago in some cases.

From experience in dealing with bizzarro Catholics and Protestants and "fucking Jews!" as Ann Coulter says it, ... I'm OK with giving -some- Muslims a bit of space, here. From personal experience, from the vast majority of 'them,' in fact: Let them learn their own way just as the others have learned but still haven't learned yet. All I can say is, I hope they learn faster.





< Message edited by Edwird -- 11/16/2016 3:19:13 AM >

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 4:21:56 AM   
bounty44


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Status: offline 		the latter part of your post kirata is contingent, according to conservative theology, on john 3:16.

otherwise, all Christians would be universalists.

its further related to the teachings that sin separates from god and that the "wages of sin is death", meaning, eternal separation from him. if not for that, then why did Christ die?

if you want to talk more about it, feel invited to send me a private message; would love to talk.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 11/16/2016 4:43:38 AM >

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 4:29:12 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Personally i think there could be some kind of legal argument of not being able to teach a religion that convinced its followers that if they don't submit to the tenets of the religion they are going to spend eternity burning in hell. I think that is mentally cruel (it sure was to me... i can't tell you how many panic attacks i had as a kid growing up in this). In fact, i think it could be labelled as terrorism.

we may actually agree on something.


: )



is it any wonder Christians, conservatives and libertarians view people who hold views like this as the enemy? you are essentially talking about a few abhorrent things---one is, making certain though and the speech that flows from it, illegal. relatedly, youre talking about throwing out the first amendment. lastly, you effectively telling parents would not be able to teach their children the information and the values they themselves hold most dear and desire for their kids.

I don't know how much tongue in cheek this little exchange contained, but if there is any hint of truth to it, I suggest moving to north korea.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 4:41:56 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

u need to read actual History dude, the Christians attacked them first...

Unless you're angling for a job as a clown, I suggest you take your own advice. The failed attempt to wrest the Holy Land from Muslim control was not a case of Christians having "attacked them first." The Islamic Conquest burst out of Arabia 500 years before and conquered territory from Iberia to the Hindu Sindh.

K.





its been my observation here that every time a discussion about Christian morality arises, someone is bound to bring up the crusades.

its almost as if they are implying that same set of geopolitical/religious conditions, and spirit, exists today such that if we don't fight against Christianity, believers are literally ready to take up their swords and attack something.

I don't know a lot about the crusades, but I do know the concept of "just wars"---and id suggest before any more attempts are made to bash contemporary Christians by the actions of their brethren (supposed or otherwise) from centuries ago, people would do well to brush up on that. there has been much written on that in general, and some in particular on the crusades.



< Message edited by bounty44 -- 11/16/2016 4:42:23 AM >

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 5:21:28 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Personally i think there could be some kind of legal argument of not being able to teach a religion that convinced its followers that if they don't submit to the tenets of the religion they are going to spend eternity burning in hell. I think that is mentally cruel (it sure was to me... i can't tell you how many panic attacks i had as a kid growing up in this). In fact, i think it could be labelled as terrorism.

we may actually agree on something.


: )



is it any wonder Christians, conservatives and libertarians view people who hold views like this as the enemy? you are essentially talking about a few abhorrent things---one is, making certain though and the speech that flows from it, illegal. relatedly, youre talking about throwing out the first amendment. lastly, you effectively telling parents would not be able to teach their children the information and the values they themselves hold most dear and desire for their kids.

I don't know how much tongue in cheek this little exchange contained, but if there is any hint of truth to it, I suggest moving to north korea.


Yes the enemy LOL....you sound and act like a crazy fundy.




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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 5:52:05 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the latter part of your post kirata is contingent, according to conservative theology, on john 3:16.

Except that John 3:16 says "gave" -- not "killed," nor "sacrificed," nor "gave to be sacrificed" -- and Jesus himself, who speaks for his Father "as my Father hath taught me" (John 8:28) says twice in Matthew: "I will have mercy and not sacrifice," echoing Hosea 6:6, "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice"; Psalm 51:16, "For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering"; Jeremiah 7:22-23, "For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices"; and Micah 6:6-8, "Wherewith shall I come before the Lord, and bow myself before the high God? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Of course, nobody listened then, so why would they now? There's even a group in Israel that wants to rebuild the Temple and reinstitute blood sacrifices. But the Bible is a library, not a book, and the God of the OT appears to be a case of multiple personality disorder because two very different deities from different textual sources ("E" and "J") were combined in the creation of the Pentateuch, a fact nowhere more obvious than in the first and second chapters of Genesis, and trying to "harmonize" them has required theological contortions that would be the envy of a circus performer. There is nothing more antithetical to the teachings of Christ than killing anything or anybody as an atonement for sin.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/16/2016 6:21:32 AM >

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 6:04:49 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curmudgeonly1

Just because several books are aggregated into a collection doesn't mean they're all the same.

Jesus also said that he had come to fulfill the law.

Fulfill means to finish, terminate, end, complete.

The old 'jew' cult law no longer applies.



Seriously....., this is the first time I am ever hearing that "Fulfill" means "terminate". To me, it means, "To continue it's meaning". I mean even "to fulfill the law" means "to make sure the law is followed as it was meant to be followed"

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/16/2016 6:05:08 AM >

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 6:15:17 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

this is the first time I am ever hearing that "Fulfill" means "terminate". To me, it means, "To continue it's meaning". I mean even "to fulfill the law" means "to make sure the law is followed as it was meant to be followed"

fulfill
    1. to carry out, or bring to realization
    2. to perform or do
    3. to satisfy
    4. to bring to an end; finish or complete
    5. to develop the full potential of
K.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 8:33:27 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
is it any wonder Christians, conservatives and libertarians view people who hold views like this as the enemy?


Please don't include libertarians in your hallucinogenic crap.

Many christians and many 'conservatives' (who are in fact anything but, in real terms) require enemies to put wind to their sails of numerous fantasies, any and all fabrication or distortions of reality to that effect welcome.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 8:56:32 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		...while Libertarians simply need the free-standing fantasy that left alone, everything magically happens wonderfully.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 8:59:23 AM   
WhoreMods


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Status: offline 		I'd definitely question that Libertarians are less prone to inventing enemies to serve as scapegoats than other breeds of reactionaries.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 9:08:34 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

if you want to talk more about it, feel invited to send me a private message; would love to talk.

I must have overlooked this part of your post. I replied to the thread instead. But I would have to agree that at this point we're getting fairly far from the topic. Mea culpa.

K.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 9:09:18 AM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Personally i think there could be some kind of legal argument of not being able to teach a religion that convinced its followers that if they don't submit to the tenets of the religion they are going to spend eternity burning in hell. I think that is mentally cruel (it sure was to me... i can't tell you how many panic attacks i had as a kid growing up in this). In fact, i think it could be labelled as terrorism.

we may actually agree on something.


: )



is it any wonder Christians, conservatives and libertarians view people who hold views like this as the enemy? you are essentially talking about a few abhorrent things---one is, making certain though and the speech that flows from it, illegal. relatedly, youre talking about throwing out the first amendment. lastly, you effectively telling parents would not be able to teach their children the information and the values they themselves hold most dear and desire for their kids.

I don't know how much tongue in cheek this little exchange contained, but if there is any hint of truth to it, I suggest moving to north korea.



Is a girl who was raped over and over again as a young child the enemy of her rapist when she grows up, finds some way to move past the brainwashing by him, and finally tells her story of what happened to her and how badly she was effected by it his enemy? Maybe i guess, if she wants him to now stop raping other young girls now too... because he is.

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RE: How Can Trump Unite the Country? - 11/16/2016 10:31:58 AM   
MercTech


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

He might start by passing out participation trophies to those that voted for Hillary. They like that kind of thing.


Actually, he's probably going to label civil rights groups terrorist organizations and shut them down by force.


Or is he going to prosecute terrorist groups masquerading as civil rights groups. i.e. Black Lives Matter rioters
Look to the liberal government diluted definition of a terrorist and you will find that all the civil rights groups of the 1960s would be labeled as terrorist organizations.

For me, "terrorist" still means a group that perpetrates violence on the civilian population to force the government to do actions adverse to the majority.

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