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RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/13/2016 4:40:04 PM   
epiphiny43


Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


GET BEHIND him.....trust me....you'll win!

(Stop fighting this man!)


On the basis of his climate-change-denying views and plan to pull out of the Paris Convention alone, that would be simply impossible for environmentalists. They'd not see a choice other than to fight.


Well they are wrong. We cannot afford this shit. Too bad, I don't like the idea of harming the environment but the people who want to force a change before the technology exists are the ones destroying the US economy.

And remember, it was a democrat who gave the oil companies the go ahead to frack and wreck our land with impunity. They are exempt from enviromental laws. Their chemicals are not safe, they do not use water and the shit they do use is know to cause kidney problems.

If you know how geology works and how land gets to be fertile you know these chemicals will be back to haunt us.

T^T


What is alarming is that the technology Does exist now to meet or better fossil oil energy short term and long term costs, in part if not wholly. Sustainable energy costs are in free fall with huge improvements in labs now and more about to enter early trials. This without serious Govt. financial support. That the EU energy companies are now investing in the future with sustainable and environmentally improved generation and use, while US focused companies are investing in preventing an usefully early transition says volumes about their faith in being able to manipulate the system, and their focus on short term profits (and stock options, which is the major payment for large corporation executives here) means they are missing the boat themselves while greatly endangering the US position in the world economy..
Realistic economic analyses of energy costs include the clearly obvious cleanup costs of direct and collateral damage of energy sourcing, transportation and use. Just the losses of large scale energy distribution networks are far too wasteful. We are moving to locally generated and used non-fossil, environmentally sustainable energy in a multitude of forms. Because it's Cheaper! All this should have been a major national priority from the first Bush presidency, when the science became irrefutable, and the investment reasonable in relation to clear outcomes. The Republicans and Industry have put us over a generation behind the curve now, serving the interests of Big Oil. Mostly using the same tactics and persuaders that Big Tobacco did before them.
Environmental costs of appliance recycling are now included in the consumer purchase price in the EU, so consumers have realistic pricing long term to make better decisions for our future. Something the US manufacturers fight tooth and nail. Just an example of direct measures we can and should be doing. So we have huge resource recycling gaps and costs we shouldn't. Just the land fills are poisoning many watersheds near urban areas, something that is completely unacceptable long term.
I won't even start on the costs of large scale mono-culture and the synthetic chemical based attack on soil overuse in-fertility and both weed and insect issues. These approaches are now obvious to all serious students as unsustainable and with unacceptable costs long term in both money and the health of current and future generations. And Trump wants to cut Federal oversight of toxic material misuse by 75%.
Same with the poisoning of ground water with fracking. Where current law and the LLC concept lets industry profit while poisoning whole districts, probably permanently in relation to human lifespans.
Trump made noises about Clean Coal, but seems likely to simply remove the vital restrictions on old coal plants that were Maybe starting to get a handle on the Acid Rain that has killed whole species of trees all through the Appalachians. If the promises of the campaign are followed up, we may see Chinese if not Delhi levels of urban air pollution in the US. Making America choke again??

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 11/13/2016 4:42:32 PM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/14/2016 5:41:40 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Neither Democrats nor Republicans are the champions here.

It's become oligarchy vs oligarchy.

(in reply to epiphiny43)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/14/2016 11:47:01 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Neither Democrats nor Republicans are the champions here.

It's become oligarchy vs oligarchy.

Just as Madison learned from history and predicted while failing to protect society against its evils. Faction brought down history's empires and faction will bring down America.

The growth of government consists both of entitlements and the construction of a massive corporate and military establishment, so our government can be visualized as an insurance company with an army. Particularly on the latter score, both parties have built aggressively and almost without interruption since 1940. Madison would have disdained both, but he would have feared the second.

The growth of the state affects us in ways we barely understand. It gives the state a strong and pervasive voice that we hear at every turn, emerging even from mouths we do not associate with the state. The state’s critics on the other hand, and particularly those outside of the binary political process, have an ever softer and fading voice and political discourse of all types, fades increasingly from a center stage.

In Rome because it was a military state, it actually became general against general. That point, was the beginning of the end of Rome.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/14/2016 11:52:49 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Neither Democrats nor Republicans are the champions here.

It's become oligarchy vs oligarchy.

Just as Madison learned from history and predicted while failing to protect society against its evils. Faction brought down history's empires and faction will bring down America.

The growth of government consists both of entitlements and the construction of a massive corporate and military establishment, so our government can be visualized as an insurance company with an army. Particularly on the latter score, both parties have built aggressively and almost without interruption since 1940. Madison would have disdained both, but he would have feared the second.

The growth of the state affects us in ways we barely understand. It gives the state a strong and pervasive voice that we hear at every turn, emerging even from mouths we do not associate with the state. The state’s critics on the other hand, and particularly those outside of the binary political process, have an ever softer and fading voice and political discourse of all types, fades increasingly from a center stage.

In Rome because it was a military state, it actually became general against general. That point, was the beginning of the end of Rome.

Actually no: the end of Rome was when they started letting transvestites use the ladies room in the bathhouses.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/14/2016 1:32:54 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Neither Democrats nor Republicans are the champions here.

It's become oligarchy vs oligarchy.

Just as Madison learned from history and predicted while failing to protect society against its evils. Faction brought down history's empires and faction will bring down America.

The growth of government consists both of entitlements and the construction of a massive corporate and military establishment, so our government can be visualized as an insurance company with an army. Particularly on the latter score, both parties have built aggressively and almost without interruption since 1940. Madison would have disdained both, but he would have feared the second.

The growth of the state affects us in ways we barely understand. It gives the state a strong and pervasive voice that we hear at every turn, emerging even from mouths we do not associate with the state. The state’s critics on the other hand, and particularly those outside of the binary political process, have an ever softer and fading voice and political discourse of all types, fades increasingly from a center stage.

In Rome because it was a military state, it actually became general against general. That point, was the beginning of the end of Rome.

Actually no: the end of Rome was when they started letting transvestites use the ladies room in the bathhouses.

Yes, I think I did read somewhere given Rome was a massive, rich, continually devalued empire, built on war, greed and hedonism, (sounds more familiar all of the time) and the generals either couldn't follow them in or maybe did follow them ya'know...to get their gay ass.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/15/2016 5:30:25 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline 		A bit more realistically, the Roman empire was founded as an expansionist undertaking, and so the trouble really began when it fixed its borders. So long as it could keep adding new territories it worked fine, but as soon as it stopped expanding, it ran into trouble.
(The thing about bathhouses was a dig at the American right's obsession with keeping the transgendered out of female-oriented public toilets. I'd thought that was obvious, meself, but if it needs spelling out...)

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/15/2016 4:21:43 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline 		fuuuuuck....you folks got a lot of shiiiiit going on!!!!

I'm trying like FUCK to respond but...I'm trying to type on my screen.....(keyboard's tweaked)....using the screen.....never done this before.....it's not easy.



(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/15/2016 4:25:59 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline 		shiiiiiit

what da fuq?




vvsgwueitktnbrjqalzmm

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/15/2016 4:27:46 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline 		this whole screen tap shit'.....it''s fucked up!

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/15/2016 4:29:38 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

this whole screen tap shit'.....it''s fucked up!

Well let's see what letters are working on your machine. I see...s h I t f u c k all seem to work well.

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/15/2016 4:29:41 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline 		got it....maybe.

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/16/2016 11:17:59 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Neither Democrats nor Republicans are the champions here.

It's become oligarchy vs oligarchy.


Yep, old money vs new money. Those johnny come lately families that got rich out of oil in the 1930s are just not the DNC kind of people.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/16/2016 12:14:02 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

A bit more realistically, the Roman empire was founded as an expansionist undertaking, and so the trouble really began when it fixed its borders. So long as it could keep adding new territories it worked fine, but as soon as it stopped expanding, it ran into trouble.
(The thing about bathhouses was a dig at the American right's obsession with keeping the transgendered out of female-oriented public toilets. I'd thought that was obvious, meself, but if it needs spelling out...)

I thought it was humorous. I am sure the Romans were among the first to have bathhouses for...everybody no matter their sexual proclivities.

But not to put to fine a point on it, many historians argue that this drama and intrigue between so-called Emperors was the beginning if the end of Rome. Imagine if you can...treaties between Emperors (generals by trade) all inside and within the Roman Empire.

If the eastern and western halves of the empire were hostile towards one another, then in AD 323 a reason was soon found to start a new civil war. Constantine, while campaigning against Gothic invaders, strayed into Licinius' Thracian territory. It is well possible he did so on purposely in order to provoke a war. Be that as it may, Licinius took this as the reason to declare war in spring AD 324.

But it was once again Constantine who moved to attack first in AD 324 with 120'000 infantry and 10'000 cavalry against Licinius' 150'000 infantry and 15'000 cavalry based at Hadrianopolis. On 3 July AD 324 he severely defeated Licinius' forces at Hadrianopolis and shortly after his fleet won victories at sea.

Licinius fled across the Bosporus to Asia Minor (Turkey), but Constantine having brought with him a fleet of two thousand transport vessels ferried his army across the water and forced the decisive battle of Chrysopolis where he utterly defeated Licinius (18 September AD 324). Licinius was imprisoned and later executed.

Alas Constantine was sole emperor of the entire Roman world.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/16/2016 12:31:11 PM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline 		I've read Gibbon as well.

Would Constantine and Licinius have been drawn into conflict if they'd both been able to look for conquests further afield, rather than contesting the same limited territories as they shrank back from external threats? That's what I meant about the Empire being doomed once it ceased to expand, and that issue goes back a lot further than Constantine, sadly. Of course, there are always limits to expansion, so the Empire could never have been sustained indefinitely.

And yes, you're dead right that the Romans were the pioneers of bathhouses. Aren't Turkish baths a survivor of the Imperial legacy that the Byzantines saw more worthy of perpetuating than Charlemagne did?

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/16/2016 3:29:40 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

I've read Gibbon as well.

Would Constantine and Licinius have been drawn into conflict if they'd both been able to look for conquests further afield, rather than contesting the same limited territories as they shrank back from external threats? That's what I meant about the Empire being doomed once it ceased to expand, and that issue goes back a lot further than Constantine, sadly. Of course, there are always limits to expansion, so the Empire could never have been sustained indefinitely.

And yes, you're dead right that the Romans were the pioneers of bathhouses. Aren't Turkish baths a survivor of the Imperial legacy that the Byzantines saw more worthy of perpetuating than Charlemagne did?

Maybe, if Constantine's battles with the Goths were defensive in nature as [they] had little to offer Rome. Maybe Rome thought the Goths were just more white trash. Also after 400 years, the failed attempt to keep Britain' as well, was a failure to keep expanding.

Plus yes, one could easily argue that the Turkish baths gained their infamy from the vestiges of the Roman bath. But is more closely related to ancient Greek and ancient Roman bathing practices which they developed into a high art. Courtships and business prevailed in the Roman bath.

Many were no doubt built first by Romans in Turkey very early on. Recent discoveries found that such baths were used by Roman Gladiators in Turkey.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 11/16/2016 3:31:31 PM >

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: All you Dump Trump folks.....read on: - 11/16/2016 3:39:57 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Neither Democrats nor Republicans are the champions here.

It's become oligarchy vs oligarchy.


Yep, old money vs new money. Those johnny come lately families that got rich out of oil in the 1930s are just not the DNC kind of people.

I am not sure I agree with the term versus. Old money oil and other, was more family money whereas now it's cashing out of corporate money and I think they are finding a way to successfully team up rather than compete with each other.

Yes, one will find the occasional Soros or more left wing money but I think most old and new wealth...swings right.



_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 36
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