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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 4:53:09 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Not only will Greta tell you that, from half way around the world, she knows English better than you do, but she also knows your own country's history better than you do, and if you were to give description of what happens in your own neighborhood by eye ball and ears description, she is quite eager, from 11,000 miles away, to explain it all to you, in a way that leaves you scratching your head as to how such a creature could have ever arrived at this juncture of evolution in the first place.

Very nice bedtime story Edwird.

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 5:30:10 AM   
Edwird


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Maybe because of the linguist's assertion that "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy."

And at present, the US has the guns.

But much beyond that, we have Cab Calloway and Mose Allison.

May it please the court;
(My link says 1939, But I could have sworn an earlier date when I first came upon it)

The Hepster’s Dictionary
Foreword

Some six years ago I compiled the first glossary of words, expressions, and the general patois employed by musicians and entertainers in New York’s teeming Harlem. That the general public agreed with me is amply evidenced by the fact that the present issue is the sixth edition since 1938 and is the official jive language reference book of the New York Public Library.

“Jive talk” is now an everyday part of the English language. Its usage is now accepted in the movies, on the stage, and in the song products of Tin Pan Alley. It is reasonable to assume that jive will find new avenues in such hitherto remote places as Australia, the South Pacific, North Africa, China, Italy, France, Sicily, and inevitably Germany and wherever our Armed Forces may serve.

I don’t want to lend the impression here that the many words contained in this edition are the figments of my imagination. They were gathered from every conceivable source. Many first saw the light of printer’s ink in Billy Rowe’s widely read column “The Notebook,” in the Pittsburgh Courier.

To the many persons who have contributed to this and the other editions, this volume is respectfully and gratefully dedicated.

—Cab Calloway

The full Hepster's Dictionary herein.

A few examples -

Cop (v.): to get, to obtain (see collar; knock).

Fews and two (n.): money or cash in small quantity.

Fine dinner (n.): a good-looking girl.

Gabriels (n.): trumpet players.

Gimme some skin (v.): shake hands.

Groovy (adj.): fine. Ex., “I feel groovy.”

Hard spiel (n.): interesting line of talk.

Hep cat (n.): a guy who knows all the answers, understands jive.


All this way before the beatniks or hippies or what even half any urban folk knew in the 60's.



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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 5:32:57 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Not only will Greta tell you that, from half way around the world, she knows English better than you do, but she also knows your own country's history better than you do, and if you were to give description of what happens in your own neighborhood by eye ball and ears description, she is quite eager, from 11,000 miles away, to explain it all to you, in a way that leaves you scratching your head as to how such a creature could have ever arrived at this juncture of evolution in the first place.

Very nice bedtime story Edwird.


Some bedtime stories are fact. Not the ones you want to hear, but this one was about several instances of your doing exactly what I described.

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 5:48:07 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		The national languages of Switzerland are; German, French, Italian, Romansh.
And the Swede - Potato
Englanders - waffle


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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 5:56:57 AM   
Termyn8or


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Due to my field of endeavor I have been exposed to quite a few European immigrants. I had a deal with a Swede and wound up talking on the phone with him and rarely have I ever heard such perfect English. Also, in the correspondence that preceded there was not one grammatical or spelling error and sentence construction was perfect.

I worked for a Bylorus who was trilingual. Russian, Polish and English. You know how many USians pronounce Puerto Rico "porter rico" ? Not this guy, it was clearly "pwerto rico" as it should be.

Then we got my buddy, went to Catholic schools. Actually pronounces the "H" in words like where, what and such and makes it sound totally natural.

Yet when I took a city bus to work I couldn't understand WTF these people were saying.

Perhaps that can answer Ron's question but he must have missed the part where primarily English speaking countries were excluded from the list. And of course I know that English is not the official language of the US. However the fact that the Constitution is in English it is pretty much de facto established.

Then we got this Mexican who took my job. Well not really, I had been gone a while and got called back part time, that's how I met him. (I actually traded that job with another tech and collectively we saved at least fifty miles a day drive time, he actually took that guy's job) I can't understand him and it has nothing to do with an accent or anything, he has a nice strong voice my weak ears can hear but lacks teeth and therefore has trouble making the sounds. Try having all your front teeth pulled and then talk. I have been told it is not the easiest thing to do. It's like his lips are flapping in the breeze. I do not mean that as a putdown, he did not talk too much or anything like that, but that is pretty much how it sounded.

And then we have the Hooked On Phonics kids. Never made it past that stage so they don't know the difference between there, their and they're. Some think that no matter what if the word "to" occurs at the end of a sentence it automatically gets two "O"s. Others seem to have a terrible time with "lose" versus "loose".

This is all the result of a failed educational system. We are not talking a few isolated instances here, those types of errors are quite common. That means the teachers obviously don't know which reflects on the system like thirty years ago. How could you possibly be an English teacher and not teach the difference between there, their and they're ? And never forget, Obama's hometown with "This Is Are Story".

Hooked On Phonics is great, as a beginning. But it is not the end of it. It seems that maybe in time there will be like 10 % of the US population that proofreads everything for the rest. And you know what ? You can't tell with politicians because it is all proofed. And a few others. Even authors of books, even textbooks. Even English textbooks I would bet.

Now here's a little problem that might be interesting. In the case of "English textbooks" how do you know that I mean textbooks about the English language rather than those on any subject that are simply written in the English language ? I mean without up and spelling it out completely.

I think you knew from context. However people do quote so if the quote is selected then the context might be gone. We get alot out of context, perhaps too much.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 11/18/2016 6:01:43 AM >

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 6:02:31 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
The national languages of Switzerland are; German, French, Italian, Romansh.
And the Swede - PotatoEnglanders - waffle


Potatoes and waffles seem to be the latest Sunday brunch thing here in the States, being all so disinterested or disinclined to any but culinary considerations regarding international matters.

But yes, any American Britophile is certainly well acquainted with war hero Sir Waffleford and his great munificence to benefit of his home county of Waffleshire, subsequent to his great victory at Waffleshoe.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 11/18/2016 6:16:38 AM >

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 6:27:17 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		I actually did a bit on the swiss and why I dislike them but i took it out 4 languages is the stuff of forked tongues to boot.

Ah, Blackadder let me see if I can find the clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOSYiT2iG08

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmk4PfuiPVY

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 6:51:12 AM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		Odd that the country with the most English speakers - India - didn't make the list either. While English is an official language there it is not as widely spoken as Hindi.


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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 7:07:18 AM   
WhoreMods


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Status: offline 		Good point. The fact that Pakistan is there but India isn't definitely seems a bit strange.

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 7:40:28 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		I tried a bit of Russian, Norwegian, Italian and Mexican (spanish fuk of imperialist pigdawgs) Gaelic I know about two words and have shag all interest in knowing any more...Actually 1st and second year year at our high schools, well certainly in Scotland we got french for reasons that totally escaped me then, and now.


Slipper notes:
1. For the record I did not shag the Russian - technically she was Ukrainian - the rest I did for that was the gentlemanly thingy to do.
2. A welsh women dried humped my leg (she was lovely intelligent women with fine orbs)
3. English, well I plundered a few and to a women they said they dont make men like you in our lands (okay I made that bit up)- not that I could understand 25% their accents

Runrig anyone? Yes i was therein 2003 and I was blootered...yes i shagged a wench at the end of the night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH-3pg0pWvM Cnoc Na Feille



< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 11/18/2016 8:05:18 AM >

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 7:48:58 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Considering Singapore is #6 in the list, I presume you skipped English classes??

Either that or the list is horribly inaccurate.

I think my English is pretty good since, since my English education ended at 12 yr old! Pretty much my entire education ended at 12 yr old. I am not an educated person in terms of paper education. I don't have any paper qualifications.
My standard of English is the English standard of a 12 yr old Singaporean with bad grades for English. Borderline 60%. And at that age, most of us have a second language too, and a third language that we gotta learn from home, at least just verbally. So I got Mandarin as second language, and both my parents speak two different dialects, so I gotta learn them both. I got 4 languages to get the hang of since a kid. So imagine a regular 12 yr old with top grades around here, where they will be.

I feel absolutely no shame in my terrible English. English speakers should be more concern that all they can manage in their entire life is one language while the rest of the world, can handle easily 3.


A good explanation of why your English is sooo bad.
Rarely, if ever, using words with a past tense.
Something that 8yo students learn - even bad students.


I only speak 2 languages, and that's all I'll ever need in my life.
I speak English and International.
I know the phonetic alphabet if I need to spell out something.
I also know the major universal words that the world knows: Coke, Taxi, Coffee and fuck off.

I don't need anything else.
If people can't be bothered to learn the International language (required by all pilots and boat captains), I can't be assed with them.


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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 8:12:41 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Good point. The fact that Pakistan is there but India isn't definitely seems a bit strange.

Proof positive that the list is not what it seems and certainly not "seriously accurate" as Greta claims.

But like many compiled lists, it depends on sample size and location.
A bit like adverts that clearly state "76% of women approve of..." and you'll see a sample size of only 162 or an equally ridiculously small number.

When it come to language assessment, location of the sample is critical.
For instance, compare 'BBC English' or 'the Queens English' with that spoken in Scotland or Newcastle or Liverpool etc - it is vastly different.
Colloquialisms aside, there are many areas where the term 'English' is questionable.

The USA does not speak English - they speak American, very loosely aligned to English but with their own words and spellings that are completely different.


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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 8:19:21 AM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

English speakers should be more concern that all they can manage in their entire life is one language while the rest of the world, can handle easily 3.


Old joke
What do you call a person who speaks 3 languages? Trilingual

What do you call a person who speaks 2 language? Bilingual

What do you call a person who speaks 1 language? American

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 9:30:30 AM   
Edwird


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Hence the stale element of ... humor? Really?

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 9:58:07 AM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Odd that the country with the most English speakers - India - didn't make the list either. While English is an official language there it is not as widely spoken as Hindi.



Call tech support and hear the supposed English they speak. The way they speak and the usually poor quality of the audio on a telephone ten thousand miles away makes them unintelligible frequently. Writing wise they are probably fine, but running eighteen syllable past you in 35 milliseconds is not fine. Sometimes they are harder to understand than a drunk auctioneer.

So maybe whoever made that list meant who spoke English THAT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND.

T^T

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 10:00:47 AM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

Every dutch person I met also speaks perfect English, so their number 1 ranking makes sense!


You even have to listen for a while to hear an accent, I've found. Same has been true, for me, with the Danish.


Nah, your ear is just not trained enough to pick it up. I can pick up the accent immediately (to the point where I can tell whether it's a Flemish or a Dutch speaker, and in some cases pinpoint the province they're from, in just a couple of sentences).
My husband used to have trouble hearing my accent as well, but he can now tell a Flemish/Dutch accent almost immediately as well, though he can't tell the difference between the two.

There definitely is a very distinct accent there (it's especially noticeable in words that start with 'th') it's just that because the language is already phonetically so close to English that your ear goes looking for an English regional accent first (which happens even if you know the person is a foreigner), and it's not until it doesn't find it that you register it as a foreign accent. Once you make the switch though, you have no problem picking up on the foreigness of it at all.

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 11:54:59 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
The USA does not speak English - they speak American, very loosely aligned to English but with their own words and spellings that are completely different.

Let's be charitable and call it a dialect. I've never bought that publishing a dictionary full of incorrect spellings qualifies something as a separate language, myself. There's regional variations that are more distinct than any of the yank accents I've heard within the UK, after all.

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 12:25:10 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:


The USA does not speak English - they speak American, very loosely aligned to English but with their own words and spellings that are completely different.

You might want to notify the world of linguistics. I'm sure they would appreciate your insights.

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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 1:28:47 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

There definitely is a very distinct accent there (it's especially noticeable in words that start with 'th') it's just that because the language is already phonetically so close to English that your ear goes looking for an English regional accent first (which happens even if you know the person is a foreigner), and it's not until it doesn't find it that you register it as a foreign accent. Once you make the switch though, you have no problem picking up on the foreigness of it at all.


True, I find it easier these days. I shared a house with a German who spoke very good English a while ago ... I did indeed go through various regional accents in my head before realising English wasn't his first language.

What's your own first language, Ishtar?


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RE: English Proficiency Ranking by Countries - 11/18/2016 1:37:10 PM   
PeonForHer


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On the subject of accents: this I found really interesting. Various actors in various films, their accents analysed by an expert on the subject. Philip Seymour Hoffman and Daniel Day Lewis stand out; others (most of them unsurprisingly to me) do awful accents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDvESEXcgE

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