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The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/25/2016 9:54:00 AM   
vincentML


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The Sioux battle for religious freedom and existential water. They claim damage to their burial sites and impending pollution of their drinking water.

There is an epic clash of two cultures — one with a guiding ethic of harmony between people and nature, the other driven by an ethos that encourages the exploitation of both. Yet, for months, our clueless media gave this matchup little coverage.

For the face-off is between Energy Transfer Partners, one of the world’s largest pipeline corporations, and the Standing Rock Lakota Sioux tribe. It’s not merely big news, but the panoramic story of America itself. It’s a real reality show — a cultural, political and moral drama featuring raw greed, grassroots courage, class war, ancient rites, human rights, defenders of the common good, the most nefarious Texas oilman since J. R. Ewing, a historic gathering of Native American tribes and a Bull Connor-style sheriff — all on location near a North Dakota town named Cannon Ball!

The Dakota Access Pipeline is a massive 1,172-mile-long pipeline being constructed by Energy Transfer Partners. It will cut through North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa and Illinois. This pipeline, owned by oilman Kelcy Warren, crosses 200 rivers and countless farms, and it cuts through the ancestral lands and burial grounds of the tribe.

The pipeline risks economic and environmental disaster. The corporation plans to bury its oil pipeline under the Missouri, beneath the Lakota people’s main source of water for drinking, bathing, irrigation, fishing and recreation. As a Lakota phrase says, water is life — and one rupture could be ruinous.
SOURCE

They have been arrested and physically attacked with water cannon on a freezing cold night.

Reuters photographer Stephanie Keith recently traveled to North Dakota to cover the ongoing protest against the construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL), a $3.8 billion oil pipeline meant to carry crude oil from the Bakken oil fields through the Dakotas and Iowa, to Illinois. Protesters from the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, hundreds of other Native Americans and their supporters are now encamped near the Backwater Bridge, with law enforcement stationed behind a roadblock on the opposite side. According to Reuters, last night hundreds of protesters made attempts to force their way through the barricades, reportedly setting dozens of fires. They were met with water cannons, pepper spray, tear gas, and rubber bullets, resulting in dozens of injuries. Below are images from last night, and some from the previous several days at the protest site.
SOURCE

Democrats remain quiet. The pipeline is being funded by Big Oil and Wall Street firms, their major political donors.

SOURCE

This is the dark, dirty face of predatory capitalism in America and the failure of money politics.

A shame, innit?


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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.
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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/25/2016 10:21:24 AM   
WickedsDesire


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I thought they halted this?
And some TV star arrested bubbling away

I am not sure how these pipes are designed I forget :(....

I also thought it was an above ground oil pipeline?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Alaska_Pipeline_System#Incidents

We have various pipelines oil and also one gas one to Norway, probably another to mainland Europe, these are not designed for things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storegga_Slide People always think Europe, well parts of it are geologically stable - they are not and that covers time. America less so by a mile.

Want your gas/oil afraid you are going to have to pipe it...by train is a recipe for disaster. As is by tanker.


< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 11/25/2016 10:22:12 AM >

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/25/2016 10:33:38 AM   
vincentML


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It is well below ground but there is concern about seepage. Deep Water Horizon comes to mind.

The most galling thing to me about this whole messy business, aside from our nation's long history of fucking the First People, is that the Democrats, alleged champions of the poor and disenfranchised cower silently for fear of annoying their money sources.



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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/25/2016 11:06:24 AM   
WickedsDesire


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You cannot bury pipelines...Power-lines yes, and always...we never do - observe a long drawn out battle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_Scotland#Beauly-Denny_power_line out battle as Denny is my town...which is curious because we have many a wind turbine Carron valley etc that went up in the last 15 years.

Seepage (from damage fracture-leaks) would be a serious concern and not easily detected until it is too late. And then you can never contain those

Given the geological nature of America it would be susceptible to damage many times over the next 100 years which is probably less than the design life of the pipeline itself….Steel or concrete? I think the Alaskan one was steel and designed for a magnitude 7-9 (it’s not enough the three most powerful quakes on earth – Chile was one, then I think Alaska was the next one…One of my first main jobs was concrete technical malarkey and our pipe-lines were always made of concrete…I am sure that it still the case for the ones I mentioned

You got wiki link to this one V

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37322266 I remember reading that story.

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/25/2016 12:08:32 PM   
vincentML


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I cannot debate your experience, W, however here is a wiki article with many details including that the pipe line will be at least two feet underground.

Many farms have been compensated (some under eminent domain grabs in Iowa) So, it is not only NA land that is of concern.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Access_Pipeline

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/25/2016 3:52:37 PM   
MrRodgers


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As I've written and will continue to do so, the capitalist (white) is here to make some fucking money and doesn't give a fuck how he goes about doing it. I am sure these (white) capitalists feel they are entitled to the pipeline and are being victimized by the redskins. After all, these protesters are...'not like us.'

Plus, seeing as how the public (white man) has put the repubs (capitalist [white] party) in power, just what do you expect the democrats to do about this ? Yes, both parties are slave to the same pay master without which...neither feels they have a chance at any power, so.....?

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/25/2016 5:22:57 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

As I've written and will continue to do so, the capitalist (white) is here to make some fucking money and doesn't give a fuck how he goes about doing it. I am sure these (white) capitalists feel they are entitled to the pipeline and are being victimized by the redskins. After all, these protesters are...'not like us.'

Plus, seeing as how the public (white man) has put the repubs (capitalist [white] party) in power, just what do you expect the democrats to do about this ? Yes, both parties are slave to the same pay master without which...neither feels they have a chance at any power, so.....?

I expect nothing from the political parties at this point.

What I hope is that the a disruptive protest will grow and spread to other venues.

Bernie Sanders pointed out that the oil pipeline is an egregious (my word) slap in the face to the sovereignty of Native Americans, it flies in the face of a strategy to remedy a declining supply of earth's clean drinking water, and thirdly it is a fist slap to the climate change issue and efforts to free the world of dependence on fossil fuels.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/25/2016 9:34:50 PM   
RottenJohnny


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FR

If they're worried about seepage then it would be best to allow the new pipeline that will be constructed with new materials using new methods than to wait for another old one to fail.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
You cannot bury pipelines...

WTF? Of course you can. Our country is littered with them.

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 12:51:17 AM   
Edwird


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I'm always interested in this sort of thing, the new materials for this and other purposes.

What new materials or processes are you implying? I'm not at all making attempt at snark, here, this a genuine area of interest for me.

Any jackshit econo-physics-materials-science wannabe would be interested. How could they not?

The graphene revolution is yet to be upon us, but again, I encourage your words on the subject, whether that be what you were referring to or not.


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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 3:22:00 AM   
Termyn8or


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FR

If they built that pipeline to last a thousand years, and never never leak, I would be all for it. It gets trucks off the road which means less CO2, as well as the heat generated. The oil is more vulnerable in tankers, there could be an accident. Less trucks also means less gas for four wheelers, they don't have to punch it to pass, and there is generally less congestion on the highway. And cars that are aerodynamic enough to slip though the air at 90 MPH can do so. It is a good thing.

If it does not leak.

There is a way but it costs more, and that is to pull it instead of push it. In other words, put the pumps on the output side and SUCK the oil. That way if there is a leak you get some air in there and you know there is a leak. If you push it into the pipe it could leak and you never know.

Your modern furnaces for example, absolutely cannot put CO into your house. I remember a story about some folks down south had a hick TV tech who might have been able to fix shit but was not well read, to say the least.

People said they kept on getting soot on the front of the picture tube. When that high voltage comes up it is almost like an air cleaner. The stupid fuck told them it was a pinhole leak in the picture tube and they had him take it out to the porch, thinking that the gas in the glass would kill them.

Next couple days the whole family was found dead from CO poisoning. It was a leaky heat exchanger in the furnace. As much as I dislike new technology, the newer induced draft furnaces cannot do that. Period. You can drill holes in those tubular heat exchangers and not get one molecule of CO in you house because it is always under a vacuum and pumped up the chimney.

I also like the electronic control of car engines. When GM really got on it and said fuck the distributor they had it made, even with TBFI. Put the oil pump right on the crank, doubling the RPMs of it, use multiple coils, from what I hear Ross Perot had alot to do with that and that is how he made money. But it was nice, in zero degree weather you could just get in the car and go, you did not have to warm it up.

Don't get me wrong, the old way could be tweaked. I had cars with Quadrajets that could be driven almost immediately, but do you know what it takes to tweak the thing to be able to do that ? It is a pain in the ass. With the ECM, it was all done automatically and immediately.

But back to the subject, these people are protesting against something that might be good for them. They want more tankers on the road ? More traffic ? The demand for oil is not going to decrease anytime soon. All the other technologies simply are not cutting it, like electric cars and solar recharging them and all that.

I guess these Injuns have learned well, and this it a perfect example of NIMBY. They would like to have less trucks on the road, who the fuck wouldn't ? So we need a pipeline but don't put it here.

The protesters are not very smart, definitely not MENSA material, but the cops should not have done what they did. This is redress of our grievances.

Wait until White Man rebels. We'll fucking show them. We won't hide in schools and churches like the Arabs, we will be all over the place and armed with weapons just as good as they have. "you hit the wrong building bitch !" PLINK

White Man invented war. We enslaved Blacks who were three times our physical strength. At one time the sun never set on the British Empire. The White Egyptians enslaved the Jews. The Jews ! (they had it coming though but that is a subject for another thread)

My Dad was in a bar with a Black guy and the Black guy said something about a race war. Note this is Cleveland, Ohio and we already had a race war and we won and kept it out of the papers. You will not get alot of info on that because people kept their mouth shut.

Know what he told this Black guy ? "Fine nigger, start it right now and we will finish it and stack you up on the streetcorners like cordwood, White Man invented war and we will kill you ALL".

The olman might have been a bit of a racist, the Black guy who worked for us, well they were drinking booze, started talking about White Women and then about my sister, the olman's daughter. The olman shoved a shotgun down his throat. then me and the other kids took him to the hospital. I was pissed off, he was a good employee and I pretty much figured he would not be in the next day.

Now the Injuns I respect more. We took their land, well not me, my family came much later. But I know they got really fucked over. If you talk to Natives you can learn a few things. The US gave them blankets infected with disease. And scalping ? Whites started that and taught them. Don't believe it ? Well for a lesson in the morality of the US government look up "tuskeegee". Those people, even back to the founders of the country, were just as bad as the scumbags we have today and don't ever forget that.

Ever.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 11/26/2016 3:29:37 AM >

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 7:11:49 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The Dakota Access Pipeline is a massive 1,172-mile-long pipeline being constructed by Energy Transfer Partners. It will cut through North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa and Illinois. This pipeline, owned by oilman Kelcy Warren, crosses 200 rivers and countless farms, and it cuts through the ancestral lands and burial grounds of the tribe.
Well it doesn't cut across their reservation, so their "ancestral lands and burial grounds" must be somewhere else on lands belonging to someone else.

quote:

The pipeline risks economic and environmental disaster. The corporation plans to bury its oil pipeline under the Missouri, beneath the Lakota people’s main source of water for drinking, bathing, irrigation, fishing and recreation. As a Lakota phrase says, water is life — and one rupture could be ruinous.[/color] SOURCE
There are already 8 pipelines under the Missouri - why is this one any different?



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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 10:09:16 AM   
Nnanji


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Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

If they built that pipeline to last a thousand years, and never never leak, I would be all for it. It gets trucks off the road which means less CO2, as well as the heat generated. The oil is more vulnerable in tankers, there could be an accident. Less trucks also means less gas for four wheelers, they don't have to punch it to pass, and there is generally less congestion on the highway. And cars that are aerodynamic enough to slip though the air at 90 MPH can do so. It is a good thing.

If it does not leak.

There is a way but it costs more, and that is to pull it instead of push it. In other words, put the pumps on the output side and SUCK the oil. That way if there is a leak you get some air in there and you know there is a leak. If you push it into the pipe it could leak and you never know.

Your modern furnaces for example, absolutely cannot put CO into your house. I remember a story about some folks down south had a hick TV tech who might have been able to fix shit but was not well read, to say the least.

People said they kept on getting soot on the front of the picture tube. When that high voltage comes up it is almost like an air cleaner. The stupid fuck told them it was a pinhole leak in the picture tube and they had him take it out to the porch, thinking that the gas in the glass would kill them.

Next couple days the whole family was found dead from CO poisoning. It was a leaky heat exchanger in the furnace. As much as I dislike new technology, the newer induced draft furnaces cannot do that. Period. You can drill holes in those tubular heat exchangers and not get one molecule of CO in you house because it is always under a vacuum and pumped up the chimney.

I also like the electronic control of car engines. When GM really got on it and said fuck the distributor they had it made, even with TBFI. Put the oil pump right on the crank, doubling the RPMs of it, use multiple coils, from what I hear Ross Perot had alot to do with that and that is how he made money. But it was nice, in zero degree weather you could just get in the car and go, you did not have to warm it up.

Don't get me wrong, the old way could be tweaked. I had cars with Quadrajets that could be driven almost immediately, but do you know what it takes to tweak the thing to be able to do that ? It is a pain in the ass. With the ECM, it was all done automatically and immediately.

But back to the subject, these people are protesting against something that might be good for them. They want more tankers on the road ? More traffic ? The demand for oil is not going to decrease anytime soon. All the other technologies simply are not cutting it, like electric cars and solar recharging them and all that.

I guess these Injuns have learned well, and this it a perfect example of NIMBY. They would like to have less trucks on the road, who the fuck wouldn't ? So we need a pipeline but don't put it here.

The protesters are not very smart, definitely not MENSA material, but the cops should not have done what they did. This is redress of our grievances.

Wait until White Man rebels. We'll fucking show them. We won't hide in schools and churches like the Arabs, we will be all over the place and armed with weapons just as good as they have. "you hit the wrong building bitch !" PLINK

White Man invented war. We enslaved Blacks who were three times our physical strength. At one time the sun never set on the British Empire. The White Egyptians enslaved the Jews. The Jews ! (they had it coming though but that is a subject for another thread)

My Dad was in a bar with a Black guy and the Black guy said something about a race war. Note this is Cleveland, Ohio and we already had a race war and we won and kept it out of the papers. You will not get alot of info on that because people kept their mouth shut.

Know what he told this Black guy ? "Fine nigger, start it right now and we will finish it and stack you up on the streetcorners like cordwood, White Man invented war and we will kill you ALL".

The olman might have been a bit of a racist, the Black guy who worked for us, well they were drinking booze, started talking about White Women and then about my sister, the olman's daughter. The olman shoved a shotgun down his throat. then me and the other kids took him to the hospital. I was pissed off, he was a good employee and I pretty much figured he would not be in the next day.

Now the Injuns I respect more. We took their land, well not me, my family came much later. But I know they got really fucked over. If you talk to Natives you can learn a few things. The US gave them blankets infected with disease. And scalping ? Whites started that and taught them. Don't believe it ? Well for a lesson in the morality of the US government look up "tuskeegee". Those people, even back to the founders of the country, were just as bad as the scumbags we have today and don't ever forget that.

Ever.

T^T

Just for informational purposes. Technically, there is no such thing as "sucking". You create a low pressure area and the higher pressure on the other side pushes. Then you run into "NPSH".

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/npsh-net-positive-suction-head-d_634.html

For instance, water can be "sucked" about 32-feet in elevation before the low pressure vaporizes the water, cavitation occurs and pump prime is lost. Frankly, I don't know what the NPSH of crude oil is, don't want to look it up or calculate it either.

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 10:29:49 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Well it doesn't cut across their reservation, so their "ancestral lands and burial grounds" must be somewhere else on lands belonging to someone else.

Ownership of the land north of the Reservation is in dispute. The Lakota tribe claims it was taken as a result of a broken treaty.

The Missouri is a lengthy river. How many of those eight pipelines you speak of endanger Native drinking water?

_____________________________

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 10:49:08 AM   
DrSA


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How many of those eight pipelines you speak of endanger Native drinking water?

So you are saying that "native americans on the reservation" only drink water coming out of the river? They don't clean or process it either? Well hell, why aren't they protesting all the farmers and shit up-river who have cattle on the tributaries that drink, piss and shit in or on the banks of the river?

Like it or not - Legal standard is that you have to BE HARMED before you have a claim. The mere "possibility" (and a very slim one in this case assuming no eco-terrorism) of harm does not give you legal standing to stop someone from doing what they want on land they own and you don't.

They have been arrested and physically attacked with water cannon on a freezing cold night.
Oh the horror. What else would you expect when - per the article you quoted - they broke through barricades (trespassing and destruction of property at the least) and set "dozens of fires". So in other words you are boo-hoo'ing the fact that arsonists where arrested and hit with water. Well, I know it stretches the idea of common sense - but when someone is trying to start a fire, hitting them (and those accomplices by presence and support) with big ole water cannons just seems like a good way to put the fire (and firebug) out of commission before they get started.

They don't own the land - so they don't have a say in how its used. Private Property rights still matter.

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 11:00:39 AM   
Nnanji


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Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The Sioux battle for religious freedom and existential water. They claim damage to their burial sites and impending pollution of their drinking water.

There is an epic clash of two cultures — one with a guiding ethic of harmony between people and nature, the other driven by an ethos that encourages the exploitation of both. Yet, for months, our clueless media gave this matchup little coverage.

For the face-off is between Energy Transfer Partners, one of the world’s largest pipeline corporations, and the Standing Rock Lakota Sioux tribe. It’s not merely big news, but the panoramic story of America itself. It’s a real reality show — a cultural, political and moral drama featuring raw greed, grassroots courage, class war, ancient rites, human rights, defenders of the common good, the most nefarious Texas oilman since J. R. Ewing, a historic gathering of Native American tribes and a Bull Connor-style sheriff — all on location near a North Dakota town named Cannon Ball!

The Dakota Access Pipeline is a massive 1,172-mile-long pipeline being constructed by Energy Transfer Partners. It will cut through North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa and Illinois. This pipeline, owned by oilman Kelcy Warren, crosses 200 rivers and countless farms, and it cuts through the ancestral lands and burial grounds of the tribe.

The pipeline risks economic and environmental disaster. The corporation plans to bury its oil pipeline under the Missouri, beneath the Lakota people’s main source of water for drinking, bathing, irrigation, fishing and recreation. As a Lakota phrase says, water is life — and one rupture could be ruinous.
SOURCE

They have been arrested and physically attacked with water cannon on a freezing cold night.

Reuters photographer Stephanie Keith recently traveled to North Dakota to cover the ongoing protest against the construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL), a $3.8 billion oil pipeline meant to carry crude oil from the Bakken oil fields through the Dakotas and Iowa, to Illinois. Protesters from the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, hundreds of other Native Americans and their supporters are now encamped near the Backwater Bridge, with law enforcement stationed behind a roadblock on the opposite side. According to Reuters, last night hundreds of protesters made attempts to force their way through the barricades, reportedly setting dozens of fires. They were met with water cannons, pepper spray, tear gas, and rubber bullets, resulting in dozens of injuries. Below are images from last night, and some from the previous several days at the protest site.
SOURCE

Democrats remain quiet. The pipeline is being funded by Big Oil and Wall Street firms, their major political donors.

SOURCE

This is the dark, dirty face of predatory capitalism in America and the failure of money politics.

A shame, innit?


quote:

There is an epic clash of two cultures — one with a guiding ethic of harmony between people and nature, the other driven by an ethos that encourages the exploitation of both. Yet, for months, our clueless media gave this matchup little coverage.


What a story. And that's all it is, a story. I was on an elk hunting trip in Montana, having lunch in a diner, and struck up a conversation with a woman at the next table. She was (and I hate to say this in my story) white and married to a Native American. We talked elk hunting and she told us how her husband's tribe was trying to take away all of his hunting rights because he married a white woman and moved a few miles off the reservation to be close to a job.

People are people. One does not have an entire culture of harmony between people and nature. The other isn't driven only by exploitation.

I know that in the area I live there are literally hundreds of oil and gas pipelines underground. In fact, pretty much anywhere in the U.S. Where there is a military base that doesn't have its own oil refinery is connected to a fuel pipeline. This is not a story of greed so much as keeping Americans warm and in light. I admit that fossil fuel isn't politically correct, but that's no reason to examine this "story" as a case of greed fighting ethics of a better knowing class.

I heard all of these same things when the Alaska oil pipeline was proposed. In between the two pipelines I've participated in lots of Environmental Impact Reports that dealt with this sort of thing, including Native American burial sites. There's usually years of work and compromise between all parties for such things. It's silly to boil all of this down to the small, inaccurate, couple of sentences stated in this article.

As an aside, years ago my dad used to take me dove hunting around a cemetery where all of our relatives were buried. It was way out of town then. We'd usually stop by the family graves on such outings. About five years ago I was in the area and thought to stop in the cemetery only to find that it no longer exists. The area is now covered in apartments and condo's. I thought at the time that some day I'd have to ask to where the cemetery had been moved.

I know VML likes stories like this, but the story is probably much longer and more detailed than the story related here. I'm sure the real story is much less dramatic and actually filled with well meaning people, following well established customs and laws, trying to reach well meaning compromises in order to facilitate the use of resources that are necessary.

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 11:10:18 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Dont look at me I am a little bored is all
I live there are literally hundreds of oil and gas pipelines underground No one above do not blether pish

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 11:12:12 AM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The Dakota Access Pipeline is a massive 1,172-mile-long pipeline being constructed by Energy Transfer Partners. It will cut through North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa and Illinois. This pipeline, owned by oilman Kelcy Warren, crosses 200 rivers and countless farms, and it cuts through the ancestral lands and burial grounds of the tribe.
Well it doesn't cut across their reservation, so their "ancestral lands and burial grounds" must be somewhere else on lands belonging to someone else.

quote:

The pipeline risks economic and environmental disaster. The corporation plans to bury its oil pipeline under the Missouri, beneath the Lakota people’s main source of water for drinking, bathing, irrigation, fishing and recreation. As a Lakota phrase says, water is life — and one rupture could be ruinous.[/color] SOURCE
There are already 8 pipelines under the Missouri - why is this one any different?



I've participated in several projects in which Native People's had burial grounds. In a couple of the projects, the work was actually on the reservation expanding the Indian casinos. There never seemed to be a problem with those jobs. But, in others the Native burial sites were on other land not constituting Reservation. In each of those the Natives had customs, to which if you followed them scrupulously, your project would also go forward with little problem. I'll bet you a dime to a donut this project spent years to diminish the impacts to the tribes before the project was ever given clearance. But, that part is being left out of this "story" being told.

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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 11:22:30 AM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Well it doesn't cut across their reservation, so their "ancestral lands and burial grounds" must be somewhere else on lands belonging to someone else.

Ownership of the land north of the Reservation is in dispute. The Lakota tribe claims it was taken as a result of a broken treaty.

The Missouri is a lengthy river. How many of those eight pipelines you speak of endanger Native drinking water?

The Environmental Impact Report for this project would have spent years addressing that issue and would not have been approved if what you are saying was anywhere near likely. After the EIR was approved there is still time to file lawsuits if there was still disagreement well before the project was given a go ahead. Surely, you can obtain all of the records for that in order to support your position should you want to do anything but tell an emotional story. It's all public record. Salon should have done research and listed some of that data if it wanted to be taken seriously as a real news paper.

I haven't read the data. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong because I haven't read the information myself. But, I will tell you that the likelihood of this story being anything other than a racist fairy tale is small, in my opinion.

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 11:33:33 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

I know VML likes stories like this, but the story is probably much longer and more detailed than the story related here. I'm sure the real story is much less dramatic and actually filled with well meaning people, following well established customs and laws, trying to reach well meaning compromises in order to facilitate the use of resources that are necessary.

Well, N, you may be right. We shall see. It has been reported today that the Feds are intent on moving the protesters and demolishing (gently I hope) their tent city. Stay tuned.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Nnanji)
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RE: The Sioux Battle Big Oil - 11/26/2016 12:30:35 PM   
WickedsDesire


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am i getting my cock sucked or not?

(in reply to vincentML)
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