'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'?

'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/3/2016 3:52:40 PM)
Over here in Britain, I think 'Father Christmas' was more common, at least when I was a kid. Even now, I'm more likely to refer to him as 'Father Christmas' rather than 'Santa', because the latter feels like it came from TV and the cinema. Besides, Father Christmas isn't quite so chubby and so much of a laugher. He's still cheerful and laughs a lot, but is more dignified and more mysterious. Somewhat more of a figure of awe, in fact. Do other English-speaking countries still have 'Father Christmas' - or is he 'Santa' across North America, NZ, Oz, etc? Was he ever Father Christmas elsewhere?

jlf1961 -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/3/2016 5:23:07 PM)
Well Santa Claus is a derivative of Saint Nicholas (the patron saint of prostitutes who also gave gifts to poor children) Where as Father Christmas is just a Anglican name for the same patron saint of hookers. And none of the depictions of the guy come close to what Saint Nicholas looked like, they are more akin to a couple of the Germanic Pagan winter gods (who's traditions gave us the Christmas tree, which the pagans in Germany would tie virgins to and burn to hasten the end of winter.) Add to that that the 25th of December was originally a high feast to the Roman Sun God Sol Evictus, and become the day to celebrate the birth of Christ after Emperor Constantine ordered it. Lets face it, shepherds would not have their flocks in the fields at night this time of year.... There is a historical census recorded during the time of Quirinius. However, that census and no other Roman census ever required anyone to return to their ancestral homes. If you think about it, why would anyone care where your ancestors lived 1000 years ago? Not to mention that when you take every part of the Biblical Christmas story, the tax of Ceaser, the reign of Harod, not one event actually happened at the same time. Matthew claims Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod. Luke claims Jesus was born while Quirinius was governor of Assyria. However, Herod died 10 years before Quirinius became governor. Either Matthew or Luke is wrong on this issue, or they are both wrong. Only one the is certain: the Bible contains an error regarding the year Jesus was born. Matthew claims Herod killed all boys near Bethlehem who were 2 or under. No other gospel makes this claim. There is no evidence outside the Bible of any atrocity like this. Historians recorded many things about Herod. We know he was born around 74 BC, that he died in 4 BC, and that he expanded the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem (destroyed in 70 AD but 4 walls, including the famous wailing wall, exit today). It is recorded that he improved water sources, built water supplies, built Massada and Herodium, leased copper mines, killed his wife and two sons, and did much else. The massacre of the innocents is missing from any historical record. There are many amazing stories in the bible that are not recorded in historical records. So, bottom line is that Santa Clause was some guy in Turkey who helped out hookers, gave a few gifts to the poor, and never concentrated on kids in general. Christ was not born in December. And the whole Christmas feast is nothing more than a Christianized reason to eat a bunch of food and get drunk as lords and give gifts to people, who the rest of the year are ignored. So, in reality what people should do is go out and find some hooker and give her (or him) a ton of cash, get a blow job in the process, and then go get drunk. Or forget the hookers, get drunk on 1 December and stay that way until spring. Merry Fucking Christmas....

Wayward5oul -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/3/2016 5:52:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Well Santa Claus is a derivative of Saint Nicholas (the patron saint of prostitutes who also gave gifts to poor children) Where as Father Christmas is just a Anglican name for the same patron saint of hookers. So that's where the naughty list comes from...it all becomes clear now.

Lucylastic -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/3/2016 9:09:29 PM)
Father christmas until my kids went to school. Then he became santa... "Old St Nick"..has been used often. for various reasons

Kaliko -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/4/2016 4:25:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Over here in Britain, I think 'Father Christmas' was more common, at least when I was a kid. Even now, I'm more likely to refer to him as 'Father Christmas' rather than 'Santa', because the latter feels like it came from TV and the cinema. Besides, Father Christmas isn't quite so chubby and so much of a laugher. He's still cheerful and laughs a lot, but is more dignified and more mysterious. Somewhat more of a figure of awe, in fact. Do other English-speaking countries still have 'Father Christmas' - or is he 'Santa' across North America, NZ, Oz, etc? Was he ever Father Christmas elsewhere? Only Santa for me, here in the U.S. Northeast. Never, ever Father Christmas. I've only heard of Father Christmas, maybe in a song here and there. Obviously Father Christmas' PR people don't measure up to Santa's. What I want to know about is this ridiculously creepy Elf on a Shelf thing. Do you have that in other countries? Because it is disturbing. Honestly, I think we're regressing over here. (Insert Trump reference here.)

kiwisub22 -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/4/2016 8:19:48 AM)
Grew up in New Zealand with Father Christmas. Don't remember when I first heard Santa Claus - might have been a coke advert.

DesFIP -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/4/2016 8:54:46 AM)
Actually temps in the valleys near Jerusalem run about what they do in Southern Georgia/northern Florida, which is warm enough for stock to be out overnight. Jerusalem proper is nearly 3,000 feet above sea level and thus much colder. But you would graze animals in the valleys, not at the top of the mountain.

Wayward5oul -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/4/2016 9:53:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Over here in Britain, I think 'Father Christmas' was more common, at least when I was a kid. Even now, I'm more likely to refer to him as 'Father Christmas' rather than 'Santa', because the latter feels like it came from TV and the cinema. Besides, Father Christmas isn't quite so chubby and so much of a laugher. He's still cheerful and laughs a lot, but is more dignified and more mysterious. Somewhat more of a figure of awe, in fact. Do other English-speaking countries still have 'Father Christmas' - or is he 'Santa' across North America, NZ, Oz, etc? Was he ever Father Christmas elsewhere? Only Santa for me, here in the U.S. Northeast. Never, ever Father Christmas. I've only heard of Father Christmas, maybe in a song here and there. Obviously Father Christmas' PR people don't measure up to Santa's. What I want to know about is this ridiculously creepy Elf on a Shelf thing. Do you have that in other countries? Because it is disturbing. Honestly, I think we're regressing over here. (Insert Trump reference here.) Same here. Grew up in the Southeast and Southwest. Always Santa. Familiar with the other incarnations due to music and such, but they were never a part of our own celebrations or anyone we knew or anything in the stores or on TV. I was pressured into the whole Elf on a shelf thing thing a few years ago when all my kid's friends' mothers adopted it and my kid felt left out. I don't know where the hell it came from, but I figured if I had to do it I was gonna have fun with it. So I do things like duct tape him to the wall and have the nutcracker soldiers stick their swords into him, or other sick shit like that. My kid loves it. He knows it fake and he loves going to school and when all other kids talk about the cute things their elf did, he likes to add his twisted spin in.

PeonForHer -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/4/2016 9:57:14 AM)
FR First I've heard of this 'Elf on a Shelf'. Interesting.

Lucylastic -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/4/2016 9:57:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Actually temps in the valleys near Jerusalem run about what they do in Southern Georgia/northern Florida, which is warm enough for stock to be out overnight. Jerusalem proper is nearly 3,000 feet above sea level and thus much colder. But you would graze animals in the valleys, not at the top of the mountain. thank you for that:)

Lucylastic -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/4/2016 10:42:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub22 Grew up in New Zealand with Father Christmas. Don't remember when I first heard Santa Claus - might have been a coke advert. I think that had a lot to do with the popularity of Rockwell and Coke... Yep Father Christmas is probably colonial cultural cross over:) The UK is small but its reach was large

Wayward5oul -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/4/2016 11:08:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub22 Grew up in New Zealand with Father Christmas. Don't remember when I first heard Santa Claus - might have been a coke advert. I think that had a lot to do with the popularity of Rockwell and Coke... Yep Father Christmas is probably colonial cultural cross over:) The UK is small but its reach was large I haven't factchecked it but I've always had the idea that the image of the Santa I grew up with was created by Coke for their advertising.

PeonForHer -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/4/2016 11:12:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub22 Grew up in New Zealand with Father Christmas. Don't remember when I first heard Santa Claus - might have been a coke advert. I think that had a lot to do with the popularity of Rockwell and Coke... Yep Father Christmas is probably colonial cultural cross over:) The UK is small but its reach was large I haven't factchecked it but I've always had the idea that the image of the Santa I grew up with was created by Coke for their advertising. Apparently, his costume had most popularly been red before the Coke campaign, though other colours (eg all-white or green) were also common. After it, red with white trim swept away the competition.

Wayward5oul -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/4/2016 11:19:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub22 Grew up in New Zealand with Father Christmas. Don't remember when I first heard Santa Claus - might have been a coke advert. I think that had a lot to do with the popularity of Rockwell and Coke... Yep Father Christmas is probably colonial cultural cross over:) The UK is small but its reach was large I haven't factchecked it but I've always had the idea that the image of the Santa I grew up with was created by Coke for their advertising. Apparently, his costume had most popularly been red before the Coke campaign, though other colours (eg all-white or green) were also common. After it, red with white trim swept away the competition. Now looking around my living room, I realize that...I collect angel, snowman, nutcracker, and santa figurines that I put out for the holiday season. But I have more santas than anything, and while there are a few of the red and white fur trimmed suits in there, there are far more Father Christmas style santas. I never noticed that apparently I have a preference for the Father Christmas look, lol.

jlf1961 -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/5/2016 3:11:18 PM)
Let me point out something: We are discussing a strange immortal who spends 364 days a year spying on people (mostly children) 24/7 watching everything they do from behavior to going to the bathroom and taking baths and showers. Not to mention that we have no clue as to if he pays his elves a fair living wage, and does not require other 'services' from them for whatever food and shelter he may provide. As far as the sleigh goes, does it meet international safety and emission standards for an aircraft? Lets face it, reindeer (like cattle) produce a lot of methane, and if they are the power source for said vehicle, then whatever is coming out of their asses has got to be powerful and most likely toxic, therefore contributing to the greenhouse build up problem. And how many laws in every country is he violating with his round the clock surveillance? Face it, if anyone of the members of these boards (as well as any one in the general public) were to perform these same acts and were caught, there would be multiple life sentences in every country on the planet (probably a few death sentences as well.) So it is my contention that the commercialized Christmas season is perpetuating the criminal enterprise of the largest (not to mention longest lasting) criminal organization on the planet.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/5/2016 3:30:05 PM)
I don't know, I just call him "That disgusting marketing ploy".

Wayward5oul -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/5/2016 3:35:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Let me point out something: We are discussing a strange immortal who spends 364 days a year spying on people (mostly children) 24/7 watching everything they do from behavior to going to the bathroom and taking baths and showers. Not to mention that we have no clue as to if he pays his elves a fair living wage, and does not require other 'services' from them for whatever food and shelter he may provide. As far as the sleigh goes, does it meet international safety and emission standards for an aircraft? Lets face it, reindeer (like cattle) produce a lot of methane, and if they are the power source for said vehicle, then whatever is coming out of their asses has got to be powerful and most likely toxic, therefore contributing to the greenhouse build up problem. And how many laws in every country is he violating with his round the clock surveillance? Face it, if anyone of the members of these boards (as well as any one in the general public) were to perform these same acts and were caught, there would be multiple life sentences in every country on the planet (probably a few death sentences as well.) So it is my contention that the commercialized Christmas season is perpetuating the criminal enterprise of the largest (not to mention longest lasting) criminal organization on the planet. Hey, he leaves presents and is gone before I even wake up. I don't have to cook him breakfast or anything. In fact, best case scenario, I don't even know he is ever there. Sounds like a dream arrangement to me.

WhoreMods -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/6/2016 3:59:35 AM)
In fact, the alleged Saint Nicholas does have a connection with kids in that one of the miracles attributed to him is resurrecting a group of three young boys who'd been slaughtered by an innkeeper to provide his guests with cheap meat. He's seen as a protector of young children, and boys in particular, over that one. As for your other point, this is Neil Gaiman's line, originally written for his Christmas cards one year: quote: Nicholas Was... older than sin, and his beard could grow no whiter. He wanted to die. The dwarfish natives of the Arctic caverns did not speak his language, but conversed in their own, twittering tongue, conducted incomprehensible rituals, when they were not actually working in the factories. Once every year they forced him, sobbing and protesting, into Endless Night. During the journey he would stand near every child in the world, leave one of the dwarves' invisible gifts by its bedside. The children slept, frozen into time. He envied Prometheus and Loki, Sisyphus and Judas. His punishment was harsher. Ho. Ho. Ho.

blnymph -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/6/2016 4:36:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub22 Grew up in New Zealand with Father Christmas. Don't remember when I first heard Santa Claus - might have been a coke advert. I think that had a lot to do with the popularity of Rockwell and Coke... Yep Father Christmas is probably colonial cultural cross over:) The UK is small but its reach was large I haven't factchecked it but I've always had the idea that the image of the Santa I grew up with was created by Coke for their advertising. St Nicolas was and is dressed as a bishop, he was bishop of Myra (now Demre in Turkey), with a bishop's staff, a mitre, and a cloak. Colour of the cloak varies, either white and gold or red and white, depending on whether it represents the ceremonial cloak of a bishop or of the priest at mass. The "Father Christmas" pattern was a secular copy from Coke advertising.

WhoreMods -> RE: 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'? (12/6/2016 5:04:42 AM)
Actually, it's the red and white colour scheme and the curvaceous figure that were fixed by Sundbloom's coke advertising. Earlier representations, he'd be dressed in all sorts of stuff (often a Bishop, as you say, but also often in fur trimmed robes for some reason) and was often drawn as a skinny type.

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