DAPL will not go thru, for now. (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/4/2016 9:06:57 PM)

From Politico.
Obama administration blocks Dakota pipeline, angering Trump allies
The decision, a clear victory for the protesters, is likely to be reversed by the Trump administration.
By ERIC WOLFF 12/04/16 05:41 PM EST Updated 12/04/16 07:50 PM EST
More info at the link http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/us-army-corps-blocks-dakota-access-pipeline-232172


The outgoing Obama Administration delivered one more gift to green groups on Sunday when the Army Corps of Engineers blocked construction of a disputed segment of the Dakota Access Pipeline — but the decision is likely to be reversed when President-elect Donald Trump takes office next month.





In the bitter political battle over energy and natural resources, Dakota Access has become a successor to the Keystone XL pipeline, which President Barack Obama thwarted — and, like its predecessor, is a flashpoint for green groups who oppose fossil fuel infrastructure projects in the name of combating climate change. But Dakota Access is as much a symbol for Republicans bent on promoting fossil fuel interests and undoing much of what they see as the Obama administration's regulatory overreach.

After the U.S. Army Corps' announcement on Sunday, Rep. Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.) — an early Trump supporter and a contender to be named Energy secretary — issued a blistering statement that called Obama "lawless" and all but promised that Trump would ride into Washington next month and toss the paper on which the decision was written into the Potomac River.

“I hoped even a lawless president wouldn’t continue to ignore the rule of law," Cramer said in a statement. "In my conversation with Assistant Secretary of the Army Jo-Ellen Darcy today, she was unable to give any legal reasons for the decision and could not answer any questions about rerouting the pipeline.

"I’m encouraged we will restore law and order next month, when we get a President who will not thumb his nose at the rule of law," Cramer added.

Opposition to Dakota Access has been led by the Standing Rock Sioux tribe, which charges that the North-Dakota-to-Illinois pipeline could contaminate its water supply. The tribe's land ends about half a mile from the disputed part of the route. The pipeline, which had been approved by the Army Corps, is over 70 percent complete, but the fight against it has focused on a federal easement needed to allow the pipe to run beneath Lake Oahe, in central North Dakota.



Personally Im happy for now, sue me.
Of course as soon as trumps in...his conflict of interest should prove interesting to ignore.
Edited for formatting





ChrchofDrk -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/4/2016 9:20:13 PM)

and this is a problem for you why ... Do you even give a fuck about the people on the Standing Rock? Or is the pipeline more important than peoples lives? Reroute it. There's no reason why it must cross there except that that's what was planned. If you look at the map it didn't even need to go under the river. But the dumbass's did it anyway. Why take the risk? Other than to piss off some more indians that the country has been shitting on from day one. Thanks for nothin you republican fuck




Lucylastic -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/4/2016 9:30:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrchofDrk

and this is a problem for you why ... Do you even give a fuck about the people on the Standing Rock? Or is the pipeline more important than peoples lives? Reroute it. There's no reason why it must cross there except that that's what was planned. If you look at the map it didn't even need to go under the river. But the dumbass's did it anyway. Why take the risk? Other than to piss off some more indians that the country has been shitting on from day one. Thanks for nothin you republican fuck



erm
republican?
since when?
I will respond to the rest of your post after asking you to re read it from a liberal pinko commie treehugger socialist baby killer "fucks" point of view





Curmudgeonly1 -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/4/2016 9:33:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrchofDrk
Or is the pipeline more important than peoples lives?


Kin eye git sum uv wut yer schmokin'?

Must be sum pritee strong kinnikinnick.

[sm=alien.gif]




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/4/2016 10:29:47 PM)

Well that's a good thing, too bad he didn't do it sooner.




Lucylastic -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/4/2016 10:31:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Well that's a good thing, too bad he didn't do it sooner.

Absolutely.




DaddySatyr -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/4/2016 11:21:12 PM)


Certainly, I'm no engineer, but the only possible reason I can see for putting a pipeline under a body of water is for aesthetics?

I'm at a loss to understand any other reason especially when one takes into account that it would probably be "safer" - if the pipeline must cross the water to have it above the water so that leaks can be detected a little easier? Why have the pipeline under the water where an undetected leak could seep into the ground and contaminate the water, that way?

That to the side, it doesn't seem like that big a deal to honor the request of a sovereign nation that we not trespass on their land. I firmly believe that this country must become energy independent, but doing so by invading (and occupying) a sovereign nation is not the way to do it.



Michael




bounty44 -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 5:59:15 AM)

"White House (not the Army) halts Dakota Access Pipeline work yet again"

quote:

Remind me again… how many more days is it until this administration is finally gone?

Throwing yet another wrench into what has long since been settled law in the courts, the Army Corps of Engineers (CoE) issued another conflicting announcement this weekend in which they claimed that an easement for the Dakota Access Pipeline to go under Lake Oahe would not be granted. This, of course, had the professional protesters in the area celebrating and the company building the project shaking their heads in disbelief. (CNN))

The Army will not approve an easement that would allow the proposed Dakota Access Pipeline to cross under Lake Oahe in North Dakota, the Army’s assistant secretary for civil works announced Sunday.

Jo-Ellen Darcy said in a press release she based her decision on a need to explore alternate routes for the Dakota Access Pipeline crossing. It was announced on November 14, 2016 that her office was delaying the decision on the easement to allow for discussions with the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, whose reservation lies 0.5 miles south of the proposed crossing.

As NBC News was reporting yesterday, both Energy Transfer Partners (the owners of the project) and both of the state’s senators called foul and said that these delays and harassment would end once Obama leaves office.

Energy Transfer Partners, the company behind the project, denounced the decision Sunday night as “a purely political action.”

“The White House’s directive today to the Corps for further delay is just the latest in a series of overt and transparent political actions by an administration which has abandoned the rule of law in favor of currying favor with a narrow and extreme political constituency,” it said in a statement…

Sen. John Hoeven, R-North Dakota, said the decision ”violates the rule of law and fails to resolve the issue. Instead, it passes the decision off to the next administration, which has already indicated it will approve the easement, and in the meantime perpetuates a difficult situation for North Dakotans.”

Just to be clear, this obviously wasn’t a move which was made in a vacuum by the CoE. This came straight from the White House with the backing of the Justice Department. It was over a month ago when the Army began making noises about “looking at an alternate route” in response to the protests. But keep in mind that the current route is the one which the Army already approved and it was that approval which formed the basis for the state Public Service Commission’s decision to provide final approval. That approval was twice challenged in court and upheld both times.

The Institute for Energy Research has been following the legal aspects of this case with regular updates and last night they issued the following statement.

“The Obama administration’s decision to strong-arm the Army Corps of Engineers is a violation of the rule of law that will chill investment in safe energy infrastructure. Much worse, it will unnecessarily escalate the tense situation on the ground between law enforcement and the protestors. It is unfortunate that in the sunset of his presidency, Obama chose to inflame rather than heal with this symbolic, but short-lived decision.”

“Symbolic but short lived” is the key takeaway here. This wasn’t a decision based in engineering, the law or science. It was a political move in which the Army Corps of Engineers had their arms twisted by the White House. But this plan has already been upheld in court and there is virtually no doubt that the easement will be granted shortly after Trump takes office. This move represents yet another pointless fit of pique by Barack Obama as he plays politics with the job market on his way out the door.


http://hotair.com/archives/2016/12/05/white-house-not-the-army-halts-dakota-access-pipeline-work-yet-again/




Musicmystery -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 6:21:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrchofDrk

and this is a problem for you why ... Do you even give a fuck about the people on the Standing Rock? Or is the pipeline more important than peoples lives? Reroute it. There's no reason why it must cross there except that that's what was planned. If you look at the map it didn't even need to go under the river. But the dumbass's did it anyway. Why take the risk? Other than to piss off some more indians that the country has been shitting on from day one. Thanks for nothin you republican fuck

It's not even what was planned -- the "good" people of Bismarck threw a fuss when the line went through their land, so they got it re-routed through the reservation -- then acted befuddled when the Native Americans didn't want their water poisoned either (nor sacred sites destroyed).




Musicmystery -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 6:22:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Certainly, I'm no engineer, but the only possible reason I can see for putting a pipeline under a body of water is for aesthetics?

I'm at a loss to understand any other reason especially when one takes into account that it would probably be "safer" - if the pipeline must cross the water to have it above the water so that leaks can be detected a little easier? Why have the pipeline under the water where an undetected leak could seep into the ground and contaminate the water, that way?

That to the side, it doesn't seem like that big a deal to honor the request of a sovereign nation that we not trespass on their land. I firmly believe that this country must become energy independent, but doing so by invading (and occupying) a sovereign nation is not the way to do it.



Michael


Agreed.

There are a lot of ways this can go without sticking it to the reservation.




vincentML -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 7:48:53 AM)

quote:

I'm at a loss to understand any other reason especially when one takes into account that it would probably be "safer" - if the pipeline must cross the water to have it above the water so that leaks can be detected a little easier? Why have the pipeline under the water where an undetected leak could seep into the ground and contaminate the water, that way?

Sixteen thousand barrels of oil per minute! That pipeline should be nowhere near drinking water.




RottenJohnny -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 10:38:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Certainly, I'm no engineer, but the only possible reason I can see for putting a pipeline under a body of water is for aesthetics?

I'm at a loss to understand any other reason especially when one takes into account that it would probably be "safer" - if the pipeline must cross the water to have it above the water so that leaks can be detected a little easier? Why have the pipeline under the water where an undetected leak could seep into the ground and contaminate the water, that way?

That to the side, it doesn't seem like that big a deal to honor the request of a sovereign nation that we not trespass on their land. I firmly believe that this country must become energy independent, but doing so by invading (and occupying) a sovereign nation is not the way to do it.

Michael


The reason a pipeline can end up going under a body of water is mostly because of the "shortest distance between two points" concept. The more direct the pipeline path, the shorter it is. The shorter it is, the less likely for leaking and the cheaper the cost. Also, pipelines are inspected from the inside using a large electronic "pig" sent through the pipe. If the pipe is full of turns, the pig can't go through the line.

If a pipeline does leak, it's better for it to leak underground where the pressure of the ground works against the pressure in the pipe and the dirt helps capture the oil instead of having it spill on top of flowing water where it could easily spread over a greater area. A leak would actually have to be pretty severe in order for it to work it's way up into a lake.

When you do have a pipeline above ground, it's going to be double-wall pipe which is nearly an inch thick of high-quality, hardened steel. Even if you shot it with a high-powered rifle, you probably couldn't penetrate it without using armor piercing rounds. The reason some pipelines are built above ground is usually because the terrain makes it too expensive to route underground. Horizontally boring through a mile of solid granite can fuck up a lot of equipment.





mnottertail -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 10:42:40 AM)

FR.

violates the rule of law, my ass.




Musicmystery -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 11:18:42 AM)

Well, while Michael may not be an engineer, as he says, I'm pretty sure the Army Corps of Engineers ARE engineers, and might be better at this than a kinkster on the Internet behind a screen name.




kdsub -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 12:12:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Certainly, I'm no engineer, but the only possible reason I can see for putting a pipeline under a body of water is for aesthetics?

I'm at a loss to understand any other reason especially when one takes into account that it would probably be "safer" - if the pipeline must cross the water to have it above the water so that leaks can be detected a little easier? Why have the pipeline under the water where an undetected leak could seep into the ground and contaminate the water, that way?

That to the side, it doesn't seem like that big a deal to honor the request of a sovereign nation that we not trespass on their land. I firmly believe that this country must become energy independent, but doing so by invading (and occupying) a sovereign nation is not the way to do it.



Michael



Not that I'm necessarily for this pipeline but it will not be on a sovereign nations land... It is miles from the reservation on federal land.

Butch




RottenJohnny -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 12:27:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Well, while Michael may not be an engineer, as he says, I'm pretty sure the Army Corps of Engineers ARE engineers, and might be better at this than a kinkster on the Internet behind a screen name.

I can't speak to any reasoning the Army uses for any of it's decisions but my information comes from people I know who've been doing pipeline construction and inspection for 25 years. I'm pretty sure they know what they're talking about.

By the way...if I'm just a kinkster behind a screen name, what does that make you? And at least I have an engineering degree. What are your qualifications?





Musicmystery -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 1:20:44 PM)

I have:

- enough sense not to pretend I'm things I'm not
- enough sense not to believe others pretending they are
- enough sense to take a large team of very experienced engineers more seriously than an anonymous Internet friend

Go figure.




RottenJohnny -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 1:36:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I have:

- enough sense not to pretend I'm things I'm not
- enough sense not to believe others pretending they are
- enough sense to take a large team of very experienced engineers more seriously than an anonymous Internet friend

Go figure.

But apparently not enough sense to check any facts before running your cocksucker.

Go figure.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 1:47:04 PM)

quote:

people I know who've been doing pipeline construction and inspection for 25 years.

I didn't realize there was a big pipeline industry in Michigan.




mnottertail -> RE: DAPL will not go thru, for now. (12/5/2016 1:48:11 PM)

https://www.americanrivers.org/threats-solutions/energy-development/pipeline-failures/

Apparently an inch of pipeline wall can be broken, however. I checked.

I have friends and relatives on both sides of this pipeline. In the business, of being landowners there and pipeline construction guys.

The usual suspects are canting in the usual ways.




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