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Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 8:35:58 AM   
vincentML


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TOKYO (Reuters) - Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said on Monday he would visit Hawaii on Dec. 26 and 27 for his final summit meeting with outgoing U.S. President Barack Obama, and to remember the victims of Japan’s Pearl Harbor attack 75 years ago.

Abe will be the first incumbent Japanese Prime Minister to visit Pearl Harbor after Tokyo launched a surprise attack on the U.S. naval base in December 1941.

His visit follows a landmark trip to Hiroshima in May by Obama, the first sitting U.S. president to visit the Japanese city devastated by a U.S. nuclear attack in 1945.

“I’ll visit Pearl Harbor with President Obama. This will be a visit to console the souls of the victims,” Abe told reporters.

“I would like to show to the world the resolve that horrors of war should never be repeated.”

ARTICLE

Your thoughts on the linked article, on the "sneak" attack, on the subsequent history, and on the 9/11 attack in comparison. How long will "this date live in infamy?"

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.
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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 8:45:54 AM   
Musicmystery


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Trump's wanting to stop defending allies means Japan will need to end its peace-mandating constitution and re-develop a military.

The mess gathers.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/5/2016 8:46:36 AM >

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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 9:42:49 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said on Monday he would visit Hawaii on Dec. 26 and 27 for his final summit meeting with outgoing U.S. President Barack Obama, and to remember the victims of Japan’s Pearl Harbor attack 75 years ago.

Abe will be the first incumbent Japanese Prime Minister to visit Pearl Harbor after Tokyo launched a surprise attack on the U.S. naval base in December 1941.

His visit follows a landmark trip to Hiroshima in May by Obama, the first sitting U.S. president to visit the Japanese city devastated by a U.S. nuclear attack in 1945.

“I’ll visit Pearl Harbor with President Obama. This will be a visit to console the souls of the victims,” Abe told reporters.

“I would like to show to the world the resolve that horrors of war should never be repeated.”

ARTICLE

Your thoughts on the linked article, on the "sneak" attack, on the subsequent history, and on the 9/11 attack in comparison. How long will "this date live in infamy?"

I think everyone knows that it wasn't technically we were supposed to get about 30 minutes warning. As close as you can get to a sneak attack as you can get without actually attacking without warning. As for guilt, don't start something you can't finish. Or don't kick a sleeping grizzly.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 12/5/2016 9:47:19 AM >


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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 9:43:51 AM   
mnottertail


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Meat cartilage not at issue, here, I do not think.

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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 11:43:37 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Trump's wanting to stop defending allies means Japan will need to end its peace-mandating constitution and re-develop a military.

The mess gathers.

Yes. I understand the Japanese have purchased our F-35s.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 11:47:59 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think everyone knows that it wasn't technically we were supposed to get about 30 minutes warning. As close as you can get to a sneak attack as you can get without actually attacking without warning. As for guilt, don't start something you can't finish. Or don't kick a sleeping grizzly.

I believe the warning telegram from the War Department was sent by commercial route rather than thru secure military channels. Wot!

Other than your usual rage at Obama do you have any thoughts on this being a follow-up to our President's visit to Hiroshima?

< Message edited by vincentML -- 12/5/2016 11:50:08 AM >


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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 12:39:48 PM   
WickedsDesire


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Is it Japanese law/constitution they are not allowed to develop their military? Best they hurry up before China fills in the South China Sea, fills it with rubble and declares it part of its Empire.
Japanese have a lot to answer for times past in war regarding the allies/axis/own people the Chinese nation...and didn't Japan get all its oil from America - fuking doughnuts

Still the Americans did nuke em – fuking marvels.

What’s a sneak attack anyhoos? the Normandy landings fulfils that criteria – or it that simply good strategy.

Never read the article can you give a bit of the gist of it? och let me read....and I am sure America and UK sunk the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_RMS_Lusitania

Bit late for a visit I feel?

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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 4:47:22 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think everyone knows that it wasn't technically we were supposed to get about 30 minutes warning. As close as you can get to a sneak attack as you can get without actually attacking without warning. As for guilt, don't start something you can't finish. Or don't kick a sleeping grizzly.

I believe the warning telegram from the War Department was sent by commercial route rather than thru secure military channels. Wot!

Other than your usual rage at Obama do you have any thoughts on this being a follow-up to our President's visit to Hiroshima?

Actually the problem was that the message was in code and the Japanese embassy didn't have any typists who had the clearance to decode it. This meant that the Secretary of State had just finished reading the message when the Japanese asked to see him. Some of our guys who had to decode it could also type.

Both leaders are trying to make nice, big deal.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 6:19:30 PM   
BamaD


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When he went to Hiroshima did Obama apologize for dropping the bomb?
Is the Japanese leader going to apologize for the attack?
Going isn't a problem, but what did/will they do could be.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 6:24:29 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think everyone knows that it wasn't technically we were supposed to get about 30 minutes warning. As close as you can get to a sneak attack as you can get without actually attacking without warning. As for guilt, don't start something you can't finish. Or don't kick a sleeping grizzly.

I believe the warning telegram from the War Department was sent by commercial route rather than thru secure military channels. Wot!

Other than your usual rage at Obama do you have any thoughts on this being a follow-up to our President's visit to Hiroshima?

Actually the problem was that the message was in code and the Japanese embassy didn't have any typists who had the clearance to decode it. This meant that the Secretary of State had just finished reading the message when the Japanese asked to see him. Some of our guys who had to decode it could also type.

Both leaders are trying to make nice, big deal.

I was referring to the warning sent from the US War Department (we did not have a Defense Department at that time) to Hawaii Command.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 6:42:19 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think everyone knows that it wasn't technically we were supposed to get about 30 minutes warning. As close as you can get to a sneak attack as you can get without actually attacking without warning. As for guilt, don't start something you can't finish. Or don't kick a sleeping grizzly.

I believe the warning telegram from the War Department was sent by commercial route rather than thru secure military channels. Wot!

Other than your usual rage at Obama do you have any thoughts on this being a follow-up to our President's visit to Hiroshima?

Actually the problem was that the message was in code and the Japanese embassy didn't have any typists who had the clearance to decode it. This meant that the Secretary of State had just finished reading the message when the Japanese asked to see him. Some of our guys who had to decode it could also type.

Both leaders are trying to make nice, big deal.

I was referring to the warning sent from the US War Department (we did not have a Defense Department at that time) to Hawaii Command.

Yes, I know that predated the Defense Department.
And yes, Washington mishandled the warnings.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 6:49:32 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Is it Japanese law/constitution they are not allowed to develop their military? Best they hurry up before China fills in the South China Sea, fills it with rubble and declares it part of its Empire.
Japanese have a lot to answer for times past in war regarding the allies/axis/own people the Chinese nation...and didn't Japan get all its oil from America - fuking doughnuts

Still the Americans did nuke em – fuking marvels.

What’s a sneak attack anyhoos? the Normandy landings fulfils that criteria – or it that simply good strategy.

Never read the article can you give a bit of the gist of it? och let me read....and I am sure America and UK sunk the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_RMS_Lusitania

Bit late for a visit I feel?


Japan is surely aware of China's emergence. Hardly a secret, hey?

The Japanese got most of their oil from America but a goodly portion came from the British or Dutch fields in Southeast Asia. Japan invaded China and inflicted serious horrors on Nanking (the capitol at the time I think) The US President cut off the flow of oil. Japan saw that as an act of war. Their Ambassadors were negotiating with our Secretary of State during late 1941. As I recall it the negotiations were not terminated when Pearl was attacked. That is why it was deemed a "sneak" attack. That same night the Japanese attacked Hong Kong, Shanghai, and the Philippines. Apparently, they were serious as fuck about their war business. Even Hitler was surprised by his ally's moves. It is reported he remarked "Oh Fuck" :0)

Truman succeeded to the Presidency when Roosevelt died in his fourth term; Truman had not been informed about the development of the Atomic Bomb. Surprise! He ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on advice that it would shorten the war by avoiding invasion of the Japanese mainland. Still very controversial.

Recent reports have it that the RMS Lusitania never sank but is still sailing distant sea lanes, tilting 27 degrees to starboard.

Hope that helps.



_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 6:51:11 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

When he went to Hiroshima did Obama apologize for dropping the bomb?
Is the Japanese leader going to apologize for the attack?
Going isn't a problem, but what did/will they do could be.

I doubt there are any apologies. Just a lot of "war is shite"

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 8:49:55 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

When he went to Hiroshima did Obama apologize for dropping the bomb?
Is the Japanese leader going to apologize for the attack?
Going isn't a problem, but what did/will they do could be.

I doubt there are any apologies. Just a lot of "war is shite"

If so why should anyone care either way?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 8:51:07 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

When he went to Hiroshima did Obama apologize for dropping the bomb?
Is the Japanese leader going to apologize for the attack?
Going isn't a problem, but what did/will they do could be.

I doubt there are any apologies. Just a lot of "war is shite"


If there were no apologies why should anyone care either way?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 9:01:57 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Is it Japanese law/constitution they are not allowed to develop their military? Best they hurry up before China fills in the South China Sea, fills it with rubble and declares it part of its Empire.
Japanese have a lot to answer for times past in war regarding the allies/axis/own people the Chinese nation...and didn't Japan get all its oil from America - fuking doughnuts

Still the Americans did nuke em – fuking marvels.

What’s a sneak attack anyhoos? the Normandy landings fulfils that criteria – or it that simply good strategy.

Never read the article can you give a bit of the gist of it? och let me read....and I am sure America and UK sunk the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_RMS_Lusitania

Bit late for a visit I feel?


Sneak attack, one which precedes the declaration of war.
Normandy would be good tactics, convincing the Germans we were going to attack somewhere else. The Germans knew we were going to attack, they just thought it would be somewhere else.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/5/2016 9:59:01 PM   
Real0ne


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FR

Whatever you meaning all of you do dont correct the record in how the people got fucked, just keep spouting that same bullshit propaganda they told you in elementary school.



Additional intercepts were decoded by Washington, all within one day of their original transmission:

• November 5th: Tokyo notified its Washington ambassadors that November 25th was the deadline for an agreement with the U.S.

• November 11th: They were warned, "The situation is nearing a climax, and the time is getting short."

• November 16th: The deadline was pushed up to November 29th. "The deadline absolutely cannot be changed," the dispatch said. "After that, things are automatically going to happen."

• November 29th (the U.S. ultimatum had now been received): The ambassadors were told a rupture in negotiations was "inevitable," but that Japan's leaders "do not wish you to give the impression that negotiations are broken off."

• November 30th: Tokyo ordered its Berlin embassy to inform the Germans that "the breaking out of war may come quicker than anyone dreams."

• December 1st: The deadline was again moved ahead. "[T]o prevent the United States from becoming unduly suspicious, we have been advising the press and others that ... the negotiations are continuing."

• December 1st-2nd: The Japanese embassies in non-Axis nations around the world were directed to dispose of their secret documents and all but one copy of their codes. (This was for a reason easy to fathom — when war breaks out, the diplomatic offices of a hostile state lose their immunity and are normally overtaken. One copy of code was retained so that final instructions could be received, after which the last code copy would be destroyed.)

An additional warning came via the so-called "winds" message. A November 18th intercept indicated that, if a break in U.S. relations were forthcoming, Tokyo would issue a special radio warning. This would not be in the Purple code, as it was intended to reach consulates and lesser agencies of Japan not equipped with the code or one of its machines. The message, to be repeated three times during a weather report, was "Higashi no kaze ame," meaning "East wind, rain." "East wind" signified the United States; "rain" signified diplomatic split — in effect, war.

This prospective message was deemed so significant that U.S. radio monitors were constantly watching for it, and the Navy Department typed it up on special reminder cards. On December 4th, "Higashi no kaze ame" was indeed broadcast and picked up by Washington intelligence.

On three different occasions since 1894, Japan had made surprise attacks coinciding with breaks in diplomatic relations. This history was not lost on President Roosevelt. Secretary Stimson, describing FDR's White House conference of November 25th, noted: "The President said the Japanese were notorious for making an attack without warning and stated that we might be attacked, say next Monday, for example." Nor was it lost on Washington's senior military officers, all of them War College graduates.

As Robert Stinnett has revealed, Washington was not only deciphering Japanese diplomatic messages, but naval dispatches as well. President Roosevelt had access to these intercepts via his routing officer, Lieutenant Commander McCollum, who had authored the original eight-point plan of provocation to Japan. So much secrecy has surrounded these naval dispatches that their existence was not revealed during any of the ten Pearl Harbor investigations, even the mini-probe Congress conducted in 1995. Most of Stinnett's requests for documents concerning Pearl Harbor have been denied as still classified, even under the Freedom of Information Act. Sure because the fucking criminals fucked you and the fucking criminals are ABOVE THE LAW

It was long presumed that as the Japanese fleet approached Pearl Harbor, it maintained complete radio silence. This is untrue. The fleet barely observed discretion, let alone silence. Naval intelligence intercepted and translated numerous dispatches, some clearly revealing that Pearl Harbor had been targeted. The most significant was the following, sent by Admiral Yamamoto to the Japanese First Air Fleet on November 26, 1941:

The task force, keeping its movement strictly secret and maintaining close guard against submarines and aircraft, shall advance into Hawaiian waters, and upon the very opening of hostilities shall attack the main force of the United States fleet and deal it a mortal blow. The first air raid is planned for the dawn of x-day. Exact date to be given by later order.




The OP and the following posts dedicated to keeping america deaf dumb and more stooopid than they already are.

Conspiracy theorists are RIGHT AGAIN!




Got a few hours?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 12/5/2016 10:09:07 PM >


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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/6/2016 4:55:49 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

When he went to Hiroshima did Obama apologize for dropping the bomb?
Is the Japanese leader going to apologize for the attack?
Going isn't a problem, but what did/will they do could be.

I doubt there are any apologies. Just a lot of "war is shite"


If there were no apologies why should anyone care either way?

Because it is a sign that countries are facing their histories on this matter.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/6/2016 6:21:10 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

Conspiracy theorists are RIGHT AGAIN!

So, tell us, why were Adm. Kimmel and Gen. Short caught unawares?

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Pearl Harbor plus 75 - 12/6/2016 7:10:44 AM   
WhoreMods


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Actually, conspiracy theorists' bullshit is a big reason for a natural scepticism about governments and other institutionalised authorities getting dismissed out of hand by a lot of people.
One could almost wonder if there might not be a conspiracy to discredit anti-authoritarian attitudes by deliberately associating them with a load of twatwaffle about Her Maj being a reptoid, shellsuits curing cancer, L Ron Hubbard killing Kennedy or the holocaust and the moon landings both being faked by the same special effects company...

< Message edited by WhoreMods -- 12/6/2016 7:11:51 AM >


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