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RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/14/2016 5:45:14 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

The state IRS pays the Fed IRS (treasury) vince who do you think they pay? (Probly the comptroller that actually writes the checks.)

Not income taxes. They might pass along excise taxes at best.

quote:

It is my interpretation, you are correct, its also the interpreation of the california law review which I cited

You link a voluminous report and expect me to search it? You're daft, man.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/14/2016 6:04:08 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

and an ailing populace is good for business.

An ailing population is not even good for pharma and medical businesses if they cannot afford to pay. The poor spend on the margin so the redistribution of income creates local markets.

The top barrier to the payroll tax should be raised from $118,500 to $318,500 to solve any social security gap. And the individual earner should be taxed the full 12% eliminating the Business burden on that $200,000 tranche. The earner would hardly miss the $24,000 bite on his additional $200K, especially if Trump gets Congress to reduce the income tax rate by 12% on high bracket earners. It would be a net zero tax payment but a gain for the "trust" funds.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/14/2016 6:44:29 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

55 MPH a nutsucker invention...


since the bill was introduced by a democratic party congressman during a time when both houses were heavily democrat, you must be referring to them with your favorite moniker.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/93rd-congress/house-bill/11372

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/93rd_United_States_Congress

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/14/2016 6:47:26 AM   
bounty44


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Joined: 11/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
...The government is here to build a military, and to send welfare to the red states.


sorry comrade, ive shown you repeatedly that more "welfare" goes to "blue" states.

and as if that really matters since we're talking about individuals, not states.

would be nice if you showed some affinity for learning. unless of course, like in other things, you get to re-define "welfare" however you wish.

you are really bad at this.


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 12/14/2016 6:48:46 AM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/14/2016 9:51:39 AM   
mnottertail


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Oh, sorry communist dogshit44.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=4051

You are really really ineffective, if your job was propaganda you would be fired, you are absolutely pathetic.
If your field of study was propaganda you would be flunked and never let into school again.

The exectutive order came before the nutsucker nixon signing the bill he asked for (it was bipartisan and unpopular) in 74.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/14/2016 10:01:24 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
...The government is here to build a military, and to send welfare to the red states.


sorry comrade, ive shown you repeatedly that more "welfare" goes to "blue" states.

and as if that really matters since we're talking about individuals, not states.

would be nice if you showed some affinity for learning. unless of course, like in other things, you get to re-define "welfare" however you wish.

you are really bad at this.


You have repeatedly felchgobbled that horseshit, but never credibly cited, nor factual.

http://www.businessinsider.com/red-states-are-welfare-queens-2011-8
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/01/15/7-biggest-deadbeat-states-federal-tax-dollars-voted-republican.html
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/26/blog-posting/red-state-socialism-graphic-says-gop-leaning-state/
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning/2012/10/25/blue_state_red_face_guess_who_benefits_more_from_your_taxes.html

Sorry dogshit44. Your communism is out of the closet now, just waiting for the rest of the felchgobble to come out of the closet. We quit welfare to the red states, then we can consider individuals. Cuz you see, communist comrade dogshit44, states are made up of individuals.

What you are talking about is felchgobble, and believe me, you and your circlefelch coven are the only ones.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/14/2016 12:12:56 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

55 MPH a nutsucker invention, was done thru the ICC and not general welfare clause, different deal altogether.


Doesn't matter. They did not have the lawful authority, so they threatened to withold federal highway funds. Nevada pretty much told them to fuck off, issuing tickets for "wasting energy" when and if they felt like it, but there were points on your license or anything, pretty sure it was not even considered a moving violation.

Georgia is another state that simply doesn't seem to care how fast you drive in the highway. I was doing 75 and up comes cop cars, I thought, wonderful, a fucking ticket ten states away from home, but they just passed me by.

T^T

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/14/2016 12:16:36 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

and an ailing populace is good for business.

An ailing population is not even good for pharma and medical businesses if they cannot afford to pay. The poor spend on the margin so the redistribution of income creates local markets.

The top barrier to the payroll tax should be raised from $118,500 to $318,500 to solve any social security gap. And the individual earner should be taxed the full 12% eliminating the Business burden on that $200,000 tranche. The earner would hardly miss the $24,000 bite on his additional $200K, especially if Trump gets Congress to reduce the income tax rate by 12% on high bracket earners. It would be a net zero tax payment but a gain for the "trust" funds.


If they cannot pay the government pays.

As far as social security, why was it 16 % when I was paying ? Dammit. And anyone wants to bitch about the republicans, Obama signed for the reduction.

T^T

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/21/2016 6:15:00 AM   
Musicmystery


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The reduction was an early W initiative.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/21/2016 6:27:54 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

If they cannot pay the government pays.


Sounds like a plan

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/22/2016 1:27:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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So what do you folks think . . .

What would it take to get a president and a Congress interested in supporting the common good, rather than partisan interests?

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/22/2016 2:36:58 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So what do you folks think . . .

What would it take to get a president and a Congress interested in supporting the common good, rather than partisan interests?


A lobotomy.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/22/2016 3:05:13 PM   
Musicmystery


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Of the politicians or the voters?

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/22/2016 3:11:25 PM   
Wayward5oul


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Joined: 11/9/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Of the politicians or the voters?

We have to choose?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/22/2016 4:49:15 PM   
Musicmystery


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I'll put you down for "I don't know."

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/23/2016 12:54:26 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Democrats had to have their token female. Well that BACKFIRED ON THEM and now we got Trump.

I walked into this bar and the Man refused,
Said we don't serve strangers in blue suede shoes,

Gave me a smile that was sick and wet,
And I offered him one of my cigarettes,

He took it, afraid that he might appear rude,
Then proceeded to sell me some second class food,

From the gleaned cigarette, he took a long drag,
And said I think I'll pack my traveling bag,

I'm tired of cheating, and wasting my head,
On filling the bosses bags with bread,

You can take what you like, it won't hurt me,
Cause I'm just working for the company

T^T

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/23/2016 5:27:18 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
I want to get out in the sun and rain,
And feel the wind on my skin again,

The world is large and I got time yet,
And by the way thanks for that cigerette



< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 12/23/2016 5:28:27 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/23/2016 5:31:10 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

55 MPH a nutsucker invention, was done thru the ICC and not general welfare clause, different deal altogether.


Doesn't matter. They did not have the lawful authority, so they threatened to withold federal highway funds. Nevada pretty much told them to fuck off, issuing tickets for "wasting energy" when and if they felt like it, but there were points on your license or anything, pretty sure it was not even considered a moving violation.

Georgia is another state that simply doesn't seem to care how fast you drive in the highway. I was doing 75 and up comes cop cars, I thought, wonderful, a fucking ticket ten states away from home, but they just passed me by.

T^T

The checkbook has the effect of law. It may or may not be that they had lawful authority, since it is mostly in force today, my guess is that somebody (and that is a lot of sombodies) think they did and do.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/23/2016 9:19:53 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Democrats had to have their token female. Well that BACKFIRED ON THEM and now we got Trump.

I walked into this bar and the Man refused,
Said we don't serve strangers in blue suede shoes,

Gave me a smile that was sick and wet,
And I offered him one of my cigarettes,

He took it, afraid that he might appear rude,
Then proceeded to sell me some second class food,

From the gleaned cigarette, he took a long drag,
And said I think I'll pack my traveling bag,

I'm tired of cheating, and wasting my head,
On filling the bosses bags with bread,

You can take what you like, it won't hurt me,
Cause I'm just working for the company

T^T

Not Democrats -- the establishment at the top of the DNC.

Couldn't even listen to their own party members.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: To Provide For The General Welfare - 12/23/2016 5:27:46 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunDominant It has been urged and echoed, that the power “to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,’" amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction.
~ Federalist Papers, No. 41

Furthermore, the general welfare of the republic does not equate to the particular circumstances of select individuals.


But that's in fact how it has worked practice, especially in the last 30-35 years.

Whoever thinks that capital gains and interest income tax reductions benefiting highest wealth individuals far more than anyone else, and a mountain of tax loopholes, tax credits, tax break incentives, offshoring of profits, and myriad other tax avoidance stratagems isn't significantly a greater gift and support to -select individuals- written into law for that specific purpose than recipients of TANF and food cards ... is delusional.

The legal system allows CEOs of investment and depository banks and hedge fund managers and other financial entities to retain their bonuses and financial derivatives gains of $20 million to $3+ billion per individual (in one year), all at specifically targeted lower tax rates than a factory worker or insurance adjuster, as reward for wrecking the economy and destroying a good chunk of honestly earned if numerically unimpressive wealth of the middle class. The shareholders and investors have paid for the nickel and dime run of piddling fines and criminal and civil settlements (all tax deductible), but not enough to notice in the way of earnings statements or dividends, for the most part.

And then there's the productivity thing.

Increased productivity increases the value of a worker, and that's not 'theory,' microeconomics having little theory to it. It shows in the numbers, it's measurable. ("Consumer utility" being one of microeconomics' tepid ventures into theory, but even then, numbers to go with it.)

But workers have experienced only minuscule participation in that reward, by way of financial and economic and "activist investor" inducements, and yes, governmental incentives to corporations and wealthiest individuals -militating against that outcome-. For one thing, the federal minimum wage still being at $7.25/hr. is absurd beyond belief, even in the lowest COL/PPP states. In any case, real (inflation-adjusted) wages have barely held above flatline while increased productivity and corporate profits obtained thereby have done far better, top 1% individual earners having done quite well, and year-on-year increase in income of the top .1% has skyrocketed.

We have gross/total revenue and then we have net earnings after all costs and taxes, and there's a whole lot that goes on in between. Aside from whatever otherwise "organic" financial/economic situation, there are mountains of tax and regulatory laws in place to target 'select individuals' for garnering the greatest portion of wealth created by everyone else.

If you don't like the notion of "redistribution of wealth," then let's recognize that maybe we should quit voting for assholes who do everything possible to further the cause of -misdistribution/misdirection of wealth- in the first place.

Reversing the latter situation would prevent quite a large portion of the former, and diversion of wealth from the workers, the producers of wealth, being less ardently incentivized as by current legislation would be a start.


(in reply to SunDominant)
Profile   Post #: 40
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