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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 3:23:52 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

this commentary does a nice job too:

quote:


Ro 8:1-3
Heb 10:19-20
Eph 2:13
Ga 3:13
Ro 10:4
Ga 3:24-26


The authority being cited in the references above is Paul, not Christ, and a reasonable person could hardly be faulted for expecting people who are Christian to choose Christ as their guide. It is fairly clear what he wants from his followers, and equally clear that it isn't consonant with stoning people, etc. Accordingly, the Law to which he refers cannot be Leviticus, and there is no need to invoke the theological constructions of Paul to explain anything.

K.



much of Christianity finds its theological basis in the writings of the apostles, including paul.

and in these particular instances, I can see nothing in what the author of the commentary referenced in paul, that does not find its origins in the words of Christ as recorded in the gospel, and in keeping with his (Christ's) role as the fulfillment of old testament prophecy.


The actual apostles did not consider Paul to be an apostle.

(in reply to bounty44)
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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 3:47:53 PM   
bounty44


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theres nothing in scripture I am aware of that teaches such a thing.

if you have biblical evidence that takes into account the whole of the new testament, and what is meant by the term "apostle," you are invited to post it.


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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 4:00:16 PM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

theres nothing in scripture I am aware of that teaches such a thing.

if you have biblical evidence that takes into account the whole of the new testament, and what is meant by the term "apostle," you are invited to post it.



https://exodus2thekingdom.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/did-johns-epistle-identify-paul-as-a-false-prophet/




< Message edited by tamaka -- 12/15/2016 4:09:42 PM >

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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 4:06:37 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

theres nothing in scripture I am aware of that teaches such a thing.

if you have biblical evidence that takes into account the whole of the new testament, and what is meant by the term "apostle," you are invited to post it.



https://exodus2thekingdom.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/did-johns-epistle-identify-paul-as-a-false-prophet/:


Its a blog, with less than 1000 followers.
The initial link brings me to 'page not found'.
Have you read the other stuff on that site? Or was it the first thing to pop up on a google search?

>>>ok, i see you fixed the link.



< Message edited by Wayward5oul -- 12/15/2016 4:12:33 PM >

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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 4:10:40 PM   
tamaka


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Sorry i had the colon on the end which messed it up. Yes i read it. I edited and fixed the link.

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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 5:01:33 PM   
bounty44


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if you want to have an actual serious conversation about the information contained in that link, write me a private message and i'll take the time to address as many of those points as im able to, and that will be quite a lot.

in the meantime, let me leave you with this concerning it---its full of misused words and its a misrepresentation of what john is actually writing and what paul actually wrote and did. as such, it's allowed the author to make a ridiculous conjecture that has never been taught in my hearing or reading, which by the latter is implied, more or less all of mainstream Christianity.

and to that point---the church fathers and biblical scholars who have been responsible for giving us the bible, considered (and still consider) paul an apostle.

the guy who wrote that, and that particular "teaching" is so low on the radar screen that I cannot even find a formal church response to it.


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 12/15/2016 5:03:41 PM >

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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 5:23:42 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

But in my opinion, the teachings of Christ are not consonant with the barbarisms of Leviticus, or much of the rest of what "God" commands in the OT.

Totally with you on that!

_____________________________

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it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 5:24:43 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

if you want to have an actual serious conversation about the information contained in that link, write me a private message and i'll take the time to address as many of those points as im able to, and that will be quite a lot.

in the meantime, let me leave you with this concerning it---its full of misused words and its a misrepresentation of what john is actually writing and what paul actually wrote and did. as such, it's allowed the author to make a ridiculous conjecture that has never been taught in my hearing or reading, which by the latter is implied, more or less all of mainstream Christianity.

and to that point---the church fathers and biblical scholars who have been responsible for giving us the bible, considered (and still consider) paul an apostle.

the guy who wrote that, and that particular "teaching" is so low on the radar screen that I cannot even find a formal church response to it.


Bounty, you are being too generous. I checked the site out. I read the articles, including the one titled Fecal Matter and the Doctrine of Paul - seriously, fecal matter?

According to one of the followers, Catholics invented Islam. Because Paul.

Anyone who sees that site as anywhere close to credible - its unfathomable to me - but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 7:35:42 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

if you want to have an actual serious conversation about the information contained in that link, write me a private message and i'll take the time to address as many of those points as im able to, and that will be quite a lot.

in the meantime, let me leave you with this concerning it---its full of misused words and its a misrepresentation of what john is actually writing and what paul actually wrote and did. as such, it's allowed the author to make a ridiculous conjecture that has never been taught in my hearing or reading, which by the latter is implied, more or less all of mainstream Christianity.

and to that point---the church fathers and biblical scholars who have been responsible for giving us the bible, considered (and still consider) paul an apostle.

the guy who wrote that, and that particular "teaching" is so low on the radar screen that I cannot even find a formal church response to it.



Thanks for the offer but honestly i've been there/done that when it comes to all the religion stuff and found out that there's not much there for me personally. I figured out the Paul thing on my own... and it definitely was a paradigm shift and took a while to resolve it ... but i have and i've moved on.

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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 7:51:39 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

But in my opinion, the teachings of Christ are not consonant with the barbarisms of Leviticus, or much of the rest of what "God" commands in the OT.

Totally with you on that!

When I was a child in the 60s, we got the Catholic Digest in our home, and there was a cartoon, done shortly after Vatican II decided to eliminate the no meat on Fridays rule.

It showed a worried priest running into his Monsignor, clutching the report of the new rules, crying "What are we going to do with all those people we sent to hell for eating meat?!"

"Father," replied his calm superior, "What makes you think God does everything we tell him to?"

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/15/2016 7:52:17 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/15/2016 7:55:31 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
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I love it!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/16/2016 3:30:01 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
A lot of Sharia law is right out of the Biblical book of Leviticus and you happen to agree with that book.
Does that make you a Muslim?
The book of Leviticus details the Levitical laws which contain specific instructions to the priests (the tribe of Levi) and only apply to Israel. That is part of the covenant with the Jews.

The covenant with the gentiles commences during the New Testament through the crucifixion. Notwithstanding the injunctions of Jesus to existing Jews to keep the law (IE: their existing covenant), the covenant with the Gentiles is covered by the ten commandments and the sayings of Jesus himself. Gentiles are not required to observe the Levitical laws.


If it only applies to Levites, then why do so many Christians AND muslims quote and follow them?

How much whining and bleating did we hear from the right wingers quoting a cherrypicked part of the book to fight gay marriage.

GOD says that marriage is ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN.. (they didn't mention the other shit about slaves and polygamy and dead brothers and such.)

Follow the book with the talking snakes or don't.
Quit cherrypicking.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Moderate Muslim Country is Lynching a Christian! - 12/16/2016 9:44:07 PM   
longwayhome


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Joined: 1/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Greta, it's important for us in the West to tolerate this religion of intolerance. Indeed, Leftists seem to think we should just give the country away to them - because all white, male, heterosexual, Christian power is unearned.



I saw a news item (and someone else posted it on another thread) where a German politician is claiming that Sharia law is completely in keeping with German law.

My first thought was: "Maybe German law from 1939?"

It's amazing how we are allowing this wave of religious extremism to make war with us on legitimate battle fields while also allowing them a foothold into legitimate political process. It's like inviting Hirohito to address the congress in 1942. Insanity.


Michael



Told when it appeared first, again when you commented on the "another thread" and now here: No, German law is NOT "completely in keeping" with Muslim laws. The matter discussed is (international) family law about validity of marriages abroad, especially where there is no secular but only religious marriage. This deals with marriages in a number of Muslim countries as well as with for example the validity of USA religious marriages, in Germany.

You should learn to read contents, not only headlines.


This. Thank you blnymph.

Do people just have an internal rage machine which they then apply to reports to prove their already deeply held prejudices?

Despite all the moral panic, Sharia law is not superseding western European law. In the UK it is used as a form of non-legal mediation, mainly by women in marital disputes. Interestingly even Muslim women's organisations encourage women to enter into properly constituted legal UK marriages to ensure proper protection under the law so that they are not left only able to appeal to their local Imam for proper treatment. It is a cultural, not a legal issue.

There is no evidence of national law in western countries with a "Christian" or Enlightenment cultural heritage (cos let's face most aren't practising Christians) being overtaken by those aspects of law in some Muslim countries that most would find fearful.

Besides which what people would regard as the worst excess of law and punishment in places like Saudi Arabia are hardly what most Muslims would regard as modern Sharia, any more than Christians really want to see literal Old Testament justice as practised centuries ago translated into law. And the worst excesses of cultural practice in places such as Pakistan are extra-judicial and nothing to do with the "law", let alone Sharia.

None of this excuses human rights abuses in some Muslim countries, such as allegedly Indonesia in this case (any more than it does abuses in non Muslim countries) but the point is that, leaving aside Muslim majority countries like Turkey where a growing non-secularism is a real threat to national secular law, Sharia law is not coming to your local courts any time soon, nor is it seriously threatening your national legal system.

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