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unfatomable dedication - 12/19/2016 11:15:53 PM   
Edwird


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I have always taken the Karl Richter pipe organ rendition of the Bach Toccata and Fugue in D minor (Deutsche Grammophon) as the standard, being as that's what I listened to from an early age (thank you mom for the best classical music collection in the world).

But just listen to this, and tell me how this is not the most dedicated musician on her instrument in this time. You have NO IDEA how much dedication it takes to accomplish this phenomenal feat on her instrument.

The link to fantastic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPmKRtWta4E
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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 12:53:53 AM   
Edwird


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And as it stands, I actually do think that guys have a better voice in the arts to some degree, conjecture in that being their need or inclination in any case to advance evolution in moving beyond clubbing over the head as was supposedly prior the case ~500,000 years ago. But this couldn't have happened unless the ladies got a good sense of the arts themselves. It's all about convincing, though, and guys are more evolutionaryily advanced in that regard. But if one is not necessarily interested in being 'convinced,' there are other ways to artistic expression, even by guys.

So yeah, forget all that "how you gonna keep them down on the farm?" for the ladies, when it comes to artistic venture. It ain't happening. Sometimes, people of either gender just gotta SPEAK!

Witness;

Alb�niz

To me, music is about getting carried away, being taken to another place in space/time, somewhere else in this or another universe. So thank you Ana Vidovic for getting me as far away from this world as I can, for whatever brief period.

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 1:55:32 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Status: offline 		Well.... I listen to it - or at least the first 5 minutes of it.

Sorry. Just didn't like it.
I didn't feel any "warmth" from the player or the instrument.
Too clinical and cold.

And I actually liked the Skye version for getting the blood racing.
Those of purist thinking will say it was sacrilege, but I liked it.

Can't say I liked this one. It left me cold and unfeeling.


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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 8:37:26 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

And I actually liked the Skye version for getting the blood racing.

OK, I didn't really like either, but Edwird's is far better, by several orders of magnitude.

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 8:37:59 AM   
Edwird


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I assume you're talking about the Toccata and Fugue. We all have different tastes and ears, so your take is possibly understandable, if not musically valid. Some of us need more or less drama! (or added noise) than others in our music performance. I remember my classical guitar instructor saying to me "It's good to play with feeling, but as my [Spanish master] teacher said; 'Canta, no llora' (sing, don't cry)."

I thought her stretching of dynamics and tempo was just a tad overdrawn, if anything, but still she did it in such way that it wasn't difficult for me to get on board with it.

I couldn't find a version by Skye on the tube, but did find such by a band called Sky which involved a Les Paul guitar (yawn) and Fender Precision Bass through a SS amp (zzzzzz ... ). I still don't think it was 'sacrilege,' though. Toccata & Fugue seems to be one of those things that's anybody's game, there being a great variation of takes just on pipe organ alone. I have both the original Walter Carlos and later Wendy Carlos (same gal in both cases) versions on her Moog synthesizer, so it's not like I'm a stickler about keeping it to acoustic instruments. But to me, putting rock drums to a classical music piece is like pouring high fructose artificially flavored chocolate syrup on herb baked salmon and sauteed vegetables.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/20/2016 9:05:08 AM >

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 10:11:56 AM   
Edwird


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BTW, the title of post should have been "unfathomable," not "unfatomable."

As always, I am my own best unintentional comedian. Always playing to type with my tiping and renegade speling.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/20/2016 10:39:03 AM >

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 10:15:01 AM   
Edwird


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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 10:53:14 AM   
Edwird


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For the musically curious ...

The definitive modern rendition of this output from Bach in early days:

Johann Sebastian Bach: Toccata und Fuge d-moll, BWV 565, Karl Richter, Orgel. Deutsche Grammophon 1965 (recorded 1964).


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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 12:24:59 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Well.... I listen to it - or at least the first 5 minutes of it.

Sorry. Just didn't like it.
I didn't feel any "warmth" from the player or the instrument.
Too clinical and cold.

And I actually liked the Skye version for getting the blood racing.
Those of purist thinking will say it was sacrilege, but I liked it.

Can't say I liked this one. It left me cold and unfeeling.



I'd have to agree with that. I think the musician is amazingly skilled, and technically precise.

But I think this rendition really exposes the limitations of the instrument, as it's very cold, stark, and empty compared to a well-done rendition on piano by even an average player.



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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 1:08:21 PM   
Edwird


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Status: offline 		Oh good gosh, toccata and fugue on piano is the worst thing I've ever heard.

I do agree that the piece wasn't meant for harp at all, but at the same time I like musicians who are capable of tossing aside expectations and saying "fuckit, this is what I am going to do."

In my (not nearly humble) estimation, Wendy Carlos and even more, to a degree, Amy Turk, got away with venturing far from the original instrument in this great music, in their chosen interpretations.

I know that I have heard at least five different renditions on pipe organ that I would rate below the effort of Amy Turk on her harp, in an absolute sense.

I started with Karl Richter's version for a reason, to say that though I don't consider Amy Turk's version to be anything like a 'standard,' I nevertheless was just gobsmacked by what she accomplished, and yes, even well entertained all the while.





< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/20/2016 1:46:58 PM >

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 1:21:22 PM   
Edwird


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I know that it is completely unrealistic to expect anybody in this world to have any appreciation at all for dedication, or even the concept of it. Academia doesn't recognize it and certainly does everything to militate against it. Standard history books have no use for it, other than loud trumpets for dedication to crown and/or state.

I have worked with the best dance and musical artists in the world, and I can tell you that innate talent is only the start. Dedication almost (or sometimes completely) to point of mental instability is what makes the rest of us recognize them as 'stars.'






< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/20/2016 1:36:31 PM >

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 1:29:08 PM   
outlier


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Well.... I listen to it - or at least the first 5 minutes of it.

Sorry. Just didn't like it.
I didn't feel any "warmth" from the player or the instrument.
Too clinical and cold.

And I actually liked the Skye version for getting the blood racing.
Those of purist thinking will say it was sacrilege, but I liked it.

Can't say I liked this one. It left me cold and unfeeling.



I'd have to agree with that. I think the musician is amazingly skilled, and technically precise.

But I think this rendition really exposes the limitations of the instrument, as it's very cold, stark, and empty compared to a well-done rendition on piano by even an average player.





I have the opposite view. I do not have the best music reproduction
system in my office, but it is decent. I run my computer out to a
vintage Yamaha receiver and then use that to drive some small
bookshelf speakers (with no mods) and a subwoofer.

Through this system I heard dynamic range both in volume and
in tempo. I heard enough so that I have downloaded it and
will move it to my bigger system for a critical listen.

I can see where the harp can sound like you describe it but that
can be as much a limitation of your reproduction as it is the source.





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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 1:40:45 PM   
outlier


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Status: offline 		Edwird,

I also enjoyed the Asturias. But I think
I prefer the Parkening version. Once again
it is the technical virtuosity combined with
the feeling that keeps me returning to
Christopher Parkening.

But I do acknowledge her artistry so I will have
to take refuge in the old saying "de gustibus non
disputandum est." And I will seek her out to listen more.

Thank you for introducing me to these two talents.



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Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 2:06:14 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

I also enjoyed the Asturias. But I think
I prefer the Parkening version. Once again
it is the technical virtuosity combined with
the feeling that keeps me returning to
Christopher Parkening.

You guys sound like Dead Heads talking about their favourite taped shows.

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 2:16:15 PM   
Edwird


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Yes, Christopher Parkening is certainly fantastic. I have two of his records, one bought for me by mom. It still gripes me that out of all the many great live shows I worked in one capacity or another, he never came into it. I did have the pleasure of witnessing the Romeros, the two star sons Pepe and Angel, along with little brother Celin (himself excellent too) and Papa Celidonio. That was even better than the Guarneri Quartet, and here being a huge fan of them, too.

I know the audience was smaller (~650 or so) but it was sold out 2 months in advance, and if you do a youtube on the Beatles first US visit and their Washington DC show in particular, that's near what we heard at the end of the Romeros' performance. People went bat guano crazy, they were so good.

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 3:05:50 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

I also enjoyed the Asturias. But I think
I prefer the Parkening version. Once again
it is the technical virtuosity combined with
the feeling that keeps me returning to
Christopher Parkening.

You guys sound like Dead Heads talking about their favourite taped shows.


Well yes, you caught us. Assuming anybody today even knows that audio tape is.

But that's all gone, so this being Christmas, you can just wrap red cellophane around my head and I'll do the same around your butt and it's all good, and happy holidays.

Oh, but for the days.

The studio guys claim that Ampex 451 (456?) was the best tape formula for R&R, but it's hilarious now that there are digital 'plug-ins' to supposedly emulate every tape formula and every tape machine and a Fairchild compressor or a 4 track Ampex mastering machine. All that (the real thing) cost ~ $4,500 and $12,000, respectively, -in '60s money! Good gosh, no wonder they did away with analog.

I spent all this money on my mostly analog (w/tubes-'valve') system, but only sometimes listen to it. There is no substitute for the real thing, which tickets for is what I 'waste' a lot of money on, nowadays.




< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/20/2016 3:27:28 PM >

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 3:42:04 PM   
Edwird


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To point out ...

I got paid, in my job, to work with both the best artists in the world (most often in minor capacity) and Miss Bettsy's Dance School recital (as de facto stage manager while running tape machine and CD and LP, "this way, girls this way!") a week before or after.

You learn to recognize dedication when you see it.


< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/20/2016 3:56:14 PM >

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/20/2016 4:18:57 PM   
Edwird


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What irks me greatly is that there is some fuckhead on here who just does his bobblehead thing of "just WIN!", as if ...

As if learning how to run a delivery service is more -meaningful- to society than spending a lifetime learning to play a particular instrument and somehow finding a way to render -music- thereby.

You have no idea how difficult it is to attain full fluency in that arena.

(In honest and determined music or honest and determined dance, we just don't give a shit anymore, sorry folks, that's how it is.)



< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/20/2016 5:01:48 PM >

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/21/2016 8:25:27 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

You learn to recognize dedication when you see it.


Even if you are totally dedicated to a performance or an instrument, that doesn't make you great or even good.

It could be argued that many of the early rock bands were indeed totally dedicated.
But equally, not many made the grade or became famous for their performances except for a small cult following.
You can be the most dedicated person in the world and still sound like crap - staid and unfeeling even when a piece is rendered flawlessly.
A good comparison would be Data in a Star Trek episode: played violin flawlessly but had no nuances or inflections and while perfectly rendered, wasn't appreciated because it sounded 'flat' and stilted and quite frankly... boring and uninteresting.

The same with this young lady.
Beautifully talented and played a very difficult piece on her harp.
But, with the best will in the world, it was boring to my ears.
I like Toccata quite a lot; but she didn't inspire me one jot.

Here's someone who is absolutely dedicated to musical instruments he makes himself..
Not to everyone's taste but I thought his idea was good and he played well.
The world's biggest stringed instrument

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RE: unfatomable dedication - 12/21/2016 10:47:18 AM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
You learn to recognize dedication when you see it.

Even if you are totally dedicated to a performance or an instrument, that doesn't make you great or even good.


No it doesn't. But not every dedicated effort in life is a commercial venture. Nor even a success. I wasn't claiming such. I pointed out a resounding success in that endeavor, even if not recognized by deaf ears.

quote:

It could be argued that many of the early rock bands were indeed totally dedicated.
But equally, not many made the grade or became famous for their performances except for a small cult following.


Amy Turk is not a rock band or a pop group. Your measuring her against such seems to explain the issue here. My comment was about music for it's own sake, not how far off the couch I could be kicked by loud drums through loud speakers.

quote:

You can be the most dedicated person in the world and still sound like crap - staid and unfeeling even when a piece is rendered flawlessly.
A good comparison would be Data in a Star Trek episode: played violin flawlessly but had no nuances or inflections and while perfectly rendered, wasn't appreciated because it sounded 'flat' and stilted and quite frankly... boring and uninteresting.

The same with this young lady.
Beautifully talented and played a very difficult piece on her harp.
But, with the best will in the world, it was boring to my ears.
I like Toccata quite a lot; but she didn't inspire me one jot.


Yes, she didn't have rock&roll drums behind it. Understood.

We await your presentation or citation of Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Fawn, or Eric Satie's Trois Gymnopédies both with slamming kick drum and pounding snare drum to make it more 'inspiring' for you and your excellent sensibilities in these matters.







< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/21/2016 11:07:58 AM >

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