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RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 3:00:59 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

I think we should be selling them more air filtration systems than cars.

Maybe to China - they really need them.

Given that the orange gibbon looks like putting up trade barriers to China, I can't see them buying them.
Apart from which, they can probably make them cheaper than anything from the USA.


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 3:03:58 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

How do you figure they are counted differently?

The VDA reports that the USA, Russia and Brazil record light trucks in their 'car' sales.
This was noted in best-selling-cars.com with a note "*USA, Brazil and Russia include light vehicles (trucks)."

Seeing as the US has a predominately high proportion of light truck market vs cars (sedans/compacts etc) compared to other exporters, if you removed those light trucks from the export figures the US would be a lot lower in the table.


Why wouldn't you count them? They are automobiles. That we ship a lot of because apparently, there is a market for them.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 3:28:18 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

How do you figure they are counted differently?

The VDA reports that the USA, Russia and Brazil record light trucks in their 'car' sales.
This was noted in best-selling-cars.com with a note "*USA, Brazil and Russia include light vehicles (trucks)."

Seeing as the US has a predominately high proportion of light truck market vs cars (sedans/compacts etc) compared to other exporters, if you removed those light trucks from the export figures the US would be a lot lower in the table.


I know , you are going to deny this but when you were telling us that there was no place in the US where you could drive 50 mph that the reason you believe this was that you never drove while here. Also, I have driven several American cars (and a couple of pickups) and all of them got better mileage that your friends claim they could get with their sub compacts. I once owned a 71 mustang, v-8 automatic transmission they got 30 on the highway, high 20's in town. So once again you dear friends in the U S are either fictional or with friends like them who needs enemies. Third possibility is that your friends were morons.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 3:32:27 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
When I was talking with my US hosts and said that I was dismayed at my low fuel figure of 38-45 mpg they gasped because it was twice what they were getting for even a compact car.
They really had no idea just how bad US-made cars were compared to other places.
Fine if you want a gas-guzzling bulldozer/tank disguised as a car but useless anywhere else outside the USA.


implicit in this statement is that European/british/asian automobiles got lots better mileage. could you source that please? especially keeping the year in question in mind.



Chevrolet Lumina (1997): 1,148 fuel-ups and 241,433 miles of driving, the 1997 Chevrolet Lumina gets a combined Avg MPG of 22.07 with a 0.37 MPG margin of error.
Ford Mondeo (1995): 245 fuel-ups and 79,519 miles of driving, the 1995 Ford Mondeo gets a combined Avg MPG of 30.32 with a 1.60 MPG margin of error.
Mondeo has better than 37% better fuel consumption than the Chevvy.
And that is comparing a slightly older Mondeo to the Lumina.

Want something more recent???

US: 10 best gas and diesel cars -
#1 is the 2016 Ford Fiesta SE (with the EcoBoost fuel economy package) which boasts 43 mpg highway.
UK: UK's most economical cars -
#1 is Peugeot 208 1.6 BlueHDi – 94.2mpg.
Even #10 is Vauxhall Astra 1.6 CDTi 16V ecoFLEX - 85.6mpg.

So our #10 car beats the US #1 offering by double the mpg.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 3:38:31 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I know , you are going to deny this but when you were telling us that there was no place in the US where you could drive 50 mph that the reason you believe this was that you never drove while here. Also, I have driven several American cars (and a couple of pickups) and all of them got better mileage that your friends claim they could get with their sub compacts. I once owned a 71 mustang, v-8 automatic transmission they got 30 on the highway, high 20's in town. So once again you dear friends in the U S are either fictional or with friends like them who needs enemies. Third possibility is that your friends were morons.

No Bama - you're misquoting again.
I said that *I* never went anywhere that was a higher speed limit than 55mpg.
I never claimed that the whole of the US was like that.
Also that a our friend in Rayleigh NC never drove faster than 30mph.
I also stated that I drove over there so I have no idea where you got that misnomer from.

Over here, 30mpg and less is considered dreadful.
In fact, anything under about 40~ish mpg is considered uneconomical.
Our #1 economical car is over 90mpg.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 3:43:10 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

How do you figure they are counted differently?

The VDA reports that the USA, Russia and Brazil record light trucks in their 'car' sales.
This was noted in best-selling-cars.com with a note "*USA, Brazil and Russia include light vehicles (trucks)."

Seeing as the US has a predominately high proportion of light truck market vs cars (sedans/compacts etc) compared to other exporters, if you removed those light trucks from the export figures the US would be a lot lower in the table.


Why wouldn't you count them? They are automobiles. That we ship a lot of because apparently, there is a market for them.

The point is... the counting is different.
The US, Russia and Brazil count light trucks in the sales figures.
Nobody else does.
So the figures are skewed.

Remove all the light trucks from your figures so it's a genuine like-for-like comparison.
Or can't you see the glaring logistical error??


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 3:43:11 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
When I was talking with my US hosts and said that I was dismayed at my low fuel figure of 38-45 mpg they gasped because it was twice what they were getting for even a compact car.
They really had no idea just how bad US-made cars were compared to other places.
Fine if you want a gas-guzzling bulldozer/tank disguised as a car but useless anywhere else outside the USA.


implicit in this statement is that European/british/asian automobiles got lots better mileage. could you source that please? especially keeping the year in question in mind.



Chevrolet Lumina (1997): 1,148 fuel-ups and 241,433 miles of driving, the 1997 Chevrolet Lumina gets a combined Avg MPG of 22.07 with a 0.37 MPG margin of error.
Ford Mondeo (1995): 245 fuel-ups and 79,519 miles of driving, the 1995 Ford Mondeo gets a combined Avg MPG of 30.32 with a 1.60 MPG margin of error.
Mondeo has better than 37% better fuel consumption than the Chevvy.
And that is comparing a slightly older Mondeo to the Lumina.

Want something more recent???

US: 10 best gas and diesel cars -
#1 is the 2016 Ford Fiesta SE (with the EcoBoost fuel economy package) which boasts 43 mpg highway.
UK: UK's most economical cars -
#1 is Peugeot 208 1.6 BlueHDi – 94.2mpg.
Even #10 is Vauxhall Astra 1.6 CDTi 16V ecoFLEX - 85.6mpg.

So our #10 car beats the US #1 offering by double the mpg.


OK, I gotta tell ya, I have never in my life heard of the Mondeo? Was it something that was popular on certain parts of the country or something? Actually, same for the Eagle. When FD brought that up, I had to look it up. And I am no idiot when it comes to cars. At least I didn't think I was.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 3:46:44 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
OK, I gotta tell ya, I have never in my life heard of the Mondeo? Was it something that was popular on certain parts of the country or something? Actually, same for the Eagle. When FD brought that up, I had to look it up. And I am no idiot when it comes to cars. At least I didn't think I was.

The Mondeo was Ford's equivalent of the Chevvy Eagle Lumina.
They are the same size, shape and look identical - a virtual copycat.
As far as I'm aware, it was built for the UK market and they exported some to the EU.
I don't think they ever made one in the USA.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 3:53:19 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
OK, I gotta tell ya, I have never in my life heard of the Mondeo? Was it something that was popular on certain parts of the country or something? Actually, same for the Eagle. When FD brought that up, I had to look it up. And I am no idiot when it comes to cars. At least I didn't think I was.

The Mondeo was Ford's equivalent of the Chevvy Eagle Lumina.
They are the same size, shape and look identical - a virtual copycat.
As far as I'm aware, it was built for the UK market and they exported some to the EU.
I don't think they ever made one in the USA.


Ok that makes sense. When I looked up the Eagle earlier, all that came up was the AMC Eagle, which wasn't produced after 1987. I don't know that I have ever heard a Lumina referred to anything other than just Lumina.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 4:08:36 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
Ok that makes sense. When I looked up the Eagle earlier, all that came up was the AMC Eagle, which wasn't produced after 1987. I don't know that I have ever heard a Lumina referred to anything other than just Lumina.

From what I read, Chevrolet bought out the AMC Eagle model.
They just re-badged it for some years but eventually just called it the Lumina.
Chevrolet gave up production of it in September 1997 and the last one rolled off the production line shortly after - which I assumed was also in 1997.

Even if you compare equivalent cars made by the same company, the US versions are gas-guzzlers compared to the UK/EU models.
Let's take the US #1 offering from Ford - the Fiesta SE with the full eco package manages just 43mpg on the highway.
A Ford Fiesta 1.5 TDCi ECOnetic for the UK/EU market rolls in at #2 with 88.3mpg.
That's better than double the mpg difference between almost identical models from the same manufacturer.



_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 4:08:57 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
When I was talking with my US hosts and said that I was dismayed at my low fuel figure of 38-45 mpg they gasped because it was twice what they were getting for even a compact car.
They really had no idea just how bad US-made cars were compared to other places.
Fine if you want a gas-guzzling bulldozer/tank disguised as a car but useless anywhere else outside the USA.


implicit in this statement is that European/british/asian automobiles got lots better mileage. could you source that please? especially keeping the year in question in mind.



Chevrolet Lumina (1997): 1,148 fuel-ups and 241,433 miles of driving, the 1997 Chevrolet Lumina gets a combined Avg MPG of 22.07 with a 0.37 MPG margin of error.
Ford Mondeo (1995): 245 fuel-ups and 79,519 miles of driving, the 1995 Ford Mondeo gets a combined Avg MPG of 30.32 with a 1.60 MPG margin of error.
Mondeo has better than 37% better fuel consumption than the Chevvy.
And that is comparing a slightly older Mondeo to the Lumina.

Want something more recent???

US: 10 best gas and diesel cars -
#1 is the 2016 Ford Fiesta SE (with the EcoBoost fuel economy package) which boasts 43 mpg highway.
UK: UK's most economical cars -
#1 is Peugeot 208 1.6 BlueHDi – 94.2mpg.
Even #10 is Vauxhall Astra 1.6 CDTi 16V ecoFLEX - 85.6mpg.

So our #10 car beats the US #1 offering by double the mpg.



im asking about the supposedly lots better mileage in other than American cars during the year in question that youre complaining about the "low" mileage of the eagle you drove.

giving me data about a chevy and a ford whose mileage is less, or giving me data from this year, is not an answer to that question.

unless 2016 is the year you were driving around in a 1997 eagle?


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 12/22/2016 4:12:39 PM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 4:19:56 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
im asking about the supposedly lots better mileage in other than American cars during the year in question that youre complaining about the "low" mileage of the eagle you drove.

giving me data about a chevy and a ford whose mileage is less, or giving me data from this year, is not an answer to that question.

I gave you figures for a virtual copy-cat car, one from the US (the Eagle) and one from the UK (Mondeo).
They are independent sets of fuel figures from almost the same year by the same testing company.
In fact, the Eagle was 2 years younger so should have performed better.
So it's a perfectly good comparison.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
is 2016 the year you were driving around in a 1997 eagle?

Did I say or imply that?? No, I didn't.
They were just more recent figures to demonstrate that US cars aren't as good as UK/EU equivalent cars in mpg.

My post#24 shows that even these days, US mpg figures are well below those of UK/EU ones.


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 4:29:54 PM   
subrob1967


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Status: offline 		In the US light trucks are pick up trucks and SUV's, not commercial transportation vehicles.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 4:31:36 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		what you said was:

quote:

When I was talking with my US hosts and said that I was dismayed at my low fuel figure of 38-45 mpg they gasped because it was twice what they were getting for even a compact car.


you'll have to excuse me if im missing something (is there some other rendering to your sentence?) but that implies that AT THAT TIME, there was some bunches of other than American cars getting lots better mileage compared to the car you were driving around. what were they?


as an aside, im going to suggest that if the hybrid cars you are looking at in Europe do get better mileage than their American counterparts, it has nothing to do with American technology or manufacturing, but instead, American regulations.


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 12/22/2016 4:35:17 PM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 4:32:29 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
Ok that makes sense. When I looked up the Eagle earlier, all that came up was the AMC Eagle, which wasn't produced after 1987. I don't know that I have ever heard a Lumina referred to anything other than just Lumina.

From what I read, Chevrolet bought out the AMC Eagle model.
They just re-badged it for some years but eventually just called it the Lumina.
Chevrolet gave up production of it in September 1997 and the last one rolled off the production line shortly after - which I assumed was also in 1997.

Even if you compare equivalent cars made by the same company, the US versions are gas-guzzlers compared to the UK/EU models.
Let's take the US #1 offering from Ford - the Fiesta SE with the full eco package manages just 43mpg on the highway.
A Ford Fiesta 1.5 TDCi ECOnetic for the UK/EU market rolls in at #2 with 88.3mpg.
That's better than double the mpg difference between almost identical models from the same manufacturer.



The Ford Fiesta was a piece of crap car. Just sayin'.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 4:38:34 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

In the US light trucks are pick up trucks and SUV's, not commercial transportation vehicles.

Exactly.
We don't count them in the same sales figures as 'cars' like the US/Russia/Brazil do.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 4:54:24 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		My hybrid gets 48-52

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 4:59:05 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

what you said was:

quote:

When I was talking with my US hosts and said that I was dismayed at my low fuel figure of 38-45 mpg they gasped because it was twice what they were getting for even a compact car.


you'll have to excuse me if im missing something (is there some other rendering to your sentence?) but that implies that AT THAT TIME, there was some bunches of other than American cars getting lots better mileage compared to the car you were driving around. what were they?

I gave you a direct comparison - a Ford Mondeo and a Chevrolet Eagle Lumin.
One is British, the other (that I was driving around the USA in) was the Chevrolet.
At the time, at home, I was driving a Nissan Bluebird U11.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
as an aside, im going to suggest that if the hybrid cars you are looking at in Europe do get better mileage than their American counterparts, it has nothing to do with American technology or manufacturing, but instead, American regulations.


These aren't hybrid cars - that was a separate section and not included in these figures.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 5:02:32 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
The Ford Fiesta was a piece of crap car. Just sayin'.

I quite agree.
I don't like any Ford.

But as a direct comparison for mpg figures, they both came out at or near the top.
Which just goes to show that US mpg figures aren't anywhere near like what we have in the UK/EU.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Strident China Critic Named by Trump to Lead Trade ... - 12/22/2016 5:05:25 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

My hybrid gets 48-52

That's not exactly a good figure MM - not for over here.
That would be considered reasonable for a standard car here, not a hybrid.

Hybrids are typically well over 60-70mpg for UK/EU.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 40
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