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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/28/2016 8:51:45 PM

tamaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

It also makes Israeli officials an odd choice of lens for Americans discussing U.S. policy.

Agreed. However, I had to destroy this nonsensical notion that Kerry's speech was anti-Israel.

Well it is if you know much about Israel.

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/28/2016 9:04:18 PM

MasterJaguar01

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Well it is if you know much about Israel.

This statement makes no sense. Nor does the pronoun reference.

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Post #: 22

RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/28/2016 9:25:40 PM

MasterJaguar01

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

these guys all liked the speech too!

http://www.timesofisrael.com/kerrys-speech-drives-peace-further-away-say-us-jewish-groups/

http://www.timesofisrael.com/democratic-leader-kerrys-speech-emboldens-extremists-on-both-sides/

http://www.timesofisrael.com/ted-cruz-history-to-record-obama-kerry-as-relentless-enemies-of-israel/ (Obama's been the best friend of Israel of all the presidents?)

Oh and let's not forget Israel's Foreign Minister!!! - Avigdor Liberman
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/177208

Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman praised US Secretary of State John Kerry Friday, criticizing Economics Minister Naftali Bennett's (Jewish Home) attack on the US diplomat's handling of peace talks.

"Kerry is a true friend of Israel, he leads the process correctly and has the right to think differently from that of belligerent Naftali Bennett," Liberman was quoted by Walla! as saying, adding that "Bennett has notes on everything."

"All I hear is a competition of who can be more blunt and belligerent against Kerry," he continued. "We support peace with the Palestinians, but not at any price [. . .] if I have to choose between the unity of the people and the unity of [Israel with] Judea and Samaria, I choose the unity of the people."

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/28/2016 9:54:54 PM

tamaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Well it is if you know much about Israel.

This statement makes no sense. Nor does the pronoun reference.

Kerry's speech is anti- Israel if you know much about Israel.

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Post #: 24

RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/29/2016 12:36:51 AM

MasterJaguar01

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Well it is if you know much about Israel.

This statement makes no sense. Nor does the pronoun reference.

Kerry's speech is anti- Israel if you know much about Israel.

Well, I know more about Israel than most here. I know that the current administration's policy of grabbing more and more land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem kills the possibility of peace, prosperity, and security for anyone.

I know if Tzipi Livni had prevailed in the last election:

1) We'd be well on our way to a 2-state solution.
2) Hamas would be humiliated and defeated (both politically and militarily)
3) Iran would lose legitimacy in the Middle East, as would Hezbollah, and every other terrorist assclown group in the region, (e.g. ISIS!)
4) There would be new joint Israeli-Palestinian businesses, creating more jobs for the region
5) The U.S. standing in the Middle East would fully recover from the lows of the Bush Administration
6) We would hedge out Russia in the Middle East (at least until 1/20/17, when the next President and his Secretary Of State cede all American leadership to Putin.)

The Israeli people know FAR more about Israel than I do, and they are very PRO-Israel.

Ehud Barak knows far more about Israel than I do, and he says that the majority of Israelis (who are DEFINITELY Pro-Israel) agree with the speech.

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/29/2016 1:36:30 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Kerry's speech is anti- Israel if you know much about Israel.

Come on! All the Jews, living in Israel for all these years, their leaders - both military and political - know more about Israel than some "master" on a BDSM chat board?

I'm not buying it.

/sarcasm

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/29/2016 1:55:04 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

I know if Tzipi Livni had prevailed in the last election:

1) We'd be well on our way to a 2-state solution.
2) Hamas would be humiliated and defeated (both politically and militarily)
3) Iran would lose legitimacy in the Middle East, as would Hezbollah, and every other terrorist assclown group in the region, (e.g. ISIS!)
4) There would be new joint Israeli-Palestinian businesses, creating more jobs for the region
5) The U.S. standing in the Middle East would fully recover from the lows of the Bush Administration
6) We would hedge out Russia in the Middle East (at least until 1/20/17, when the next President and his Secretary Of State cede all American leadership to Putin.)

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/30/2016 7:40:55 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Kerry's speech is anti- Israel if you know much about Israel.

Come on! All the Jews, living in Israel for all these years, their leaders - both military and political - know more about Israel than some "master" on a BDSM chat board?

I'm not buying it.

/sarcasm

Michael

Or some girl with a keyboard, or a guy with purple font.

Israel has made clear it doesn't *want* a solution, deliberately exacerbating the sitution. That's definitely going to make solving the problem more difficult.

That doesn't mean Israel doesn't have legitimate concerns. But it's not a path to peace and stability.

Nor does wiping out Palestine, which would have endless repercussions.

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/30/2016 9:48:22 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

You're kidding, right? The Obama administration that gave Iran nuclear weapons and billions of dollars to a country that has in its constitution the destruction of Isreal and all jews? That's the administration you are applauding? Seriously?

This post contains so many errors of fact in its short span that one could be forgiven for thinking that its author is going for an entry into the Guinness Book of Records!

The Obama administration did not give Iran nuclear weapons. Iran does not possess nuclear weapons.

Nor did Obama give"billions of dollars" to Iran. Obama unfroze billions of Iranian cash and assets that had been frozen for years as part of the sanctions against Iran. The funds never belonged to Obama or the USA - they were always Iranian funds lodged in US banks. So they were never Obama's to give away.

Iran does not have "the destruction of Isreal and all jews" in its constitution.

You didn't get a single fact correct, and all the 'facts' that you advanced were utterly false, so far removed from the reality that the rest of us inhabit that it seems your sources are in la-la land. Seriously. You were 100% wrong. Seriously.

The thought that people like you exercise your vote on the basis of such insanely skewed information is scary.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/30/2016 9:50:19 PM >

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/30/2016 9:59:11 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

It also makes Israeli officials an odd choice of lens for Americans discussing U.S. policy.

Agreed. However, I had to destroy this nonsensical notion that Kerry's speech was anti-Israel.

Well it is if you know much about Israel.

Kerry was part of an administration that signed an aid package to Israel worth over $50 billion almost all of it on military hardware to ensure Israel's notorious military retains a qualitative edge over any possible regional foes. Part of an administration that for 8 years protected Israel from the diplomatic and political fall out that ensued from Israel's regular atrocities and constant breaches of international law, up to and including exercising a veto at the UNSC, at great cost to itself and contrary to US national interests.

How do you square these facts with your ridiculous claim that Kerry is "anti-Israel"?

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/31/2016 12:28:29 AM

tamaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

It also makes Israeli officials an odd choice of lens for Americans discussing U.S. policy.

Agreed. However, I had to destroy this nonsensical notion that Kerry's speech was anti-Israel.

Well it is if you know much about Israel.

Kerry was part of an administration that signed an aid package to Israel worth over $50 billion almost all of it on military hardware to ensure Israel's notorious military retains a qualitative edge over any possible regional foes. Part of an administration that for 8 years protected Israel from the diplomatic and political fall out that ensued from Israel's regular atrocities and constant breaches of international law, up to and including exercising a veto at the UNSC, at great cost to itself and contrary to US national interests.

How do you square these facts with your ridiculous claim that Kerry is "anti-Israel"?

Israel is God's special land given to the Jews, no one else. Outsiders will want to divide the land and they will feel God's wrath for it. THAT is pro- Israel.

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/31/2016 1:48:29 AM

blnymph

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This is about real life, not fairy tales and legends.

Real people suffer and die there.

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/31/2016 2:19:17 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Israel is God's special land given to the Jews, no one else. Outsiders will want to divide the land and they will feel God's wrath for it. THAT is pro- Israel.

If "Israel is God's special land given to the Jews, no one else" then how come for the past two thousand years, it has been inhabited and ruled by non-Jews?

Has God been on a two thousand year holiday? Has God been looking the other way for the past two millenia? Or, (gasp!) asleep on the job? Did God suddenly wake up in 1948 and realise that Israel didn't exist and that others were the inhabitants of the "special land"?

One would have to conclude, on the basis of the historical evidence, that there is nothing to suggest that Palestine is special to any deity. As humans have warred over possession of Palestine for many of those two thousand years, there's good evidence to conclude it's closer to hell than any deity's "special land". Indeed there's scant evidence of any kind of divine intervention at all.

It is interesting to note that many of those who scream the loudest about extremist Muslims and their obnoxious murderous attempts to put the words of their (Muslim) God into reality are quite happy to justify the exact same obnoxious murderous lunacy because the Christian or Jewish God is held to have authorised it.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/31/2016 2:32:12 AM >

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/31/2016 6:57:00 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

This is about real life, not fairy tales and legends.

Real people suffer and die there.

And we have a winner!

No more calls.

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/31/2016 11:00:10 AM

WhoreMods

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
How do you square these facts with your ridiculous claim that Kerry is "anti-Israel"?

Because his boss kept Bibi waiting for half an hour for a meeting or some such perceived insult seven years back.
Pathetic, innit?

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/31/2016 2:11:59 PM

Musicmystery

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He's not anti-Israel; he's anti building more settlements on Palestinian farms to exacerbate the conflict.

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/31/2016 2:18:48 PM

tamaka

Posts: 5079
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Israel is God's special land given to the Jews, no one else. Outsiders will want to divide the land and they will feel God's wrath for it. THAT is pro- Israel.

If "Israel is God's special land given to the Jews, no one else" then how come for the past two thousand years, it has been inhabited and ruled by non-Jews?

Has God been on a two thousand year holiday? Has God been looking the other way for the past two millenia? Or, (gasp!) asleep on the job? Did God suddenly wake up in 1948 and realise that Israel didn't exist and that others were the inhabitants of the "special land"?

One would have to conclude, on the basis of the historical evidence, that there is nothing to suggest that Palestine is special to any deity. As humans have warred over possession of Palestine for many of those two thousand years, there's good evidence to conclude it's closer to hell than any deity's "special land". Indeed there's scant evidence of any kind of divine intervention at all.

It is interesting to note that many of those who scream the loudest about extremist Muslims and their obnoxious murderous attempts to put the words of their (Muslim) God into reality are quite happy to justify the exact same obnoxious murderous lunacy because the Christian or Jewish God is held to have authorised it.

No the Bible actually said that they would be scattered among the people of the world and then in the end times God would restore them back to the land, which happened in 1948 and it also said that people would divide the land (they are trying to do that now) and when that happened God's wrath would be on the nations that divided it... Pretty incredible the detail that was spelled out thousands of years ago and we are watching it all play out in our lifetime.

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/31/2016 4:32:07 PM

MasterJaguar01

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Israel has made clear it doesn't *want* a solution, deliberately exacerbating the sitution. That's definitely going to make solving the problem more difficult.

That should read:

The current administration in Israel has made clear it doesn't *want* a solution, deliberately exacerbating the situation. That's definitely going to make solving the problem more difficult.

A good chunk of the Knesset and a former PM want a workable two-state solution.

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/31/2016 4:38:57 PM

MasterJaguar01

Posts: 2352
Joined: 12/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

It also makes Israeli officials an odd choice of lens for Americans discussing U.S. policy.

Agreed. However, I had to destroy this nonsensical notion that Kerry's speech was anti-Israel.

Well it is if you know much about Israel.

Kerry was part of an administration that signed an aid package to Israel worth over $50 billion almost all of it on military hardware to ensure Israel's notorious military retains a qualitative edge over any possible regional foes. Part of an administration that for 8 years protected Israel from the diplomatic and political fall out that ensued from Israel's regular atrocities and constant breaches of international law, up to and including exercising a veto at the UNSC, at great cost to itself and contrary to US national interests.

How do you square these facts with your ridiculous claim that Kerry is "anti-Israel"?

Israel is God's special land given to the Jews, no one else. Outsiders will want to divide the land and they will feel God's wrath for it. THAT is pro- Israel.

tamaka...

You REALLY need to proof read what you type. Your loose pronoun association turns your posts into a Palin-esque word salad.

THAT is pro-Israel???? Outsiders wanting to divide the land and feeling G-d's wrath for it?

I don't think that is what you meant, but your post just doesn't make sense.

I will let the leaders in Israel whom I respect decide what is pro-Israel and what is not. They overwhelmingly say that Kerry's speech is pro-Israel.

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RE: What an AMAZING Speech! - 12/31/2016 6:15:47 PM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Israel has made clear it doesn't *want* a solution, deliberately exacerbating the sitution. That's definitely going to make solving the problem more difficult.

That should read:

The current administration in Israel has made clear it doesn't *want* a solution, deliberately exacerbating the situation. That's definitely going to make solving the problem more difficult.

A good chunk of the Knesset and a former PM want a workable two-state solution.