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RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:10:13 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
We're in a system that thinks it's okay for us to pay $1671 per month for two people for the worst plan to support a family of 6 paying $75 a month for the best plan.


Please cite creditable reference for the latter.


My health insurance is $1671 per month with a $5000 per person deductible for the Bronze plan under Covered California. An acquaintance of ours, both he and his wife work minimum wage jobs, pays $75 per month for themselves and their 4 kids on the platinum plan.


I'll take your word on that. I know I hate it myself when people refer to actual personal experience as 'anecdotal evidence.' Yes, it's your or my own corner of the world, it's not intended as representation of the entire country, etc. (at least I hope you know that).

But, if I have it right, you are a business owner or otherwise self-employed, whereas I think it's obvious that your minimum wage neighbors have the majority of their health plan being covered by their employers, the $75 being their own required contribution. If that's so, then it's an apples/oranges thing. And families with kids get extra consideration whether in regard to taxes or insurance, that's not new. I'm glad it's that way.

The question is: with combination of all health care costs and your vs. their total remuneration for your efforts in consideration here, would you trade places with them?




As I've endlessly tried to point out, it's not about health care, it's about money and that's for everybody in the health care industry, providers, suppliers and insurers.

The insurance industry it seems, can't yet cope with the influx of newly insured and must pick up the tab for any and all pre-existing conditions, so we get large deductibles. The providers and suppliers see a vast increase in demand and some increase in costs, so we see higher premiums.

Osidegirl for one example, is now in the ACA's infancy, forced to subsidize much of the costs and coverage for others just entering the system. We'll see of this continues and if profits are realized and the repubs don't repeal, I am afraid for her's and everybody's rates.

The doctors and hospitals are enjoying a new stream of income from patients who can now finally pay but don't have the lobbying clout the big players do, so if there is repeal, we'll see a stop to the increase in the uninsured...becoming insured and maybe...maybe a leveling off of premiums.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:14:50 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Nothing more shocking to an academician than original thought, in my experience.


: ) i think therefore I AM


So you're a morning person, then.




< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/31/2016 9:15:47 PM >

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:21:35 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline 		I didn't say it was evil but it could be.

I'm usually right ; ) ... And we are lucky that Buffet hasn't decided to buy political influence, but counting on the goodnesd and benevolence of others is not really the best National Security policy, imo

It doesn't grow demand as i said. Thank you for evidently taking the time to ask someone who was educated so you could find out i was right and for taking the time to come back and edit your mistake. ; )

Envy is something a being like myself has no need for.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:23:02 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Nothing more shocking to an academician than original thought, in my experience.


: ) i think therefore I AM


So you're a morning person, then.





Lol... actually i'm a night owl.


(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:25:02 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
... so much for hard work
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/how-warren-buffett-made-12-billion-in-2016-202017531.html


Apparently, you don't know how hard it is to count to 12 billion.



Or 67.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:26:20 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

... so much for hard work

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/how-warren-buffett-made-12-billion-in-2016-202017531.html


People that say shit like this.....have NOOOOOOO concept how hard it is to be wealthy.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:26:43 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you've yet to articulate how exactly its bad.

I agree. He's never written exactly what the problem is. We've known since the railroads and the industrial revolution, that big profits are there if you position yourself.

Here's an example I bet most didn't know. While I came to hate what he did in his later life, John D. Rockefeller at one point made...9 cents an hour as a youth. He gave some to his parents, gave some to the church, saved some and spent very little and of course didn't have to. He budgeted by the hour BTW.

He continued with that practice all of his life. He was once asked why he so specifically did all of that. He said he simply wanted to get into the practice budgeting and saving so when he saw an opportunity, he could...jump on it.

When he found out there was oil I think in or near Cleveland, Ohio, the rest as they say...is history. That he later monopolized and didn't play by such morally acceptable rules, doesn't change how he got started.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:27:24 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

The democrats are his little lap dog

Him and Soros


You're a Moron.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:30:07 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you've yet to articulate how exactly its bad.



You're smarter than i am. Why don't you help me out by telling me how it is good for society?

If what you argue is so bad for society and you wish to have a free society and I will assume...push for truly free markets, then the onus is on you to explain yourself.

I think I have a book in me on the subject and many have even suggested...I write it. Getting it published is quite another thing.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:30:35 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
... so much for hard work
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/how-warren-buffett-made-12-billion-in-2016-202017531.html


Apparently, you don't know how hard it is to count to 12 billion.


Anyone who thinks it's easy should just go do it.

There's a reason he's called the Oracle of Omaha.

Get back to us and share your results.


Thank you.

Flawlessly and.....perfectly.....stated.

When you want to bash Millionaires (or Billionaires).....try being one.

(It's a {fucking} tough job)

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:30:40 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

... so much for hard work

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/how-warren-buffett-made-12-billion-in-2016-202017531.html


People that say shit like this.....have NOOOOOOO concept how hard it is to be wealthy.


Tell us all about it.

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:32:18 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
... so much for hard work
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/how-warren-buffett-made-12-billion-in-2016-202017531.html


Apparently, you don't know how hard it is to count to 12 billion.


Anyone who thinks it's easy should just go do it.

There's a reason he's called the Oracle of Omaha.

Get back to us and share your results.


How does it feel to be the lap dog for the ultra wealthy elite establishment owners

Reminds me of the video of Hillary barking like a chihuahua


How does it feel being uninformed and destined to a life of less than is available?

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:32:44 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you've yet to articulate how exactly its bad.



You're smarter than i am. Why don't you help me out by telling me how it is good for society?

If what you argue is so bad for society and you wish to have a free society and I will assume...push for truly free markets, then the onus is on you to explain yourself.

I think I have a book in me on the subject and many have even suggested...I write it. Getting it published is quite another thing.


You can self publish on amazon i believe.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:34:43 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

ANOTHER buffet / Soros crotch puppet is heard from


I'm fairly certain....you're actually a moron.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:46:21 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
[I never said nor implied that person x being a billionaire prevents person y from becoming one.

No, you just said that x is 'ebil,'
quote:

I do have an issue with the fact that individuals can accumulate so much wealth... i do think that money is power and i don't think that much power being garnered by unelected people is safe for the nation... or the world for that matter.

You are right in that more money= more political influence, but point out where Buffett himself has done this?

quote:

Being able to make demands to replace what you already had (cars, appliances, homes, etc) does not grow demand

It doesn't 'grow demand,' it sustains it. If GDP grows by more than 4% in a developed country, the alarms go off. Why don't you ask somebody educated in these matters first? Oh right, that is totally against politics. Sorry.
quote:

I am not speaking from a point of envy. If you knew me at all you'd actually lol at the idea.

If paying attention, the envy is all his, not yours.


Right there is something that needs to be addressed. The Government we have today (I make no claims about any government prior to the government prior to 2000) can be bought. Someone with enough cash can buy influence and power. I think that's a horribly dangerous situation. And, I'm willing to bet that tamaka's real "agenda" is trying to prevent government influence and power from being bought. Not surprisingly enough, I agree with that, as I'm sure most of you, if not all of you, also agree. Here is where tamaka and I part ways: tamaka wants to prevent people from amassing enough wealth to be able to buy government influence and power. Sadly, what tamaka either doesn't realize or isn't willing to acknowledge, it doesn't really take that much money to buy favors from government officials. It's certainly beyond the means of the poor, and the majority of the Middle Class, but it's not as expensive as you might think, depending on the level of influence you're trying to get.

What I want, is for government to not be for sale. I want government officials to not be beholden to donors. $1 or $1B, doesn't matter. I don't want government to be for sale.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:52:11 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

What's significant if not surprising, is that I am sure most of that $12 billion or so is in what's called...capital gains.

First, they are not realized until all of the paper (or property) upon which those gains are built...is sold. Thus to have actually 'made' those $12 billion, Buffet would have to sell enough to get that cash. Even then, the net gains would only be those $12 billion...minus his basis, i.e., the amount of investment it took to realize $12 billion in gains.

I see two main problems.

1) One of the easiest ways to 'make' money is with money and that which is used for buying and selling of property or paper. There are many that will tell you and I agree, that this kind of investment draws too much capital away from investment in the economy at large, i.e, doing something (services) and making something. (manufacturing) Thus these investments rank last in creating jobs and increasing GDP.

2) These gains draw to much capital because they are subject to about 1/2 or less sometimes slightly more than 1/2 of the corporate tax rate or for creating or engaging in services or manufacturing and also 1/2 of the highest tax rate on labor. Thus both 1 and 2 skew the economy (and capital) toward speculation and debt paper and away from real economic growth and job growth.

Plus there are those that will tell you and I agree, that the returns enjoyed by Buffet (BH) most likely, also far and away...outweigh the risks taken.


Well....I'm beyond impressed.......one of the most informed posters (who actually knows what the fuck he's talking about) on here.

Let's deal with the facts.........

1) His investments are done with cash. No debt.....guy doesn't borrow 10 cents to buy (any) company..

2) Any growth in his asset valuation is done (historically.....every year....over 60 years) by growth in the asset (ergo, your assumption that it's not "realized" is valid....until....it's "realized").

3) The guy buys STRONG company's with STRONG balance sheets with STRONG management and then....let's them run their own gig.

Anyone that thinks this dude was born with a silver spoon or.....has some kind of unearned advantage.....is a moron.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:54:04 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
And the Walton children did what exactly?



I have some admiration for Sam Walton's initial efforts, but not for how it turned out, or the family, or of ultimate effect on society, but it is still an interesting story how it all came about. The guy almost invented 'monospsony power' all by himself. To give a basic econ intro to the subject (you just can't wait for this one, can you?), 'monopoly power' describes the degree to which one holds all the cards or whatever can be close to it, in having all or most of the market in his possession for that item. Like DeBeers in diamonds, at one time. No one holds absolute monopsony, but if someone says "I will buy 15,000 pair of baby booties and 40,000 child pyjamas and 60,000 cheap sweaters of whatever size, -at my price- " then "If you can't meet that price, I'll find some other factory that will." That is monopsony power. The buyer dictating terms, with the buying power to do so.



The only surprising aspect to the success of Walmart is that nobody was smart enough to copy Walton's business model of taking advantage of cheap Chinese labor. (80%+ of Walmart's inventory is made in China) It simply didn't take any particular brilliance on his part or degrees from Harvard or Wharton to figure that out.

Kmart, (Kresge's) JCPenny, Sears...(Montgomery Ward or Woolworths) all dropped the ball and few can figure out why. In fact, Sears is not long for this world actually having to borrow money from its own management. If that isn't a slap in their corporate face...nothing is. JC Penny may soon be...right behind them.

BTW, what is a monopsony ? Do you mean monopoly ?


Anyone who doesn't think the US government was involved in that deal is a moron.


Explain. What did Walmart do or get from the govt. that the other retailers didn't ?


I think that the government got together with Walton and set the whole thing up with China. Exactly what they did, besided facilitate the whole thing, we'll probably never know.


Well I for one distrust govt. completely but you assertion is pretty far fetched. And what the govt. did or didn't do, didn't stop KMart or the others from taking the same advantages of trading with China.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:54:36 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

... so much for hard work

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/how-warren-buffett-made-12-billion-in-2016-202017531.html


So, you think he didn't work hard to get to where he is?


No... i don't. How many long hard hours would nurses, teachers, plumbers, etc have to work to make that kind of money?


A SHITLOAD longer if they thought like and invested like nurses, teachers, plumbers.

But he doesn't.

(Invest like nurses, teachers, plumbers).

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 9:59:46 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
I didn't say it was evil but it could be.


It absolutely has been, while you were asleep, sorry you missed out on it. But you just woke up and had a pee and just noticed Buffett and apparently unaware of damage rendered while you snored. Good morning.

quote:

I'm usually right ; ) ... And we are lucky that Buffet hasn't decided to buy political influence, but counting on the goodnesd and benevolence of others is not really the best National Security policy, imo

It doesn't grow demand as i said. Thank you for evidently taking the time to ask someone who was educated so you could find out i was right and for taking the time to come back and edit your mistake. ; )


"Thank you for evidently taking the time to ask someone who was educated"

Yes, I consult myself from time to time.

If an edit attending to initial response to idiocy makes your day, so be it, but no comment on how 'growing demand' works, or why it would be desirable?

I'll wait while you consult someone educated in the matter.


< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/31/2016 10:08:26 PM >

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Warren Buffet made $12 billion in 2016 - 12/31/2016 10:04:06 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
And the Walton children did what exactly?



I have some admiration for Sam Walton's initial efforts, but not for how it turned out, or the family, or of ultimate effect on society, but it is still an interesting story how it all came about. The guy almost invented 'monospsony power' all by himself. To give a basic econ intro to the subject (you just can't wait for this one, can you?), 'monopoly power' describes the degree to which one holds all the cards or whatever can be close to it, in having all or most of the market in his possession for that item. Like DeBeers in diamonds, at one time. No one holds absolute monopsony, but if someone says "I will buy 15,000 pair of baby booties and 40,000 child pyjamas and 60,000 cheap sweaters of whatever size, -at my price- " then "If you can't meet that price, I'll find some other factory that will." That is monopsony power. The buyer dictating terms, with the buying power to do so.



The only surprising aspect to the success of Walmart is that nobody was smart enough to copy Walton's business model of taking advantage of cheap Chinese labor. (80%+ of Walmart's inventory is made in China) It simply didn't take any particular brilliance on his part or degrees from Harvard or Wharton to figure that out.

Kmart, (Kresge's) JCPenny, Sears...(Montgomery Ward or Woolworths) all dropped the ball and few can figure out why. In fact, Sears is not long for this world actually having to borrow money from its own management. If that isn't a slap in their corporate face...nothing is. JC Penny may soon be...right behind them.

BTW, what is a monopsony ? Do you mean monopoly ?


Anyone who doesn't think the US government was involved in that deal is a moron.


Explain. What did Walmart do or get from the govt. that the other retailers didn't ?


I think that the government got together with Walton and set the whole thing up with China. Exactly what they did, besided facilitate the whole thing, we'll probably never know.


Well I for one distrust govt. completely but you assertion is pretty far fetched. And what the govt. did or didn't do, didn't stop KMart or the others from taking the same advantages of trading with China.


Who knows what deals they got that made it impossible for anyone to compete at that level. Infrastructure, trade deals, etc. The government has been subsidizing their payroll for years. I think they do experimental studies on human productivity etc. The controls they have in that company are beyond strange. I believe the government also used WM computer systems for a period of time and i know that their facilities were set up as centers in case of emergency situations, etc.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 220
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