RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (Full Version)

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tamaka -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 9:20:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Between the people that just didn't understand the premise and the butt-hurt little minds that just came here to call names, the point of the initial post has been missed:

Two years ago, when Colorado (for example) was fixin' to be one of the first states to legalize pot, there were some of us (myself, included) who warned that there were things that we didn't know about that would become issues.

I have been conflicted on this issue because I believe it's none of my business what you put into your body (I'd like to suggest large amounts of arsenic for some of you).

That said, thanks to the way our society is headed, it IS my business what you put into your body because of how it affects me (insurance premiums, etc.).

I would call kidney failure a pretty serious condition and, when someone is locked in the grip of addiction, saying something like: "All they have to do is stop/cut down on their usage" seems pretty logical to most. To an addict it sounds like: "All you have to do is stop breathing" to the rest of us.

Moral equivalency isn't going to work. I'd be in favor of getting rid of alcohol, also.

Why is it though that a large portion of people can't see past their own nose? "I like getting high so, you're not taking this away from me, but I'll take your shit away from you"?

Simple minds = No discussion/solution.



Michael



You smoke cigarettes. You just proved yourself to be a fucking hypocrite.


19, 2014 | 3:47 PM EST
Cigarette smoking costs weigh heavily on the healthcare system

By Madeline Kennedy
(Reuters) - Of every $10 spent on healthcare in the U.S., almost 90 cents is due to smoking, a new analysis says.

Using recent health and medical spending surveys, researchers calculated that 8.7 percent of all healthcare spending, or $170 billion a year, is for illness caused by tobacco smoke, and public programs like Medicare and Medicaid paid for most of these costs.

“Fifty years after the first Surgeon General’s report, tobacco use remains the nation’s leading preventable cause of death and disease, despite declines in adult cigarette smoking prevalence,” said Xin Xu from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), who led the study.

Over 18 percent of U.S. adults smoke cigarettes and about one in five deaths are caused by smoking, according to the CDC.

Xu and colleagues linked data on healthcare use and costs from the 2006-2010 Medical Expenditure Panel Survey to the 2004-2009 National Health Interview Survey for a nationally-representative picture of smoking behavior and costs.

Out of more than 40,000 adults, 21.5 percent were current smokers, 22.6 percent were former smokers and 56 percent had never smoked. The researchers used prior data on smoking-related disease and deaths to calculate the proportion of healthcare spending by each person that could be attributed to smoking.

They also adjusted their figures for factors like excess drinking, obesity and socioeconomic status, and calculated the proportion of spending by payer.

In that analysis, 9.6 percent of Medicare spending, 15.2 percent of Medicaid spending and 32.8 percent of other government healthcare spending by sources such as the Veterans Affairs department, Tricare and the Indian Health Service, were attributable to smoking.

Of the $170 billion spent on smoking-related healthcare, more than 60 percent was paid by government sources, they wrote in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine.

Smoking-related healthcare costs affect most types of medical care, said Kenneth Warner at the University of Michigan School of Public Health. “Smoking infiltrates the entire body, through the blood stream, and causes disease in many of the body's organs,” he told Reuters Health in an email.

Along with lung and heart problems, smoking can cause eye disease, skin problems and many cancers including pancreatic and bladder cancer, noted Warner, who was not involved in the new analysis.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 9:31:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Between the people that just didn't understand the premise and the butt-hurt little minds that just came here to call names, the point of the initial post has been missed:

Two years ago, when Colorado (for example) was fixin' to be one of the first states to legalize pot, there were some of us (myself, included) who warned that there were things that we didn't know about that would become issues.

I have been conflicted on this issue because I believe it's none of my business what you put into your body (I'd like to suggest large amounts of arsenic for some of you).

That said, thanks to the way our society is headed, it IS my business what you put into your body because of how it affects me (insurance premiums, etc.).

I would call kidney failure a pretty serious condition and, when someone is locked in the grip of addiction, saying something like: "All they have to do is stop/cut down on their usage" seems pretty logical to most. To an addict it sounds like: "All you have to do is stop breathing" to the rest of us.

Moral equivalency isn't going to work. I'd be in favor of getting rid of alcohol, also.

Why is it though that a large portion of people can't see past their own nose? "I like getting high so, you're not taking this away from me, but I'll take your shit away from you"?

Simple minds = No discussion/solution.



Michael



You smoke cigarettes. You just proved yourself to be a fucking hypocrite.



Before you call me a hypocrite: Are you absolutely sure I still smoke cigarettes or are you viewing a photo taken in 2008 on my profile?

Seriously, you make this too easy.

The rest of your post was, therefore, negligible.



Michael




heavyblinker -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 9:32:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

That said, thanks to the way our society is headed, it IS my business what you put into your body because of how it affects me (insurance premiums, etc.).

As someone whose profile pic for years had them with a cigarette hanging out of their mouth, you can add this latest hypocritical log onto your bullshit fire.


Ahahahahahahahahahahaha.




heavyblinker -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 9:37:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Before you call me a hypocrite: Are you absolutely sure I still smoke cigarettes or are you viewing a photo taken in 2008 on my profile?

Seriously, you make this too easy.

The rest of your post was, therefore, negligible.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I smoke cigarettes –
Forgetting the fact that I enjoy smoking, nicotine is actually good for stimulating the production of dopamine in the brain, which is good for me.

I may switch to electronic cigarettes or some other delivery method, at some point but nicotine will be with me for the rest of my life.






DaddySatyr -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 9:46:00 AM)


Another simple mind.

First off: I'm pretty sure it's still against the rules here to post the contents of peoples' profiles in the forums (Don't worry. I'll report your post to check with a moderator).

Secondly: When, exactly, was the last time I updated my profile?

Gawd! You people make this easy.



Michael




stef -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 9:47:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Before you call me a hypocrite: Are you absolutely sure I still smoke cigarettes or are you viewing a photo taken in 2008 on my profile?

You were a hypocrite long before this thread ever brought your latest hypocrisy to light, sport.




tamaka -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 10:10:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Another simple mind.

First off: I'm pretty sure it's still against the rules here to post the contents of peoples' profiles in the forums (Don't worry. I'll report your post to check with a moderator).

Secondly: When, exactly, was the last time I updated my profile?

Gawd! You people make this easy.



Michael




You are a hypocrite... you can do whatever you want, but it doesn't change what you are.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 1:37:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

You are a hypocrite... you can do whatever you want, but it doesn't change what you are.



No. You got caught-out assuming shit about which you have no possible knowledge.

I've given you some latitude in the past, but you're dismissed, now.



Michael




tamaka -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 1:44:56 PM)

*




tamaka -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 1:48:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

You are a hypocrite... you can do whatever you want, but it doesn't change what you are.



No. You got caught-out assuming shit about which you have no possible knowledge.

I've given you some latitude in the past, but you're dismissed, now.



Michael



Fine.





angelikaJ -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 2:22:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Anything 'sickness' that can be relieved with a hot shower is not something i would worry about.



I'm guessing you didn't read the article.

The abdominal pain and vomiting can be abated by a hot shower or bath. The kidney failure - according to the article - only by not smoking the demon weed so much.



Michael




The *kidney failure is a by-product of the dehydration from the vomiting and/or the hot showers/baths.
It is usually an acute condition, treatable with IV fluids.

*cannabinoid hyperemesis acute renal failure (CHARF)
(from Wiki)




MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 5:30:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Between the people that just didn't understand the premise and the butt-hurt little minds that just came here to call names, the point of the initial post has been missed:

That said, thanks to the way our society is headed, it IS my business what you put into your body because of how it affects me (insurance premiums, etc.).




Seriously!!!???? Now everyone's behavior is YOUR business because it could affect your insurance premiums?????

Are you going to grab doughnuts out of people's hands too?


I have read some completely asinine things on here. This one has to be in the top three of that group.




MrRodgers -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 6:30:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Between the people that just didn't understand the premise and the butt-hurt little minds that just came here to call names, the point of the initial post has been missed:

Two years ago, when Colorado (for example) was fixin' to be one of the first states to legalize pot, there were some of us (myself, included) who warned that there were things that we didn't know about that would become issues.

I have been conflicted on this issue because I believe it's none of my business what you put into your body (I'd like to suggest large amounts of arsenic for some of you).

That said, thanks to the way our society is headed, it IS my business what you put into your body because of how it affects me (insurance premiums, etc.).

I would call kidney failure a pretty serious condition and, when someone is locked in the grip of addiction, saying something like: "All they have to do is stop/cut down on their usage" seems pretty logical to most. To an addict it sounds like: "All you have to do is stop breathing" to the rest of us.

Moral equivalency isn't going to work. I'd be in favor of getting rid of alcohol, also.

Why is it though that a large portion of people can't see past their own nose? "I like getting high so, you're not taking this away from me, but I'll take your shit away from you"?

Simple minds = No discussion/solution.



Michael


Two things. There is no physiological addiction to pot...it's all psychological. Of course the hard drugs and alcohol do have such a physiological addiction. (look at the legalized addictions now for pain killers)

Yes, there is the rare anecdotal evidence that over consumption of many drugs...does harm. The argument Michael, becomes which harms to society present themselves as requiring a solution. The answer is few if any.

As I stated, society pays a very high price for and a higher price in...creating black markets for anything. The the weight comes down on the side of legalization for the most benign, and often therapeutic, one of which...is pot.

Then there is the tax benefit on both sides...less cost and higher revenue.




Greta75 -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 8:21:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Try Singapore, everything is illegal there.
T^T

Awesome isn't it! *Big Grins*
And I feel so happy with all the things that are illegal too!
Now just waiting for them to get some damn guts to ban cigarettes too!

I tell you what is a ridiculous but awesomely great law! We fine people for not flushing public toilets!
Personally I think, this law should be compulsory!




DaddySatyr -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 9:04:03 PM)


You make some valid points, but I have some personal knowledge on a few of them that is contrary to what you present:

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Two things. There is no physiological addiction to pot...it's all psychological. Of course the hard drugs and alcohol do have such a physiological addiction. (look at the legalized addictions now for pain killers)



I think your first sentence is disputed by some pretty reputable people. Even if my contention isn't true, I can tell you that in many cases, the psychological addiction is more of a barrier to non-addiction than the physical. I speak from personal experience as well as the experience of millions of others who have lifted themselves out of the fog of addiction.

Proof? Well, there are people who have been alcohol and drug free for years who have found themselves listening to their inner demons and going back on the merry-go-'round. I personally knew a guy who was off his drug of choice for seven years (no more physiological addiction). His running buddy got out of jail and he signed the house over to his wife and went out on a tear. He earned his second, third and fourth DUIs in the space of two weeks.

So, frankly, I don't give a fat rat's ass if pot is physiologically addictive or not. People do become addicted to it on some level.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Yes, there is the rare anecdotal evidence that over consumption of many drugs...does harm. The argument Michael, becomes which harms to society present themselves as requiring a solution. The answer is few if any.



" ... rare anecdotal evidence that over consumption of many drugs ... does harm". Seriously? I'm hoping you mis-"spoke", there. Over-consumption of just about any drug does harm (even if only to the liver).

I think the second part of that section is non-sequitur. I think something that does harm to society by definition , requires a solution. Unless one is advocating for harming society being a good thing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

As I stated, society pays a very high price for and a higher price in...creating black markets for anything. The the weight comes down on the side of legalization for the most benign, and often therapeutic, one of which...is pot.



I agree that black markets are fairly easily created when we outlaw something. I'd have to be blind not to agree. So ... more gun laws or do we flood the market with legal weapons? Which black markets are we okay with and which ones should we avoid?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Then there is the tax benefit on both sides...less cost and higher revenue.



Yes, there are tax benefits (I guess), but back to "harming society": do those tax benefits over-shadow the harm caused or does the "harm" wind up obliterating any tax benefit?

Slick Willy started the process of accelerated taxes on tobacco and smokers were told this was because of the "harm they caused to society". ObummerCare accelerated those taxes (by way of mandating purchase of insurance and allowing insurance companies free range to gouge smokers in excess premiums). Oooops! Premiums up another 25% (on average) across the country, this year.

I understand the necessity for some taxes, sure. So, is creating a deeper tax pool justification for knowingly allowing people to harm themselves (and society)?

I'm on the side of: "NO".



Michael




heavyblinker -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/4/2017 11:14:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

You are a hypocrite... you can do whatever you want, but it doesn't change what you are.



No. You got caught-out assuming shit about which you have no possible knowledge.

I've given you some latitude in the past, but you're dismissed, now.
Michael



Fine.


I've been 'dismissed' multiple times and nothing happens.
It's just his way of pretending that he has control over himself or anyone else.




Termyn8or -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/5/2017 2:19:50 AM)

"The *kidney failure is a by-product of the dehydration from the vomiting and/or the hot showers/baths.
It is usually an acute condition, treatable with IV fluids.

*cannabinoid hyperemesis acute renal failure (CHARF)
(from Wiki)
"


Well thank you for some real information. I thought this such a new phenomenon that wiki wouldn't have anything on it.

But now that indicates that it is a secondary condition. (I drink when I smoke so...) I can tell you that taking too big a hit can make you cough violently, and that can induce vomiting. So bottom line it is not the THC causing it, it is the smoke.

At least that's the way I am reading it.

It is dehydration. Actually in an otherwise healthy individual a bout of dehydration should not kill the kidneys. You can look at someone with muscles, run five miles a day, bunch 350 and be the picture of health, but it is only a picture. Their endocrine system may be on the brink of collapse. And there is no real way to tell.

Conclusion - anything that induces excessive vomiting can cause this.

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/5/2017 2:28:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Try Singapore, everything is illegal there.
T^T

Awesome isn't it! *Big Grins*
And I feel so happy with all the things that are illegal too!
Now just waiting for them to get some damn guts to ban cigarettes too!

I tell you what is a ridiculous but awesomely great law! We fine people for not flushing public toilets!
Personally I think, this law should be compulsory!


Don't they already ban smoking in most public places ? Actually here in this state they do, and the bars were pissed off. Lots of bbar owners thwarted the "law". If you wanted to smoke, to get an ashtray for the night you paid a buck. The fine is ike $1,500. People who drink generally want to smoke. I stopped cigarettes in 2011 but I am not a whiner about it. you sign a contract not to smoke in a rental car. Some leases for apartments have a clause that you can't smoke in your own home.

And as far as not flushing toilets, I can't stand it when someone doesn't flush. I am not the cleanest person in the world. I don't shower multiple times a day or any of that, hell the only time I wash my hands is when I am going too cook. But letting the shit (literally lol) shit in the toilet and reek is just fucking disgusting.

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/5/2017 2:31:19 AM)

"So, frankly, I don't give a fat rat's ass if pot is physiologically addictive or not. People do become addicted to it on some level. "

Yeah, same with coffee, which I don't drink.

T^T




thishereboi -> RE: Legalized Pot: Still A Good Idea? (1/5/2017 3:42:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Anything 'sickness' that can be relieved with a hot shower is not something i would worry about.



I'm guessing you didn't read the article.

The abdominal pain and vomiting can be abated by a hot shower or bath. The kidney failure - according to the article - only by not smoking the demon weed so much.



Michael



My guess is they didn't come here to have a discussion, they came to take pot shots at you. Or perhaps I am being to harsh and they want to join in but the article is too advanced for them to understand. Either way I wouldn't worry about it too much.

As to the article, I worry that they will slap a tag on you and stop looking for other causes. I had a patient who came in last month and they claimed this was her problem. Then when the symptoms continued after a week, when they should have stopped they realized something else must be causing the vomiting and started tests again. This was the third time she had been in the hospital for the same thing and up until now they have been blaming it on the pot. Now they have to start from square one and find out what is wrong. It is too easy to say well she is throwing up and she smokes pot so this must be the problem.




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