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Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obamacar... - 1/15/2017 8:59:10 AM   
dcnovice


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This past week, Senate Republicans narrowly passed through a resolution calling for the repeal of six key components of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). House Republicans have been instructed to bring forward a repeal bill by January 27 — one week after Trump is officially sworn in as president. it appears that President-elect Trump and both houses of Congress are poised to undo Obama’s signature healthcare reform legislation within Trump’s first 100 days as president.

However, some of Trump’s supporters were particularly alarmed about the possibility of losing their health insurance. Their tweets all have a connecting theme of shock and surprise that the coverage they depend on, which was made possible by Obamacare, could be taken away by the man they voted for.


http://usuncut.com/politics/dismayed-trump-supporters-obamacare/

Good heavens. What did they think was going to happen?

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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 9:05:10 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

This past week, Senate Republicans narrowly passed through a resolution calling for the repeal of six key components of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). House Republicans have been instructed to bring forward a repeal bill by January 27 — one week after Trump is officially sworn in as president. it appears that President-elect Trump and both houses of Congress are poised to undo Obama’s signature healthcare reform legislation within Trump’s first 100 days as president.

However, some of Trump’s supporters were particularly alarmed about the possibility of losing their health insurance. Their tweets all have a connecting theme of shock and surprise that the coverage they depend on, which was made possible by Obamacare, could be taken away by the man they voted for.


http://usuncut.com/politics/dismayed-trump-supporters-obamacare/

Good heavens. What did they think was going to happen?


Many Trump voters, are dismayed by the skyrocketing Obamacare plan costs that Obama's IRS forces them to pay

Then how the astronomical deductibles, make the plan worse than worthless

(A big part of the reason Democrats are now just a coastal party, with no national power and have lost hundreds state-level offices nationwide).

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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 9:17:20 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Good heavens. What did they think was going to happen?

You're assuming that thinking was a part of their decision making process.

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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 9:19:15 AM   
WhoreMods


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Next:
Family of man who died of anaphylactic shock after fucking a beehive claim that his dying words were that he didn't expect to get his dick stung.

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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 9:19:17 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Good heavens. What did they think was going to happen?

You're assuming that thinking was a part of their decision making process.

Good point.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 9:51:27 AM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Good heavens. What did they think was going to happen?

You're assuming that thinking was a part of their decision making process.

Good point.



https://twitter.com/svonewsletter/status/820620416603525122


< Message edited by Wayward5oul -- 1/15/2017 9:52:37 AM >

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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 10:12:45 AM   
Lucylastic


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Never underestimate the power of stupid people...who vote against their own health.

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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 10:27:35 AM   
bounty44


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double post

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 1/15/2017 10:44:16 AM >

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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 10:29:19 AM   
bounty44


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"Repealing Obamacare Has To Include Consequences"

quote:

Repealing Obamacare is all but a certainty. It’s the "replace" part that has everyone hung up. Democrats hilariously claim if Republicans “break it, they’ve bought it.” That’s like accusing someone of breaking the picture on a jigsaw puzzle.

Still, the matter of replacing this abomination presents Republicans with serious problems, not the least of which is the concept of government interference in health insurance has long been ceded.

Were this a pre-Obamacare world, implementation would be easy to stop – people can’t miss what they never had. But it was implemented, and millions of people are used to what Obamacare has “given” them.

This is particularly true of the millions of people who’ve been put on the Medicaid rolls.

Medicaid was supposed to be a program to help the poor – the real poor, not those who have to postpone the purchase of a new 70-inch TV until they find a better sale price. Since its inception, what qualifies as “poor” for the purposes of Medicaid has been creeping up. Obamacare accelerated that trend.

Republicans now have to figure out what to do with a family of four that makes $80,000 but still suckles the government teat by taking health insurance designed for people who are incapable of obtaining it for themselves. What do you tell them?

Calling them losers won’t win any votes, but anyone firmly in the middle class who is comfortable with leeching off taxpayers so they don’t have to address their personal responsibility is unlikely to vote Republican anyway.

Whatever Republicans eventually coalesce around will arm Democrats with people who have no qualms leaching off the government and are more than happy to be trotted out as examples of people “suffering” under the cruel GOP action. So what?

Republicans have to focus on getting the policy right, or as right as they can on an issue with which government never should have gotten involved.

Getting it right means getting the government out of it as much as possible. Republicans can’t concern themselves with who “wins” or “loses,” or if there will be “pain.” Frankly, there has to be pain. Pain should be a cornerstone of what is proposed as a replacement.

The solution to replacing Obamacare isn’t to cobble together a different big government solution, it’s to empower individuals to make the best choices for themselves and get the hell out of the way of everything else.

Among the many changes, there likely will be competition across state lines for health insurance, which will be good and drive competition. And tax credits to buy it. All well and good. But there has to be consequences for choosing not to do so.

The individual mandate must be repealed. The federal government has no business forcing the Americans people to purchase something they don’t want. But there should be serious consequences for not at least buying some catastrophic coverage.

It’s usually young people who don’t buy health insurance. They are least likely to need it and end up essentially subsidizing wealthier older people anyway. They should be free to opt out of that pyramid scheme.

But if, God forbid, someone 37 years old get sick after they’d chosen not to buy insurance, they should not be absolved of the ramifications of that choice.

I’m not saying they should die on the streets. They should get treatment. But they should have to pay for it. Maybe not all of it, but a significant portion. If they own a house, they should have to sell it. Their wages should be garnisheed until a significant but fair portion of their tab is satisfied.

They would have made a bet and lost, and they shouldn’t get to walk away from a bet just because they lost.

Significant pain, or potential for it, would encourage people to do the right thing while affording them the option not to. Family, friends, communities could take up collections and help people who gambled and lost settle their debts, but not taxpayers as a whole. We need to restore the concept of responsibility as we restore liberty. Replacing one big government program with another does neither.

In modern America, the idea of consequences is almost as dead as Latin. The importance of returning them to all areas of life is crucial, particularly in health care. Americans should be free to gamble, to roll the dice. But if it comes up snake eyes, well, the house needs to be paid. If someone wants to risk it to save on premiums for something they don’t think they’ll need, knock yourself out. Just don’t come running to taxpayers if you do get knocked out.


http://townhall.com/columnists/derekhunter/2017/01/15/repealing-obamacare-has-to-include-consequences-n2271604


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 1/15/2017 10:47:17 AM >

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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 10:34:09 AM   
Lucylastic


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I rest my case....



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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 10:49:41 AM   
bounty44


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"Healthcare Is Not a Human Right"

(and disagreement over that is another essential difference between the comrades and most of the rest of us)

quote:

...what are human rights? And is healthcare a human right?

When we claim to have a right to something we mean that we have dominion over that something and that others are obligated to respect this dominion. The various versions of the texts leading up to the final draft of the Declaration of Independence reflect this natural rights tradition in America: we are all created free and independent, we have certain inherent natural rights that precede the State and therefore cannot be granted nor taken away by the State, among those rights we have life, liberty, and the means of possessing private property to pursue and obtain happiness and safety.

When person A claims that he owns this watch, person B’s obligation is to recognize this watch as A’s property. B is therefore precluded from taking it from A unless (1) A sell’s it to B, (2) A gifts it to B, (3) A lends it to B temporarily. If B steals it from A, B may enjoy it, but B does not have a right over it because in stealing B violated A’s dominion to the watch, therefore A has the right to demand its return, if necessary use violence against B to claim it back, and in addition, exact a punishment against B.

When person A claims that he has a right to his life, person B’s obligation is to recognize A’s body and refrain from harming it. A’s right to life does not demand action on the part of B. It demands restraint. If A is drowning, A’s right to life does not force B to save A from death. But A’s right to life does force B to not drown A.

Strictly speaking, then, rights place an obligation on others to not act in a way that invades that which is claimed by those rights. A’s right to the watch places an obligation on B to not take away the watch unless conditions 1, 2 or 3 above are met. A’s right to life places an obligation on B to not take A’s life. Rights do not demand action from others to sustain that which is claimed by those rights. A’s right to the watch or to his life does not demand that B support A’s ability to enjoy the watch or his life, for example by requiring that B repair the watch if it were broken or requiring that B financially support A’s lifestyle. Rights demand recognition, respect and restraint on the part of others. Rights do not demand action.

Murray Rothbard uses this negative rights approach in Ethics of Liberty, quoting Father James Sadowsky as follows: “when we say that one has the right to do certain things we mean this and only this, that it would be immoral for another, alone or in combination, to stop him from doing this by the use of physical force or the threat thereof” (p. 24). Similarly, Robert Nozick in Anarchy State and Utopia argues in favor of “side constraints,” that A’s rights constrain or prohibit B’s actions: “The rights of others determine the constraints upon your actions … The side-constraint view forbids you to violate these moral constraints in the pursuit of your goals.” (See Chapter 3, “Moral Constraints and the State,” specifically p. 29).

It is in this strict negative sense of the definition of rights that we must evaluate whether or not health is a human right. If we state that A has a right to health, this right cannot place an obligation on B to act in any way other than to not act, that is, to recognize A’s right, to respect A’s right and to restrain from causing A to become unhealthy.

When supporters of the central coordination of the provision of healthcare by the state say that healthcare is a human right they mean that this right ought to place an obligation on everyone not just to refrain from causing harm, but to act in such as way as to support everyone else’s health needs and to force everyone to relinquish part of their income or wealth to the state so that the state may finance or provide health services to someone else, presumably someone in need.

But we have already concluded that rights cannot place a positive obligation on others to act, but only a constraint or a negative obligation to recognize, respect and restrain from causing harm to others; therefore, a right to healthcare cannot exist other than in a negative rights sense. The state’s claim that a positive right to health exists is only justified by the state’s use of violence or threat to use violence to force its subjects to comply with its demand that someone’s health needs be met. Through the state’s use of violence those who receive state sponsored health services may enjoy the fruit of the state’s expropriation, but in no way can these recipients claim they have a right to the state’s largesse. They can enjoy it but they do not have a right over it. Neither can the state argue that it is justified by the healthcare rights of those in need to expropriate the income or wealth of others. Once again, the state can enjoy that privilege due to its threat or actual use of violence, but it cannot have a right to do so.

Supporters of positive rights confuse justice with charity and in their confusion they improperly establish a system of “compulsory charity.” Saint Thomas Aquinas defines justice as “the perpetual and constant will to render to each one his right” and states that “a man is said to be just because he respects the rights of others” (Summa Theologica, II-II q. 58 a.1). The claim that those in need of food, shelter and health place on others are not claims of justice for the object of justice is rights and rights are restraints on action rather than obligations to act; therefore, justice requires that people be left alone free to enjoy their rights.

The claims that those in need of healthcare services place on others are claims of pity, of compassion, of sympathy, of help, of mercy, of love, but not of justice. The claim of those in need is the realm of charity. Aquinas defines charity as “love which is together with benevolence” and as a kind of friendship in which we actively desire the good of our fellow human beings (Summa Theologica II-II q.23 a.1). Charity places an obligation to desire and actively seek and do good to others through beneficence and almsgiving (Summa Theologica II-II q.31, q.32).

But the effect of this obligation of charity must be bound by human action, that is, by humans acts for an end “which proceed from a deliberate will.” Any act resulting from anything other than a person’s deliberate will may be called an act of man but cannot be properly called human action. (Summa Theologica I-II q.1 a.1, q.6 a.1). Acts of charity as human action are and must always be voluntary. Murray Rothbard is emphatic in this too, stating that “charity is a voluntary and flexible act of grace on the part of the giver” (Man, Economy, and State p. 1258).

“Compulsory charity,” that is, the threat or the use of violence to expropriate the wealth and income of some for the purposes of aiding those in need cannot be morally justified.1 First, expropriation, regardless of its beneficial end, violates the principle of negative human rights or side-constraints. Aquinas states (Summa Theologica II-II q.32 a.7) that when a thing is ill-gotten (for example, through theft), it may not be given away in alms because it must first be restored to the proper owner. Second, we cannot properly speak of charity in a compulsory arrangement of expropriation because coercion violates the voluntary characteristic of charity.

Healthcare services can only be provided and can only be properly justified under arrangements that are voluntary and that do not violate negative human rights. Only two types of arrangements fit this description. One, under a free market in which producers and consumers of health freely buy and sell services. Two, under a charitable arrangement in which organizations financed by voluntary contributions from donors or by their own profitable ventures provide health services to those in need free of charge or at a discount.

We conclude, therefore, that the apparatus of compulsion set up by the state to finance and provide healthcare to those in need cannot be morally justified.2 It may be the “law of the land” and the state’s subjects in all likelihood may have to submit to it under the threat or use of state sponsored violence, but let us be clear, this “law” cannot be derived from any reference to human rights. It is strictly based on violence and coercion and therefore cannot possibly be morally justified.


http://libertarianstandard.com/articles/gabriel-e-vidal/healthcare-is-not-a-human-right/


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RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 10:54:41 AM   
bounty44


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variation on the theme from the hillarycare days:

"Health Care Is Not a Right"

quote:

Most people who oppose socialized medicine do so on the grounds that it is moral and well-intentioned, but impractical; i.e., it is a noble idea—which just somehow does not work. I do not agree that socialized medicine is moral and well-intentioned, but impractical. Of course, it is impractical—it does not work—but I hold that it is impractical because it is immoral. This is not a case of noble in theory but a failure in practice; it is a case of vicious in theory and therefore a disaster in practice. So I'm going to leave it to other speakers to concentrate on the practical flaws in the Clinton health plan. I want to focus on the moral issue at stake. So long as people believe that socialized medicine is a noble plan, there is no way to fight it. You cannot stop a noble plan—not if it really is noble. The only way you can defeat it is to unmask it—to show that it is the very opposite of noble. Then at least you have a fighting chance.

What is morality in this context? The American concept of it is officially stated in the Declaration of Independence. It upholds man's unalienable, individual rights. The term "rights," note, is a moral (not just a political) term; it tells us that a certain course of behavior is right, sanctioned, proper, a prerogative to be respected by others, not interfered with—and that anyone who violates a man's rights is: wrong, morally wrong, unsanctioned, evil.

Now our only rights, the American viewpoint continues, are the rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. That's all. According to the Founding Fathers, we are not born with a right to a trip to Disneyland, or a meal at Mcdonald's, or a kidney dialysis (nor with the 18th-century equivalent of these things). We have certain specific rights—and only these.

Why only these? Observe that all legitimate rights have one thing in common: they are rights to action, not to rewards from other people. The American rights impose no obligations on other people, merely the negative obligation to leave you alone. The system guarantees you the chance to work for what you want—not to be given it without effort by somebody else.

The right to life, e.g., does not mean that your neighbors have to feed and clothe you; it means you have the right to earn your food and clothes yourself, if necessary by a hard struggle, and that no one can forcibly stop your struggle for these things or steal them from you if and when you have achieved them. In other words: you have the right to act, and to keep the results of your actions, the products you make, to keep them or to trade them with others, if you wish. But you have no right to the actions or products of others, except on terms to which they voluntarily agree.

To take one more example: the right to the pursuit of happiness is precisely that: the right to the pursuit—to a certain type of action on your part and its result—not to any guarantee that other people will make you happy or even try to do so. Otherwise, there would be no liberty in the country: if your mere desire for something, anything, imposes a duty on other people to satisfy you, then they have no choice in their lives, no say in what they do, they have no liberty, they cannot pursue their happiness. Your "right" to happiness at their expense means that they become rightless serfs, i.e., your slaves. Your right to anything at others' expense means that they become rightless.

That is why the U.S. system defines rights as it does, strictly as the rights to action. This was the approach that made the U.S. the first truly free country in all world history—and, soon afterwards, as a result, the greatest country in history, the richest and the most powerful. It became the most powerful because its view of rights made it the most moral. It was the country of individualism and personal independence.

Today, however, we are seeing the rise of principled immorality in this country. We are seeing a total abandonment by the intellectuals and the politicians of the moral principles on which the U.S. was founded. We are seeing the complete destruction of the concept of rights. The original American idea has been virtually wiped out, ignored as if it had never existed. The rule now is for politicians to ignore and violate men's actual rights, while arguing about a whole list of rights never dreamed of in this country's founding documents—rights which require no earning, no effort, no action at all on the part of the recipient.

You are entitled to something, the politicians say, simply because it exists and you want or need it—period. You are entitled to be given it by the government. Where does the government get it from? What does the government have to do to private citizens—to their individual rights—to their real rights—in order to carry out the promise of showering free services on the people?

The answers are obvious. The newfangled rights wipe out real rights—and turn the people who actually create the goods and services involved into servants of the state. The Russians tried this exact system for many decades. Unfortunately, we have not learned from their experience. Yet the meaning of socialism (this is the right name for Clinton's medical plan) is clearly evident in any field at all—you don't need to think of health care as a special case; it is just as apparent if the government were to proclaim a universal right to food, or to a vacation, or to a haircut. I mean: a right in the new sense: not that you are free to earn these things by your own effort and trade, but that you have a moral claim to be given these things free of charge, with no action on your part, simply as handouts from a benevolent government.

How would these alleged new rights be fulfilled? Take the simplest case: you are born with a moral right to hair care, let us say, provided by a loving government free of charge to all who want or need it. What would happen under such a moral theory?

Haircuts are free, like the air we breathe, so some people show up every day for an expensive new styling, the government pays out more and more, barbers revel in their huge new incomes, and the profession starts to grow ravenously, bald men start to come in droves for free hair implantations, a school of fancy, specialized eyebrow pluckers develops—it's all free, the government pays. The dishonest barbers are having a field day, of course—but so are the honest ones; they are working and spending like mad, trying to give every customer his heart's desire, which is a millionaire's worth of special hair care and services—the government starts to scream, the budget is out of control. Suddenly directives erupt: we must limit the number of barbers, we must limit the time spent on haircuts, we must limit the permissible type of hair styles; bureaucrats begin to split hairs about how many hairs a barber should be allowed to split. A new computerized office of records filled with inspectors and red tape shoots up; some barbers, it seems, are still getting too rich, they must be getting more than their fair share of the national hair, so barbers have to start applying for Certificates of Need in order to buy razors, while peer review boards are established to assess every stylist's work, both the dishonest and the overly honest alike, to make sure that no one is too bad or too good or too busy or too unbusy. Etc. In the end, there are lines of wretched customers waiting for their chance to be routinely scalped by bored, hog-tied haircutters some of whom remember dreamily the old days when somehow everything was so much better.

Do you think the situation would be improved by having hair-care cooperatives organized by the government?—having them engage in managed competition, managed by the government, in order to buy haircut insurance from companies controlled by the government?

If this is what would happen under government-managed hair care, what else can possibly happen—it is already starting to happen—under the idea of health care as a right? Health care in the modern world is a complex, scientific, technological service. How can anybody be born with a right to such a thing?

Under the American system you have a right to health care if you can pay for it, i.e., if you can earn it by your own action and effort. But nobody has the right to the services of any professional individual or group simply because he wants them and desperately needs them. The very fact that he needs these services so desperately is the proof that he had better respect the freedom, the integrity, and the rights of the people who provide them.

You have a right to work, not to rob others of the fruits of their work, not to turn others into sacrificial, rightless animals laboring to fulfill your needs.

Some of you may ask here: But can people afford health care on their own? Even leaving aside the present government-inflated medical prices, the answer is: Certainly people can afford it. Where do you think the money is coming from right now to pay for it all—where does the government get its fabled unlimited money? Government is not a productive organization; it has no source of wealth other than confiscation of the citizens' wealth, through taxation, deficit financing or the like.

But, you may say, isn't it the "rich" who are really paying the costs of medical care now—the rich, not the broad bulk of the people? As has been proved time and again, there are not enough rich anywhere to make a dent in the government's costs; it is the vast middle class in the U.S. that is the only source of the kind of money that national programs like government health care require. A simple example of this is the fact that the Clinton Administration's new program rests squarely on the backs not of Big Business, but of small businessmen who are struggling in today's economy merely to stay alive and in existence. Under any socialized program, it is the "little people" who do most of the paying for it—under the senseless pretext that "the people" can't afford such and such, so the government must take over. If the people of a country truly couldn't afford a certain service—as e.g. in Somalia—neither, for that very reason, could any government in that country afford it, either.

Some people can't afford medical care in the U.S. But they are necessarily a small minority in a free or even semi-free country. If they were the majority, the country would be an utter bankrupt and could not even think of a national medical program. As to this small minority, in a free country they have to rely solely on private, voluntary charity. Yes, charity, the kindness of the doctors or of the better off—charity, not right, i.e. not their right to the lives or work of others. And such charity, I may say, was always forthcoming in the past in America. The advocates of Medicaid and Medicare under LBJ did not claim that the poor or old in the '60's got bad care; they claimed that it was an affront for anyone to have to depend on charity.

But the fact is: You don't abolish charity by calling it something else. If a person is getting health care for nothing, simply because he is breathing, he is still getting charity, whether or not President Clinton calls it a "right." To call it a Right when the recipient did not earn it is merely to compound the evil. It is charity still—though now extorted by criminal tactics of force, while hiding under a dishonest name.

As with any good or service that is provided by some specific group of men, if you try to make its possession by all a right, you thereby enslave the providers of the service, wreck the service, and end up depriving the very consumers you are supposed to be helping. To call "medical care" a right will merely enslave the doctors and thus destroy the quality of medical care in this country, as socialized medicine has done around the world, wherever it has been tried, including Canada (I was born in Canada and I know a bit about that system first hand).

I would like to clarify the point about socialized medicine enslaving the doctors. Let me quote here from an article I wrote a few years ago: "Medicine: The Death of a Profession." [The Voice of Reason: Essays in Objectivist Thought, NAL Books, © 1988 by the Estate of Ayn Rand and Leonard Peikoff.]

"In medicine, above all, the mind must be left free. Medical treatment involves countless variables and options that must be taken into account, weighed, and summed up by the doctor's mind and subconscious. Your life depends on the private, inner essence of the doctor's function: it depends on the input that enters his brain, and on the processing such input receives from him. What is being thrust now into the equation? It is not only objective medical facts any longer. Today, in one form or another, the following also has to enter that brain: 'The DRG administrator [in effect, the hospital or HMO man trying to control costs] will raise hell if I operate, but the malpractice attorney will have a field day if I don't—and my rival down the street, who heads the local PRO [Peer Review Organization], favors a CAT scan in these cases, I can't afford to antagonize him, but the CON boys disagree and they won't authorize a CAT scanner for our hospital—and besides the FDA prohibits the drug I should be prescribing, even though it is widely used in Europe, and the IRS might not allow the patient a tax deduction for it, anyhow, and I can't get a specialist's advice because the latest Medicare rules prohibit a consultation with this diagnosis, and maybe I shouldn't even take this patient, he's so sick—after all, some doctors are manipulating their slate of patients, they accept only the healthiest ones, so their average costs are coming in lower than mine, and it looks bad for my staff privileges.' Would you like your case to be treated this way—by a doctor who takes into account your objective medical needs and the contradictory, unintelligible demands of some ninety different state and Federal government agencies? If you were a doctor could you comply with all of it? Could you plan or work around or deal with the unknowable? But how could you not? Those agencies are real and they are rapidly gaining total power over you and your mind and your patients. In this kind of nightmare world, if and when it takes hold fully, thought is helpless; no one can decide by rational means what to do. A doctor either obeys the loudest authority—or he tries to sneak by unnoticed, bootlegging some good health care occasionally or, as so many are doing now, he simply gives up and quits the field."

The Clinton plan will finish off quality medicine in this country—because it will finish off the medical profession. It will deliver doctors bound hands and feet to the mercies of the bureaucracy.

The only hope—for the doctors, for their patients, for all of us—is for the doctors to assert a moral principle. I mean: to assert their own personal individual rights—their real rights in this issue—their right to their lives, their liberty, their property, their pursuit of happiness. The Declaration of Independence applies to the medical profession too. We must reject the idea that doctors are slaves destined to serve others at the behest of the state.

I'd like to conclude with a sentence from Ayn Rand. Doctors, she wrote, are not servants of their patients. They are "traders, like everyone else in a free society, and they should bear that title proudly, considering the crucial importance of the services they offer."

The battle against the Clinton plan, in my opinion, depends on the doctors speaking out against the plan—but not only on practical grounds—rather, first of all, on moral grounds. The doctors must defend themselves and their own interests as a matter of solemn justice, upholding a moral principle, the first moral principle: self-preservation. If they can do it, all of us will still have a chance. I hope it is not already too late. Thank you.


http://www.afcm.org/hcinar.html

(americans for free choice in medicine)

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 11:01:48 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

This past week, Senate Republicans narrowly passed through a resolution calling for the repeal of six key components of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). House Republicans have been instructed to bring forward a repeal bill by January 27 — one week after Trump is officially sworn in as president. it appears that President-elect Trump and both houses of Congress are poised to undo Obama’s signature healthcare reform legislation within Trump’s first 100 days as president.

However, some of Trump’s supporters were particularly alarmed about the possibility of losing their health insurance. Their tweets all have a connecting theme of shock and surprise that the coverage they depend on, which was made possible by Obamacare, could be taken away by the man they voted for.


http://usuncut.com/politics/dismayed-trump-supporters-obamacare/

Good heavens. What did they think was going to happen?

Interesting piece on Pence, interviewing people he's worked with -- shows him as a quiet man who doesn't always think through his positions (like the decisions he got slammed on during the campaign--he actually never saw it coming).

I think that's true of a lot of Trump voters -- they never really thought it through.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 11:02:20 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
Article 25 of the Universal declaration of human rights
Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

Now the US doesnt agree
sad ol united states.
"best healthcare on the planet" if you can afford it, if you cant, die, or get punished.
yaaaaaaaaaaay


_____________________________

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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 11:03:47 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

This past week, Senate Republicans narrowly passed through a resolution calling for the repeal of six key components of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). House Republicans have been instructed to bring forward a repeal bill by January 27 — one week after Trump is officially sworn in as president. it appears that President-elect Trump and both houses of Congress are poised to undo Obama’s signature healthcare reform legislation within Trump’s first 100 days as president.

However, some of Trump’s supporters were particularly alarmed about the possibility of losing their health insurance. Their tweets all have a connecting theme of shock and surprise that the coverage they depend on, which was made possible by Obamacare, could be taken away by the man they voted for.


http://usuncut.com/politics/dismayed-trump-supporters-obamacare/

Good heavens. What did they think was going to happen?

Interesting piece on Pence, interviewing people he's worked with -- shows him as a quiet man who doesn't always think through his positions (like the decisions he got slammed on during the campaign--he actually never saw it coming).

I think that's true of a lot of Trump voters -- they never really thought it through.

So maybe they need to have a learning experience that'll encourage them to consider their actions a bit more carefully in future.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 11:40:47 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
"CNN's Gupta Highlights Physician Who Opposes ObamaCare"

quote:

...The CNN correspondent then highlighted how poorly ObamaCare if viewed by physicians as he highlighted a survey finding that substantially more doctors rate ObamaCare with either of D or an F than with an A or B. Gupta: "So how do doctors feel about ObamaCare? Well, a little stuck. Because surveys show only 3.2 percent give ObamaCare an A grade. And yet, most of the major medical associations are urging no repeal without replacement, worried about the loss of coverage for millions of people."

A graph was displayed showing that the percentage of doctors who gave the program an A or B grade only added up to just over 23 percent, while more than 48 percent gave it either a D or F.

Then came a clip of Dr. Benjamin Sommers of the Howard T.H. Chan School of Public Health fretting that people will lose insurance if the ObamaCare law is repealed. Gupta then returned to Dr. Hill asked for his response to that argument:

quote:

GUPTA: For people out there who have been beneficiaries -- there are some 20 million of them. What would you say to them, as a doctor?

HILL: Did we really solve the problem? Co-pays are going up, deductibles are going up. They're giving you insurance, but are they really giving you access to health care?


The CNN correspondent then informed viewers of the added costs that resulted from ObamaCare:

quote:

GUPTA: As Dr. Hill and many other doctors see it, the same exact care now costs more than it should.

HILL: I look in my office, and I've got a coder, I've got a biller, I've got someone who works on prior authorization, pre-certification. All of those things have raised the cost of health care to the point where physicians went, "I'm out."




http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/brad-wilmouth/2017/01/14/cnns-gupta-highlights-physician-who-opposes-obamacare

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 11:56:57 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

"Healthcare Is Not a Human Right"

(and disagreement over that is another essential difference between the comrades and most of the rest of us)

Among the comrades:

"Health is not a consumer good but a universal right, so access to health services cannot be a privilege," the pope said May 7 during a meeting with members, volunteers and supporters of Doctors with Africa, a medical mission begun by the Diocese of Padua, Italy, 65 years ago.

http://www.catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2016/health-care-is-a-right-not-a-privilege-pope-says.cfm


While numerous efforts have been made throughout
the 20th and early 21st centuries to provide universal health
care benefits, perhaps no organization or institution has
supported the issue as strongly as the Catholic Church.
First addressed by Pope John XXIII in the landmark
encyclical letter Pacem in Terris, health care is deemed
by the Church as a basic human right, along with life,
food, clothing and shelter. The Catechism of the Catholic
Church explains that the political community has a duty
to ensure the right to medical care (par. 2211), and further
states that the pursuit of the common good must include
health care in order to attain acceptable living conditions
(par. 2288). In fact, the Catholic Church has supported
efforts to provide universal health care coverage for at
least 90 years.


http://www.micatholic.org/assets/files/focus/focus_20100219-HealthCare.pdf

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 12:43:22 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

This past week, Senate Republicans narrowly passed through a resolution calling for the repeal of six key components of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). House Republicans have been instructed to bring forward a repeal bill by January 27 — one week after Trump is officially sworn in as president. it appears that President-elect Trump and both houses of Congress are poised to undo Obama’s signature healthcare reform legislation within Trump’s first 100 days as president.

However, some of Trump’s supporters were particularly alarmed about the possibility of losing their health insurance. Their tweets all have a connecting theme of shock and surprise that the coverage they depend on, which was made possible by Obamacare, could be taken away by the man they voted for.


http://usuncut.com/politics/dismayed-trump-supporters-obamacare/

Good heavens. What did they think was going to happen?


I hasnt even started yet.. Trump & his Rs have a long list of shite (medicare, medicaid, SS, everything else) they are gonna fuck up real good.. Its gonna be an interesting show to watch as those "unexpected consequences" unfold.. But ya know 4 years from now they will still vote for him/them again.. (and imo the Ds will still be stumbling around helplessly in the dark)..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 12:46:42 PM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11274
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I hasnt even started yet..


No shit - just more fake news

_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Dismayed Trump voters tweet about losing their Obam... - 1/15/2017 12:49:24 PM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11274
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

"Healthcare Is Not a Human Right"

(and disagreement over that is another essential difference between the comrades and most of the rest of us)

Among the comrades:

"Health is not a consumer good but a universal right, so access to health services cannot be a privilege," the pope said May 7 during a meeting with members, volunteers and supporters of Doctors with Africa, a medical mission begun by the Diocese of Padua, Italy, 65 years ago.

http://www.catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2016/health-care-is-a-right-not-a-privilege-pope-says.cfm


While numerous efforts have been made throughout
the 20th and early 21st centuries to provide universal health
care benefits, perhaps no organization or institution has
supported the issue as strongly as the Catholic Church.
First addressed by Pope John XXIII in the landmark
encyclical letter Pacem in Terris, health care is deemed
by the Church as a basic human right, along with life,
food, clothing and shelter. The Catechism of the Catholic
Church explains that the political community has a duty
to ensure the right to medical care (par. 2211), and further
states that the pursuit of the common good must include
health care in order to attain acceptable living conditions
(par. 2288). In fact, the Catholic Church has supported
efforts to provide universal health care coverage for at
least 90 years.


http://www.micatholic.org/assets/files/focus/focus_20100219-HealthCare.pdf


Just like food is a right, and shelter is a right, and clothing is a right, and access to prostitutes is a right, and Wifi is a right, and a cell phone is a right, and Internet access is a right

No one should ever have to provide anything for themselves, that what government is for

Say three fail Barrys and you may go

_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 20
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