Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 11:56:22 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Interestingly, Plato's point about tyranny arising out of democracy also describes Germany in the 1920s and 1930s, which saw Hitler emerge triumphant out of the ruins of the Weimar Republic's failed democracy.

Why some ordinary people - working class and middle class - arrived at the conclusion that a born rich billionaire who has devoted his life to rapacious and avaricious self aggrandisement is the best person to represent their interests and carry out their wishes is a question still awaiting a conclusive answer. Perhaps if more people knew of Plato's views the nightmare might never have happened.

There have been answers. Not big, conclusive answers to be sure but there have been answers. One problem is that many don't want to hear them. From another writer:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/sneering-response-trumps-victory-reveals-exactly-won-2/



_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 11:59:17 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
Seems like there was a great deal of sneering of the wealth of Clinton, Sanders, Buffett and Soros, by the pants shitting, felchgobbling feebleminded nutsuckers..................

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 12:11:05 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The respectable set’s allergy to Trump is fundamentally an allergy to the idea of democracy itself. To them, Trump’s rise confirms the folly of asking the ignorant, the everyday, the non-subscribers to the New York Times, to decide on important political matters. They’re explicit about this now. In the run-up to election day, big-name commentators wondered out loud if democracy is all it’s cracked up to be. Trump’s ascendancy showed we need better checks and balances on ‘the passions of the mob’, said Andrew Sullivan. We should ‘cool and restrain [these] temporary populist passions’, he said, and refuse to allow ‘feeling, emotion’ to override ‘reasoned deliberation’. The little folks only feel and wail, you see, and it’s down to the grown-ups in the system to think coolly on their behalf.

This is an odd argument to advance about the 2016 election, given that a truly democratic result would have led to a new Clinton Administration. HRC, after all, got three million more votes.

Indeed, our right-wing brethren have been quick to tell us that the U.S. is a republic not a democracy, hence our clinging to the Electoral College. The EC specifically does what the Spectator author sneers at: entrust the choice of president to a small, theoretically informed group.

As Hamilton wrote, "It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations" (Federalist 68).
Actually, what the right has been telling you is that we are a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC with DEMOCRATIC ideals.

As for the electoral college, the electors' votes are based on the vote within each individual state. The purpose of the EC has been explained before as how they do their job. Your words make it sound as if they are totally outside of each states voters, making a decision contrary to the people who selected them. But that would've only happened if they'd been "faithless" (good word for them) and had listened to that vocal group of increasingly desperate people who lost.


< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 1/20/2017 12:21:28 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 12:17:55 PM   
Adding2Family


Posts: 1
Joined: 12/27/2016
Status: offline
It is sad that so many people have no clue that America is not a democracy, it is a Republic... This is a good indication of the brainwashing of the public by the government controlled propaganda educational system. Where in the actual Organic constitution do it say that the federal government has the authority to control voting? That was given to the people not the government... why? because the people in the corporate government will serve the corporation and not the people (Reference the Federalist papers John Adams - chapter 52 if I remember). If you don't believe that the Federal Government is a corporation then look up the following... Title 28, sub section 3002 section 15(a and b) If I remember correctly. Remember that the victor writes the history... When the South succeeded from the Union exactly what brought them to make such a drastic move? The Union of States created as a "More perfect union..." that was the next step after the "Confederation of State" was a contract... it did not "give" you any rights, whereas it protected existing rights. So many people erroneously believe that the Constitution is where they get their rights from... They cannot be more wrong.

Each state is a sovereign country upon itself, the states united created the first North American Union in essence similar to the European Union. Each sovereign state/country retained all of its individual sovereignty and rights when it contracted with other state/countries in creating the United States of America. This is in essence the states or nations united together in their own sovereignty by contract for specific purposes. Those purposes were to create a universal monetary system based upon gold and silver... It is in the Constitution, so where is it now? The money system we have is based upon private credit issued by a private banking system... Yes, this is legal but it is not lawful. If you look at the contract or the organic Constitution, you will see that is specifies a republic form of government. If you look at the original or the organic Constitution of your state, it will say the same thing... A republic form of government... Nowhere in the Constitution does it speak of a democracy. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that the federal government which is in fact a fiction, has the right to control the voting process, or for that matter education in the independent nation states of America.

When the South seceded from the union of states, they did so because there was a breach of contract by the northern states against the southern states which occurred in congressional record... If you take the time to go back and read the actual record you can see this. You will not find this in the propaganda books from the government educational system. The essence of this is section was a breach in states sovereignty rights. It had very little to do with slavery because according to historical records slavery was already on its way out in the South... But that was the red herring or the red flag issue of the day in order to turn the ignorant public against the South.

Before the South seceded, the original 13th amendment had been passed... That is not the 13th amendment that we see today. Here is a good link for the verified research and documentation of the original 13th amendment http://www.amendment-13.org/ ... In essence it specified that no lawyer or BAR member is allowed to hold an office of any sort at any level. I will not get into the criminality of the BAR association at this time...

What we have today at every level of government from city up through the federal level is nothing less than corporate control that was never meant to be... The city is a municipal corporation, the county is a municipal corporation, the state is a territorial corporation, and the United States is a territorial corporation. Every part, every agency that we have been misinformed to believe has authority over us are nothing more than corporations. This is easy to determine by going to the Dun & Bradstreet corporate listings... You will find everything from the dogcatcher to the alleged court of justice all to be for-profit corporations... The interesting thing is these corporations do not belong to the people... It belongs to private groups. So how can you get justice in a for-profit judicial system that is being controlled by a for-profit corporation?

This is all a matter of record, but you have to get off of your ass and do a little research and use your brain to find this stuff... You can't just argue it off of knee-jerk stupidity... We have a right by contract for republic form of government... This means the county to be a republic form of government, the state to be a republic form of government, and the national to be a republic form of government... Assuming you even know what a republic form of government is... Where the hell is it?

What we have is a corporation providing governmental services instead... And they're doing it pissed poor job of that as it is because they do not follow their own actual laws. For anybody that is semi-educated and literate, they know and understand that code is not law, they understand that revised statutes is not law, and more importantly the understand the stupidity of demanding the "rule of law" because that means using code and revive statues which are rules created by the corporation as if they were laws.

So essentially, and factually, Trump is the CEO of the largest corporation in this country he is the president of that corporation and frankly given that we have no Republic because it has been usurped from the American people by the BAR which occurred back in the middle 1800s and yes that is also just a matter of record, I would far rather have a successful and experienced CEO than a piece of crap we just had for the last eight years who was not only an idiot, he took every opportunity to tear down the fabric of the American people.

What was the other choice? A known and proven criminal whose family is associated with the higher levels of the Chicago mob, who has a history of dead people throughout her life, billions of dollars disappearing from the public funds, a well-known hatred for the military... And there's not enough space here to go on about the psychopathic if not sociopathic woman: Hillary Clinton.




(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 12:22:59 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Actually, what the right has been telling you is that we are a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC with DEMOCRATIC ideals.

As you wish.

But that completely negates the Spectator author's claim that Trump's inauguration represents some sort of democratic triumph.

The EC was designed specifically to take the choice of president out of the hands of the "ordinary, working, non-PhD-holding people" the author pretends to champion. And it's frequently rationalized with reminders about the founders' dread of "mob rule."

It also had the handy benefit, along with the 3/5 compromise, of boosting the power of slave states, but that's another story.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 12:28:58 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
But, in general, the protective system of our day is conservative, while the free trade system is destructive. It breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favor of free trade.

And there is that............

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 12:34:49 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

It is sad that so many people have no clue that America is not a democracy, it is a Republic...

And right on cue . . .

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Adding2Family)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 12:37:10 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX
More fake news from the BBC

For one, it's not "News" of any sort.
Ergo: it can't be "fake news".
Secondly, it's an opinion piece by Andrew Sullivan, not the BBC.
So again, it can't be "fake news" because it's the opinion of a blogger, not a news item.
In the second of two very personal viewpoints for BBC Newsnight, British-American author and blogger Andrew Sullivan argues there are lessons to be learnt from Plato.
It happened to be aired by a BBC opinion program.
As usual InSanity - you're full of shit.


Maybe he though Plato worked for the BBC?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 12:41:30 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

It had very little to do with slavery

The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."

These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.


Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union, December 24, 1860

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Adding2Family)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 12:44:23 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX
More fake news from the BBC

For one, it's not "News" of any sort.
Ergo: it can't be "fake news".
Secondly, it's an opinion piece by Andrew Sullivan, not the BBC.
So again, it can't be "fake news" because it's the opinion of a blogger, not a news item.
In the second of two very personal viewpoints for BBC Newsnight, British-American author and blogger Andrew Sullivan argues there are lessons to be learnt from Plato.
It happened to be aired by a BBC opinion program.
As usual InSanity - you're full of shit.


Maybe he though Plato worked for the BBC?




_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 1:01:09 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

More fake news from the BBC


For one, it's not "News" of any sort.
Ergo: it can't be "fake news".

Secondly, it's an opinion piece by Andrew Sullivan, not the BBC.
So again, it can't be "fake news" because it's the opinion of a blogger, not a news item.
In the second of two very personal viewpoints for BBC Newsnight, British-American author and blogger Andrew Sullivan argues there are lessons to be learnt from Plato.
It happened to be aired by a BBC opinion program.

As usual InSanity - you're full of shit.



Why is it that I constantly have these angry little men trying to nip at my boot heels


If you are asking why FD posted what he did, it's because you posted some bullshit statement and I suppose he couldn't resist the chance to slap your ignorant mugg. Not sure where you got angry from, he seemed calm to me.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 1:08:35 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

The purpose of the EC has been explained before as how they do their job.

I think it's been mentioned once or twice.


quote:

Your words make it sound as if they are totally outside of each states voters, making a decision contrary to the people who selected them.

The words about entrusting the choice to a "small group of people ... most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations" are Alexander Hamilton's, not mine. His mention of "complicated investigations" indicates that he expected the electors to think and decide for themselves, not simply ratify the popular vote in their state. That extraconstitutional requirement came later, at the state level.

All that aside, the Spectator piece you chose to highlight attempts to sell a bill of goods about how Trump's ascendancy represents a fanfare for the common man. I don't find that a credible claim when more Americans voted against Trump than for him. Ymmv, of course.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 1:44:56 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline
PFH Strangely compelling clip I actually watched it twice.

Who is this Plato fellow anyway was he the one in Popeye. Never read his books-writings..or what remains of them....has anyone here?
Now, is it Plato or Solon that is responsible for my all time favourite quote....let me see

Thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age, said: ‘O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you.’ Solon in return asked him what he meant. ‘I mean to say,’ he replied, ‘that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you why. There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes.’


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sages_of_Greece

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solon


< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 1/20/2017 1:50:56 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 2:07:07 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The purpose of the EC has been explained before as how they do their job.

I think it's been mentioned once or twice.


quote:

Your words make it sound as if they are totally outside of each states voters, making a decision contrary to the people who selected them.

The words about entrusting the choice to a "small group of people ... most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations" are Alexander Hamilton's, not mine. His mention of "complicated investigations" indicates that he expected the electors to think and decide for themselves, not simply ratify the popular vote in their state. That extraconstitutional requirement came later, at the state level.

All that aside, the Spectator piece you chose to highlight attempts to sell a bill of goods about how Trump's ascendancy represents a fanfare for the common man. I don't find that a credible claim when more Americans voted against Trump than for him. Ymmv, of course.
But the folks that voted against him aren't the common man...at least, not for the most part. They're the Hollywood elites, the academic elites, the "victims" of society and/or white men and/or corporations and/or the wealthy.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 2:08:12 PM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11241
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

If you are asking why FD posted what he did, it's because you posted some bullshit statement and I suppose he couldn't resist the chance to slap your ignorant mugg. Not sure where you got angry from, he seemed calm to me.


Aw now! You're just setting me up to break my heart again, aren't you

_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 2:43:48 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But the folks that voted against him aren't the common man...at least, not for the most part. They're the Hollywood elites, the academic elites, the "victims" of society and/or white men and/or corporations and/or the wealthy.



I can't help but think how this makes an even stronger case for The Peoples' Republic of California to just go ahead and leave.

I'm wondering where Hollywood got the idea that their values (sleeping your way into a role, child molestation, child "abuse" in the way child actors are "damaged" as they grow up under the lights, drugs, promiscuity, socialism) line up with the rest of America.

True enough, Hollyweird is able to influence Americans, but I think they don't enjoy the sway they used to. I think this election kind of proved that.

So, let the Californians see if they can do it any better. Then, build the fucking wall from Oregon to Texas and charge Hollyweird a 35% import tax on all their products.

I won't be spending any more money with them except with the new "Faith Friendly" tags or with movies that I have a high level of confidence aren't going to have me leaving the theater, thinking: "There's two hours - and $18 - of my life that I'll never get back." The last time I went to a movie theater and didn't have to force myself to sit through the movie, telling myself: "It has to get better than this!" was when I went to the local dinner theater ($48 per person) and saw "42" the week it opened.

Screw Hollyweird and screw the left that seems to think that their way is the only way. It's gonna be a great four years!

By the way, for those that want to know how I got to this point: It's Obama's fault.



Michael


_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 3:23:39 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
This is a fascinating little video. A few things are weird; others seem more plausible. Trump's rise to the presidency is attributable to the dynamics of democracy themselves ....
Anyway, well worth the three minutes' viewing, I thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzo9qXLFUo


Damn, that is chilling in it's accuracy!



And a broken clock is right twice every 24 hours.

Plato wasn't entirely flawless in his wisdom, and, he was a teacher ("them that can....do....them that can't....teach"). Born to wealth, Plato didn't have many true responsibilities in life and, while Socrates was a Mentor ("The Socratic Method"), Plato "thought" well.....but his actions and deeds were at best, nominal.

He didn't invent anything, he didn't create anything, he didn't build anything but his opinions were sought after because (Socratic method) he "thought"......well.

Much like the well known phrase; "....on the shoulders of giants...." those that followed, benefited from his (very) sage counsel.....he was at best, a theorist.....not someone who actually.....ever did anything.

(At all).

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 3:27:25 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

It's gonna be a great four years!


Seriously - how can you see that? Do you honestly believe that Trump will be an effective President? What is your vision of the USA in, say, two years time?

Be careful how you answer. I shall do a screen print of your response, and look at it two years from now.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 3:43:59 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline
this will end only one way -Scorched earth - and I told you on your thread Obedient mob - fair guffawed at that - they truly are unaware arnt they sixpackmalarkey your name is too difficult for me to type correctly all the time...but if the 6 pack reference offends you let me know and i will endeavor to try type your username verbatim...with wonky spelling :)

clip time any guesses what i am going to go with?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPiu4QmJyWs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLBHmoSGcvE



(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump - 1/20/2017 4:01:37 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
I have no idea what you're talking about, WD - but please be assured that I've never once felt offended by anything you've said. :-)

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Plato explains the rise of Trump Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109