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RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 11:45:57 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

In America tax returns are private, trump is under no obligation to turn them over, however obama was under obligation to turn over his bc.
Obama was not obligated to turn over his birth certificate, it is a matter of public record and anyone can look it up and there is not even a custom of Presidents producing one.

As for Trump’s tax return you’re correct it is private but it is a longstanding custom, since Truman, of Presidents producing their tax returns for the sake of transparency, to show there is nothing to hide. Trump not producing his seems to say; “I have something to hide”.





and showing the tax return to show nothing to hide is a fools koolaid.

On the other hand showing a bc is a legal requirement when questioned and has nothning to do with custom or practice.

So obviously there was a chance Obama was not legally an Ill. or US senator.

Get a grip man. Trump is a complete fraud, demagogue and an insecure thin-skinned charlatan with a basket of deplorable conflicts of interest..

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 11:55:05 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrchofDrk

quote:

They overestimated the American voters.


LOL .. The American voters voted for Hillary by 3 million votes. The Electoral college installed Trump the Chump




But that is an ignorant conclusion, since even if the EC did not exist each states have equal representation and trump would have still won based on the raw structure of representation. Maybe you can get amendments to give california 500 electoral votes ya think?







So now I am suppose to prejudice geography. 17 states could elect a demagogue and they damn near could have this time.

Define 'raw structure of representation.'

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 11:56:21 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm no Clinton supporter. But, with yet another thread . . .

I'm just amazed that, after all this time, after her career is finished, people are still campaigning against her. Like they don't know any other way.


Butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters want us to stop talking about her...

But the point is, that's...all you've got.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 4:40:44 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrchofDrk

quote:

They overestimated the American voters.


LOL .. The American voters voted for Hillary by 3 million votes. The Electoral college installed Trump the Chump




But that is an ignorant conclusion, since even if the EC did not exist each states have equal representation and trump would have still won based on the raw structure of representation. Maybe you can get amendments to give california 500 electoral votes ya think?







So now I am suppose to prejudice geography. 17 states could elect a demagogue and they damn near could have this time.

Define 'raw structure of representation.'


Everyone should know this from the day they are old enough to vote.




Electoral College Fast Facts

Established in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, the Electoral College is the formal body which elects the President and Vice President of the United States. Each state has as many "electors" in the Electoral College as it has Representatives and Senators in the United States Congress, and the District of Columbia has three electors. When voters go to the polls in a Presidential election, they actually are voting for the slate of electors vowing to cast their ballots for that ticket in the Electoral College.
http://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/

Once the vote tips 51/49% 19.8Million/19MIllion, Californias 55 electors all vote for hillary, it does not matter if every person California voted for Hillary, 100/0% "55 votes" will be entered for the election.

So whether its 19.8 million that voted for hillary in california or its 38.8million (every person) in California that voted for Hillary it goes down as 55 Electoral votes for Hillary. "equal representation between the states"

If you need that to be changed then you need to change our form of government at its core-roots and I will vote against it.

There is nothing unfair about 'that part" of the system.






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/23/2017 4:53:04 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 4:47:22 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		That map is total asswipe. Period, End of joke end of nutsuckerism.

The at 51% all must vote one way was not the core nor the roots of our government.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 4:52:21 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		and over the edge lefty nutsuckers like you is precisely the reason trump is the new el preze' Dante!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 6:19:30 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

and over the edge lefty nutsuckers like you is precisely the reason trump is the new el preze' Dante!


Oh right Trump won because of anyone who disagrees with you on the Internet.
I'm in awe of how lost you are.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 7:20:42 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		I am not your probklem but your lack of understanding about the constitution of this nation is.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 7:41:22 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Electoral College Fast Facts

Established in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, the Electoral College is the formal body which elects the President and Vice President of the United States. Each state has as many "electors" in the Electoral College as it has Representatives and Senators in the United States Congress, and the District of Columbia has three electors. When voters go to the polls in a Presidential election, they actually are voting for the slate of electors vowing to cast their ballots for that ticket in the Electoral College.
http://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/

Once the vote tips 51/49% 19.8Million/19MIllion, Californias 55 electors all vote for hillary, it does not matter if every person California voted for Hillary, 100/0% "55 votes" will be entered for the election.

So whether its 19.8 million that voted for hillary in california or its 38.8million (every person) in California that voted for Hillary it goes down as 55 Electoral votes for Hillary. "equal representation between the states"

If you need that to be changed then you need to change our form of government at its core-roots and I will vote against it.

There is nothing unfair about 'that part" of the system.



I would posit (and I have, recently) that a change to the EC that I would support is one where the delegates get meted out proportionately.

Of course, the PPLs don't want to hear that.



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 9:11:57 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		It is not an EC deal per se. its a state legislature issue, the founding fathers never considered nor intended a winner take all EC. The first state to go winner take all was 1824 and the entire US was not winner take all instead of proportional until 1876.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 9:37:07 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Electoral College Fast Facts

Established in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, the Electoral College is the formal body which elects the President and Vice President of the United States. Each state has as many "electors" in the Electoral College as it has Representatives and Senators in the United States Congress, and the District of Columbia has three electors. When voters go to the polls in a Presidential election, they actually are voting for the slate of electors vowing to cast their ballots for that ticket in the Electoral College.
http://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/

Once the vote tips 51/49% 19.8Million/19MIllion, Californias 55 electors all vote for hillary, it does not matter if every person California voted for Hillary, 100/0% "55 votes" will be entered for the election.

So whether its 19.8 million that voted for hillary in california or its 38.8million (every person) in California that voted for Hillary it goes down as 55 Electoral votes for Hillary. "equal representation between the states"

If you need that to be changed then you need to change our form of government at its core-roots and I will vote against it.

There is nothing unfair about 'that part" of the system.



I would posit (and I have, recently) that a change to the EC that I would support is one where the delegates get meted out proportionately.

Of course, the PPLs don't want to hear that.



Michael

They are proportionate according to an algorithm, what you're suggesting amounts to the same thing as a direct popular vote and is no longer equal representation and contrary to the Constitution and design


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 10:28:11 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		It does not amount to a direct popular vote, the only thing that amounts to that is a ------direct popular vote (as it should be) but states are apportioned reps by an algorithm. So, the EC should be set back to the way it was intended as a slavery artifact or we should do direct popular vote.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/23/2017 10:40:29 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

Please try not to put words in my mouth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

They are proportionate according to an algorithm, what you're suggesting amounts to the same thing as a direct popular vote and is no longer equal representation and contrary to the Constitution and design



Fuck the "algorithm". They're NOT awarded proportionately. All but two states are "winner-take-all".

What I was saying is ... Let's take The Peoples' Republic of California:

If Clinton got (I'm just throwing out numbers, here) 11 million votes and Trump got 10 million, under my plan, Clinton would get 28 of California's EC votes and Trump would get 27.

If Clinton got 15 million and Trump got 6 million, she'd get ... I don't know ... 68% of the EC votes?

Got it?



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/24/2017 5:00:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And thats the way the EC was set up originally, and intended to work. with a slight aberration in the way the EC and the congress apportionment calcs.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/24/2017 5:13:51 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Fuck the "algorithm". They're NOT awarded proportionately. All but two states are "winner-take-all".

What I was saying is ... Let's take The Peoples' Republic of California:

If Clinton got (I'm just throwing out numbers, here) 11 million votes and Trump got 10 million, under my plan, Clinton would get 28 of California's EC votes and Trump would get 27.

If Clinton got 15 million and Trump got 6 million, she'd get ... I don't know ... 68% of the EC votes?

Got it?


Trump got about 40% of california's popular vote...he should have got 40%of california's e.c. votes.
It might be interesting to see how the election would have come out if the e.c. had been proportianal? Anyone want to dedicate a half hour to crunching the numbers...perhaps it has already been done.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/24/2017 5:18:51 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Real0ne


They are proportionate according to an algorithm, what you're suggesting amounts to the same thing as a direct popular vote and is no longer equal representation and contrary to the Constitution and design

No you are making shit up again. There is no place in the constitution or in any of the discussions about the constitution that even sugest that winner take all was the plan. If you were to acquaint yourself with the federalist and anti-federalist papers this issue is discussded extensively. The purpose of the e.c. is to keep the reins of power in the hands of the elilte.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/24/2017 9:33:56 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr



Please try not to put words in my mouth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

They are proportionate according to an algorithm, what you're suggesting amounts to the same thing as a direct popular vote and is no longer equal representation and contrary to the Constitution and design



Fuck the "algorithm". They're NOT awarded proportionately. All but two states are "winner-take-all".

What I was saying is ... Let's take The Peoples' Republic of California:

If Clinton got (I'm just throwing out numbers, here) 11 million votes and Trump got 10 million, under my plan, Clinton would get 28 of California's EC votes and Trump would get 27.

If Clinton got 15 million and Trump got 6 million, she'd get ... I don't know ... 68% of the EC votes?

Got it?



Michael


Yeh youd have to knock the representatives down to 30 for 54% of the population actually voted for your 31c v 6t example would be like EC 21 clinton 9 trump I suppose.

One positive effect if it was done that way would certainly get more people involved in voting because that way their vote to abstain would truly not count.

That method would not abolish the algorithm but problem you run into is then the house and senate representation would come under fire the same way and they could vote your laws in with only 1 person, maybe 3 representing the whole state.

Changing the EC which at its core changes 'representation' has wide spread reprecussions.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/24/2017 9:45:16 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline


I fucking HATE math. I suck at it and I hate it, but I was curious as to how my "plan" (which I haven't really fine-tuned yet) might work.

First things first: HATING math (and not being very good at it), I'm sure I took a few too many liberties. let me explain what I did:

I found a website that gave the percentages of votes. I double-checked and from what I could tell only "the big two" got percentages into double digits. As a result, no third-party candidates were awarded E.C. votes (and Utah had like 12 candidates on the ballot).

Okay. So, I took the percentages and, just like we learn in grade school, when there was a decimal that was <.5, I rounded down. If it was +.5, I rounded up.

I took the percentage and multiplied it into the number of E.C. votes ex: 11 E.C. votes X .61 = 6.71. I rounded up to 7, obviously.

In cases where the voting was very close and neither candidate got 50% and the state had an even number of E.C. votes, I awarded a simple majority to the winner ex: in New Hampshire, there are 4 E.C. votes. Clinton won the popular vote 47.6 to 47.2 (percentages). I awarded 3 votes to Clinton and 1 to President Trump. The she-cunt won the state, after all.

In states where there were obvious routes, stayed as true as possible.

Ex: D.C. went 93% Clinton. I gave her all three E.C. votes. Abalama was 63% President Trump. I gave him 6 of the possible nine E.C. votes.

The result?

Clinton: 270
President Trump: 268



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: For all the butthurt crybaby Clinton supporters - 1/24/2017 10:33:34 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Which should have sent it to the house of representatives, as originally conceived.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 79
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