RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (Full Version)

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Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 7:38:47 AM)

I have been told I exude the "Bad Boy" persona ..... and I am sure some have called me an asshole ....... but once you get past the tough exterior which is there due to history repeating itself all too often you find a totally different person ..... when involved in relationships I very quickly will open up as long as my respect is given to me . I often tell a girl I am a complex yet simple man . your job is to figure that out and how to getpast the walls .... my job is to make you never want to leave once you do. I will keep my "Bad Boy" image as it has worked for me for 42 years ... and if that means I finish last well so be it ... someone has to belast I suppose. I will not waiver from who I am and how I do things. I once was told that I am not Master enough because the soft side comes out too much and I develop feelings . if thats the case then I suppose thats the case . too me I thinkit's a combination of Sadistic Master and Daddy Dom .. and like I said it works for me



Mercnbeth -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 7:48:12 AM)

quote:

Do nice guys and women reallly finish last?
No. Nice guys, and women, don't care where they finish.

People who finish last usually don't know who they are. They portray one persona when they meet, another while the relationship is new, another when it's failing, and another when it fails. It's the same with people who turn out to be frauds. They are so lonely and insecure they bait people to become friends offering an understanding but can't keep up the pretense over the long haul. Frauds can't be true to themselves because they really have no idea who that is. They are so busy living up to the image that they think will attract others they lose what's important, their integrity, honesty, and the ability to just "be themselves". They've been a social chameleon so long they don't know what color they are.

If you take the time to know yourself and what you want in life, inside or outside the lifestyle, you don't compromise your goals over time you strengthen them. You're comfortable with yourself so you don't need to compromise just to attract a friend or a lover.

"Nice" is a subjective term. It's not something to strive for any more than it's opposite. (Not nice?) Consistency should be the goal. Whether dominant or submissive or something in between. It's only when you try to be something for someone else that you end up disappointing yourself and the other person.



thetammyjo -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 7:52:59 AM)

I think a lot of people have difficulty separating what they fantasy about from the realities of life.

If you allow this fantasy to run how you chose a partner, I think it should be no surprise then when you are tried poorly and even abused when you join up with that person. That does not mean that I think it is the abused person's fault, just that they need to work on not letting their fantasy run the show when it comes to finding partners.

Sadly there are people out there who are very good at pretending to be nice when they are not nice at all.

I think it is always very risky and foolish to rush into things.

I have never been disappointed by taking a lot of time to get to know someone, train someone, and spending time with them. I have been disappointed when I've rushed into things.



juliaoceania -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 7:54:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

How important is it to you that your partner be a nice person to you, and not exude a "tough" image, when they are not scening with you? (if  


I do not date men that are not nice to me, and this means if I enter a dynamic with someone they will be nice to me. If not I will not stay. I like to be taken out to dinner, I like hand holding, I like flowers, I like candy, I like someone that will make me feel special. I even like doors held open for me... It doesn't mean I am in control that I like these things, it means that is what I like.

Even when we scene he is nice to me, even when he is pulling my hair and whipping my ass and slapping my face he is nice to me..we often laugh and joke when we scene. But I do what I am told too. We have our dynamic, it is different than other what other people have, and that's ok. I know some would think that it isn't Domly to open a door for a lesser creature such as me (tongue in cheek), but I was raised that the measure of a person is how they treat those who they have power over. I would not be with someone that was rude to service people either, it is a measure of their character in my mind how they treat a waitress for example.

This does not mean I am overly sensitive about being called a bitch, or being told to shut up or being told what to do... (although he has never told me to shut up, he has just said " who is the dom in this relationship?" To hush me up).

Everyone has a different personality, and what works for me will not work for another. In my mind someone that isn't trying to prove how much of a dom they are is more of one... other people like the tough bad boy, I am repulsed.. I have an attraction to nice men, they finish first... My Daddy is a prime example of this...



mistoferin -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:03:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
other people like the tough bad boy, I am repulsed..


Lol....I really expected your post to be coming from a different perspective. Don't look now julia but Sinergy's photo and many of his posts on self defense would place him squarely in many's stereotypical "tough guy" box. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's not a nice guy...but many people can never get past the "image" presented.



SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:08:24 AM)

misoferin: This is reassuring to hear, because while I can be sweet most all of the time, I have a definite independent streak that comes out mostly I guess, when discussing topics and what I've read. How I view something isn't always how another person does, and some might find that threatening, while I am just stating my point of view, not saying it is the "right" or "wrong" point of view. I guess I take that for granted in conversation, but some people don't ever want to discuss anything on an intellectual level. I don't argue with someone if I already know thier point of view is a closed case and they would want me to obey, period. But there are Dominants who do consider that "threatening" to a degree. I just consider it being able to have a conversation...

Also, I guess it does sort of melt my heart too, to see a big tough guy do something tender, like you said. There are "bad boys" who can be real pussycats, I know that. I guess I am referring to posturing and maybe not having the capability to be tender.

- Susan



SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:11:42 AM)

Maybe it's just me (but I doubt it) but I agree, julia. I am not a die-hard romantic, but I do like dinner, and I do like manners. I really, even with time, have not grown any fondness for names like: "bitch" or "cunt". I know some don't mind and even like them, but I just - well, don't I guess.

- Susan



SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:15:29 AM)

Great food for thought, Merc N Beth. Thanks!

- Susan



stanton -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:15:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Sadly there are people out there who are very good at pretending to be nice when they are not nice at all.



TRUE



SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:18:46 AM)

Tamer: I am not referring to "bad boys" who actually have a capacity to be tender. I am referring to "bad boys" who can't seem to let down their guard at all, ever, for anyone.

- Susan 



juliaoceania -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:19:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
other people like the tough bad boy, I am repulsed..


Lol....I really expected your post to be coming from a different perspective. Don't look now julia but Sinergy's photo and many of his posts on self defense would place him squarely in many's stereotypical "tough guy" box. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's not a nice guy...but many people can never get past the "image" presented.


OMG posts can be deceiving, but then again most third degree black belts do not walk around like cock of the block.. he is so unassuming to talk to and be around. He is confident, he is graceful in the way he moves too. He loves to dance. He loves movement.  He seems soft almost at times and he is gentle even when he slaps my face,.... weird but true. He used martial arts to rehabilitate himself physically when he was younger and he teaches self defense because it is something he feels postive and good about. He avoids confrontation. The best fight is the one we never have. He admires my pacifism, although he does not agree with it completely. He thinks of what he does with self defense to be a means of stopping violence... He abhors violence, and that is one of the biggest turn ons for me...smiles.


To me a bad boy is someone that looks like he might be on the wrong side of the law (even if he isn't) and possibly a charmer. Although Sinergy is definitely a charmer in his own way, he is not a bad boy at all. There have been several women he has taught self defense to that have told him he was the nicest man they ever met.. because that is just the way he is. He isn't gruff or tough. He is poised and articulate and has the presense of an intellectual college professor type...It is tickling my funny bone that you perceive him that way...and when he finishes moving and hooks up his PC I will have to show him this thread, or maybe read it to him..smiles/



SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:24:04 AM)

Well, julia if I do say so, I think he is also pretty bright. And there is some evidence that points out pretty clearly (that I've read) that really smart people tend to have more of the opposite sex's personality characteristics sometimes (sensitivity might be one of those things, who knows)?

I am not saying men are generally insensitive, either (maybe that they tend to show it less, though, than women, or in different ways). 

And people, it was just an article I read. So please, no flames about that. Like anything else, I am sure it could be debated ad infinitum.

- Susan



Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:28:40 AM)

I have recently read an article on levels of such feeling where some men have the capability of having "womenly" emotions and some do not ... now I gotta find it to post so other will understand what Iam talking about ..... ughhhhhh



Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:31:19 AM)

http://www.livereal.com/relationship_arena/deidaflash.htm

this is the link I have ... someone opened my eyes to this . it makes alot of sense to me . and since I am ever evolving in this life I am starting to understand it more . if it helps anyone out your welcome to it



Bearlee -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:33:10 AM)


Your thread has me wondering about my youth.  It seems to me that especially young women are drawn to 'bad boys'.  I certainly was.  I wonder if, before we discover 'this lifestyle' it is a way to address the yearning for Dominance we know nothing about?  Perhaps it is these overbearing men who first let us feel 'small' or 'submissive'; dominated.
 
Just a thought.  I'm sure happy I finally outgrew it... it's not a healthy way to go about life.
 
Good question!
bearlee



mistoferin -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:35:52 AM)

I wasn't flaming...lol. I was just pointing out that everyone might have a different perception of what a "tough guy" or "bad boy" is. While julia knows Sinergy personally and doesn't see that in him...one can't escape the fact that on this screen at least, he does have a "tough guy" quality about him in a Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson kind of way. What I am saying is that sometimes people are so intimidated by the "image" that they automatically assume someone is a "bad guy" because they never get far enough past that image to find out. He could be the nicest guy on the planet...but there will be some who will just see the tough guy.

My ex was like this. He was a very good looking, construction worker. Well tanned and muscled, long gorgeous hair, bright smile, goatee and the bluest eyes you ever saw. He was once "Mr. October" in a beefcake calendar. Women would fawn over that image. Take that same man and put him in denim and leathers for a weekend camping trip and suddenly women were pulling small children out of his path.



SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:36:59 AM)

Thanks for posting that article, Tamer - it is right generous of you. I am going to read it!

- Susan



SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:38:17 AM)

Ha! Yeah, I know what you mean, mistoferin, about a construction worker image.

- Susan



BenignPlague -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:41:46 AM)

Thanks all for reading, and great postings, Susan.

It was certainly refreshing to read the couple of references to "boy scouts" as I'm an Eagle Scout myself.  Often, the contradiction referenced in an earlier reply between the gentleman and the sadist is a tough one to balance out.  Perhaps it is my novelty to this lifestyle and part of my own journey of incorporating the various aspects of my personality together that is simply solved by furthering my self-exploration.... I stray.  I'll try to stay on topic.

A quick glance at my profile photo will make it clear that there is no way I could be confused for a "tough guy" by physical appearance.  There has been a lot of discussion in this...(still new to the forums, "stream"?) about looking past the imposing exterior to the sweet guy or gal behind, however, very little about the opposite.  From experience, people always seem shocked and sometimes confused when they see a relatively unintimading person take the reigns of a conflict or situation, like the big muscular guy can have a big hard, but a...well, let's say average looking guy can't have a stronger backbone.

Am I alone in this experience, or have others shared similar ones?

Aa



SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 8:42:20 AM)

Bearlee: I guess I dated a "bad boy" in college. Except once I got to know him, he really wasn't; he was actually self-destructive. He was an awful lot of fun, but really did have alcohol abuse issues (at the time, I did too, so we got along really well, since at least the first half of our evenings involved bar hopping, and after that we were usually too drunk to take much all that seriously anyway). He also had a terrific sense of humor and was smart, and had a great sense of adventure.

He never hit me, but did enjoy sort of "rough sex" (before I had ever even heard of bdsm). And he did get into brawls with other guys on more than once occasion, and I had to beg him to stop the fighting. It was always over something minor. I liked him a lot, maybe even loved him, but ended up feeling like I was babysitting sometimes, too.
Please, no flames, anyone. That was just my own personal experience. 

- Susan



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