RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last?

RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (Full Version)

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SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 9:30:05 AM)
Well, if poeple can't be kind to eachother in bed (even if their version of being "kind to eachother" involves a sadisitcially oriented scenario, for instance) then there isn't much hope for being kind out of bed, either. That's just my take on things, though. - Susan

ClassAct2006 -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 9:35:37 AM)
I hope I'm compliant and sweet but I am not into tough guys. Caring but firm dominance is good. I prefer men who appear confident but are known to be nice, reliable, consistent, firm but kind, smiley, helpful, accommodating etc. I thought this would be about the title - finishing last. People who are good and kind (whether dominant or submissive) generally do best and in a sense finish first in life. No one wants a boss or an employee or a friend who is tough and nasty and always in fights. That has nothing to do with the dominance I go for. It is much more successful for a dominant man's power to come from his ability to make people like him or respect him and indeed to control them in that way.

SCORPIOXXX -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 9:40:32 AM)
Right you are Susan... There is something to be said for "consistency", for "dependability", even within a multi-faceted personality.

SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 9:41:15 AM)
There certainly is. -Susan

gypsyssoul -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 10:06:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee Your thread has me wondering about my youth. It seems to me that especially young women are drawn to 'bad boys'. I certainly was. I wonder if, before we discover 'this lifestyle' it is a way to address the yearning for Dominance we know nothing about? Perhaps it is these overbearing men who first let us feel 'small' or 'submissive'; dominated. Just a thought. I'm sure happy I finally outgrew it... it's not a healthy way to go about life. Good question! bearlee ok .. its my off day and you all got me thinking .. no fair i am not suppose to do anything today ...:: smiles but i keep going back to what bearlee wrote i agree .... god hindsight is 20 /20 i will go for the guy in jeans, tan and a tank on a bike anyday over the suit guy .. its just what attracts you ... maybe ? i don't think nice people finish last ... it just takes a little more time to get thiers in the end ~~blessings

Bearlee -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 11:11:07 AM)
LOL... gypsyssoul, that's the kind of guy I used to be attracted to; but I grew up. I'm considerably older than you are, don't forget. And anyway...it really never was so much about what he wears (although anymore I think grownups don't wear t-shirts and tennies EVERYWHERE), it was always more his 'attitude'. Bad boys were just that: BAD. I'm really thinking I used to see bullying, arrogance, domineering behavior...perhaps selfish, too... as Dominance. But...I was very young, too. (finally)

stockingluvr54 -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 11:23:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sunshine119 I don't understand it, but many of my female friends are always chasing guys that you know are going to smash them to pieces once they've used them up. I don't understand that desire at all. Amen to that! That's pretty much what I've noticed over the years? Or at least the women I'm attracted to seem to be blind to the sincere honest nice guy and go for the macho guy who treats his women like crap. This is a real general/vague statement but I think I've seen it more so than not? Susan....my answer would be yes....I feel nice guys(for the most part) finish last...jmho

SexyRed -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 12:00:51 PM)
What a great thread...I have been pondering this same thought myself as it applies to men. I have always, always been attracted to the stereotypical "bad boy" ever since I was a kid. I always knew about my submissive side even though I was a strong woman and so I assume I felt that there was an inherent "danger" in the bad boys and that they would be the ones to take me and tie up and do whatever they wanted to do. At the same time, however, I never had any intellectual or emotional connection with the bad boys, they were not capable of it. As I got older and entered into adult BDSM relationships, my problem was, and still is, meeting someone where the whole persona is balanced. Basically, I do want a nice guy who treats me well and is socially adept and who genuinely likes people and functions well in society and within a relationship. Sadly, I have found the same dynamic as in the early childhood years, I am still attracted to the assholes and yet I have the most exciting times with them. As for the many nice men I have met who would treat me well, I am upset that I never seem to be attracted to them on the level that I seek. I actually married the quintessential "nice guy". He was my best friend and treated me like a Princess. However, we did not have the extraordinary sexual connection that I have had. I left him (for other reasons as well) and went for the "bad boy" as my next relationship. He was amazing only in the physical and BDSM sense, but turned out to be a total bastard. I believe that many women, including me, often try to change the "bad boy" and that never works. Yes, I have been to therapy about this and yes, I am very self aware. But, I hope that I just have not met that Mr. Nice Guy/Dom/Master YET and that someday my bad record will be broken.

scottjk -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 12:02:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s http://www.livereal.com/relationship_arena/deidaflash.htm this is the link I have ... someone opened my eyes to this . it makes alot of sense to me . and since I am ever evolving in this life I am starting to understand it more . if it helps anyone out your welcome to it <grunts and scratches> Okay, so I had to do the caveman bit! :) Tamer, I'm going to do you one better and point to a book that I'm trying to use as a guide for my life. Let me tell you, it isn't easy either. I'm pleased that you managed to post that link, though. Deida wrote another book to for the women, so I'll include that. Both books are out of print, but it's still easy to get them. I don't buy into the yoga spirituality stuff, too..... 'squishy' for my masculinity, but, it provides a decent guide to life, men and women. Better than most that I've seen. Men: The Way of the Superior Man http://www.deida.info/?page_id=3132&sitemapnode_id=3103&catalogitem_id=3502 Women: It's a Guy Thing http://www.deida.info/?page_id=3132&sitemapnode_id=3103&catalogitem_id=3504 These books aren't the last word, I know, they are something like a condensed version of his overall writings, and because of the information in them, they are worth five times the asking price in my opinion. To sum them up, The Way gives you a guide as a man on how to live, what women want and why they do what they do. The book has had a profound effect on me emotionally, if not life changing. (I'm more stubborn than most) Guy Thing gives you a guide on why guys do what they do, and what they want and need, and from reports from friends (mostly subs), it has had a profound effect on them, emotionally and socially. Personally, I feel these are great reading and can be a great foundation for ANY relationship. They provide an understanding that translates to patience. ;) I'm not going to provide a book report, though. I'll just say that I DO understand women better now than ever before, I'm not nearly as frustrated with them as I have been now. I know now, from reading and correlating that to experience, what women really want, even though they have a horrible time expressing it to men. ;) You see, we've been blinded by the concept of 'equality' in our culture. "We all the same, so it's easy to understand each other. Since we're all the same, and you seem to be a jerk, that's because you chose to be a jerk." Bzzzt!, thanks for playing! Come again soon! What that means that if we buy into the equality so much, we tend to think that women think like men, and therefore, the confusion is deliberate. But that isn't quite true. Men do have something that women want and need, BUT it's not what other men need in general. The reverse is true as well. That's NOT equal. Two identical puzzle pieces will not fit each other. :)

MistressSassy66 -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 12:07:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO This is probably one of those questions that will make some of the men say things like: "Christ! What do women want, anyway"? and throw things at the wall, perhaps, in frustration - but here I go anyway...asking my stupid question. Question:Female submissives and slaves - and males submissives and slaves as well: How important is it to you that your partner be a nice person to you, and not exude a "tough" image, when they are not scening with you? (if the scene includes them not being so nice, for whatever reason)? I ask because I've received the impression from reading some posts lately, that many females, especially who identify as submissives and slaves, as well as some male submissives and slaves, are genuinely seeking the all-around "tough guy" (or gal) (possibly described as an A__ole) type of personality, not just someone who exudes a healthy leadership kind of character, and is Dominant. Please don't flame this thread (okay)? It's just a question, and a real one. Thanks. For some people, exuding a tough guy image is really important to them on a 24-7 basis. And I do realize this really is part of some people's kink. And that is fine, really (it's not my relationship, it theirs). I mean they want some guy who looks like if you mess with Him he just might rip you to shreds and not think twice. I'll admit there are aspects to this that I do find comforting (as long as I am not consistently on the receiving end of it, I guess). It's a preference. I do want someone tough, but mentally tough, too, not simply someone who simply exudes a genuinely threatening persona to all humans in general, I guess. I am probably being as clear as mud (but am trying, really to be clear). Personally, I love the quiet confidence I guess what I qualify as "my kind of Dominant" can exude. I'd know if I "crossed a line" I'd hear about it, but they are not swaggerring and calling me "my bitch" and pummeling my face 24/7. They aren't saying things like: "Hey bitch, where's my coffee?" - all the time. When I fantasize about a great Dominant, they do definitely expect me to comply with their wishes, but I guess they are aren't necessarlily always crude about it (though sometimes would be okay I guess). There's no question, though, that they are the ones in control. I might even be afraid of them, at times. They occasionally, if they ever do say those crude things, want to do tender things too, like take me to dinner or just cuddle and hold me. And yes, I do realize it's not all about Me, but about Him, for anyone who is wondering. I am not dogging people who want a really tough all-the-time kinda guy (or gal) - but, I guess I prefer it if I know that someone can exude some real sensitivity, and they direct it my way once in awhile, if not more often than that. But I think not all people feel this way, and I am not saying either is better, just a matter of taste. I think I may have Switch tendencies (but that is not the reason I think I feel the way I do about this) - and I am concluding I'd probably also prefer a definitely hetero male, but sensitive male submissive - somebody who can do "give and take", not just all "take" and not all "give", either. Again, there are people seeking a complete abject slave boy 24-7, who cowers all the time in fear of their very presence, but I suppose that is a matter of taste as well. I imagine with someone like that, we might have a hard time getting through a restaurant dinner out in public. *So, what are your thoughts, ladies? And from the men too...if anyone wants to reply to this thread, I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone out there. I am taking for granted here, I suppose, that most Dominant men and Masters want a compliant, sweet girl, so I guess this question is for submissives and slaves - but I am including males submissives as well as Dominant men (if they want to answer)- even if some assume most male submissives are looking for a _itch (I think this might be a generalization about male submissives). Thanks for any replies, and for reading this post. - Susan I am a very nice person and all My worms are nice...I dont think A/any feel that W/we have finished last. Its just takes time to make a connection. I have been on CM almost 2 years(?) and have met countless people,some lasted some didnt 1 I met from here has been with Me almost as long has I have been on CM.

crouchingtigress -> RE: Do nice guys and women really finish last? (7/25/2006 12:10:07 PM)
Dont you dare believe something so silly...you create your own life! thoughts create words, words create actions, actions create your personality and your personality creates your destiny....[image]http://bbs.mediumpimpin.com/images/smilies/ppk.gif[/image]

TreSwank -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 12:11:12 PM)
Even if you're a good-looking guy, a nice guy will finish last unless he finds his niche. For instance, the kind of girl who has traditionally been referred to as a "fag-hag" by popular culture is a better target for nice, non-threatening boys, because they aren't seeking out men who ooze machismo and dominance. For a nice boy to succeed in the dating pool, whether it be BDSM or vanilla, he has to aggressively market himself towards his most likely successes.

gypsyssoul -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 12:21:32 PM)
quote: Bad boys were just that: BAD. I'm really thinking I used to see bullying, arrogance, domineering behavior...perhaps selfish, too... as Dominance. But...I was very young, too. (finally) :: smiles but some of these people .. with that bad boy/bikers image have been some of the nicest men /people i have ever met ... the kind that will bend backwards to help... i am saying just as i preferr ... dark hair and tanned over pale and blonde ... everyone has an image .. could be the bartender in me ... :: grins but i still agree with you that .. the image is ... the bad boy .. dom hey as long as everyone places nice ... and no one gets ... hurt ...

SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 12:26:47 PM)
scottjk: Thanks for more reading material, I can't seem to get enough of that, and do appreciate it! Everyone who wrote in and replied: Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate all everyone has written. - Susan [:)]

caitlyn -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 12:51:47 PM)
Massive generalization of casual observations ... [;)] On a low/high rating scale ... if a girl is: Wisdom - High Intelligence - Low Will have several bad experienced before understanding that you can't reform bad boys. Wisdom - High Intelligence - High Will usually break even the cold hearts of bad boys. Wisdom - Low Intelligence - Low Is not very likely to fall for bad boys. Wisdom - Low Intelligence - High Is easy prey for bad boys.

popeye1250 -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 1:07:58 PM)
Susan, great subject and thread as usual! I don't think being kind, polite, having manners or being a Gentleman ever goes out of style. It's been my observation in life that the so-called "tough guys-bad boys" are the ones who finish last in life. They don't live life life rides over them. Life is the hammer and they're the nail. Most of that type I've had the misfortune to run into in my life just didn't seem to be good with things like keeping a job, finances, investments, changed "friends" a lot, being a good provider and a lot of them had "legal problems." Very immature. In a word, Losers. ("Let me borrow $20 and I'll take you out to dinner!") About twenty years ago I was in a bar talking to this woman who I knew, not trying to pick her up or anything like that just talking. This "bad-boy" type comes over,(who we both knew,- the Police "knew him" too! (a real "Mr. Harley Davidson" type) horns in on the conversation and kind of "steals her away" from me though I really wasn't "after" her. Long story short, she gets knocked up by this clown, ends up in Sect 8 housing and on welfare. I heard the Sherriff went right to this bum's workplace with a Court Order to pay all back child support within 90 days or go to the "Crowbar Hotel." That must have been classic; "Here you go TOUGH GUY, you've been Served!" lol He was then working TWO full-time jobs to stay out of jail. And, no more Harley Davidson, he had to sell it! lolol I felt bad for the woman and her child. I'd be driving and see her wheeling the kid down the sidewalk and she'd always look away and down when she saw my truck. She was a nice person who got involved with a loser. (One time I mailed her a $50 bill anonymously.) There's no shortage of guys like that. In our lifestyle I don't think that there's any reason for truly "abusive" behavior. I see that kind of behavior as indicative of insecurity. And, it usually escalates into domestic abuse and violence. And a lot of them have sociopathic tendencies and some just don't like women.And yes, a lot of them have drug and/or alcohol problems. James Dean was an "image" and nothing more. Do some women just like being screwed over? It would appear so. Of course a Dom/Domme can and should be a nice person to their sub or slave. I like it when a woman "expects" me to open a door for her. That shows me that she "sees" me as a Gentleman. With privilidge comes responsibility. To my way of thinking a Dominant/Master is "responsible" for his sub/slave. For her safety, well being, health, happiness and all the things that go into wiiwd. I like it when a woman is on my arm in public as it shows to all that she is "mine." Would you rather be spanked by a "bad boy" who you know is going to leave you in the dust and couldn't care less about you or someone who you know cares about you and there could be a "future" with? Choose wisely. I know some real "macho" type guys. They're retired Firefighters, Cops, Military types. Almost to a person they're Gentlemen, would help a stranger, help charities, and are just all around nice guys. I'd rather be in a fight with a "biker" type that most of those guys.

SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 1:15:20 PM)
Great post from caitlyn! LOL and pretty observant! popeye: Well nice post I think. I guess the college guy I dated wasn't really a "bad boy", more like a "lost boy" w a very assertive and fun personality. He always had a job and always paid for dinner (I paid for drinks a lot, but didn't care about that). He would never have beat my really hard, or left me someplace with no ride home, etc. - he was basically responsible. I think his basic problems stemmed from his dad having shipped himoff to a military academy for high school, because he'd been less than "cooperative" at home, and it damaged him a bit emotionally. He was an okay guy, overall. He was always pretty good to me, but we gradually lost track of eachother... - Susan

agirl -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 1:17:57 PM)
Hello Susan, I have to say that when I met my Master, I thought he was a really NICE man....kind, helpful, warm and genuine. That was a long time ago.........he's still an extremely nice man ........but he's also one of the most dangerous men I've ever met. I still am not sure of his depths and I don't want to know. I'd probably scare myself silly, if I knew.....lol He could rip me to shreds, as you said, and not think twice about it.....if NEEDED..... and has on occasion. I'm still apprehensive around him and yet totally at home. He's not threatening in persona.....he has nothing to prove to the world in general. In my world this decent, loyal, reliable, consistant, caring, gentle and kind man is STILL fucking scary.....lol Regards, agirl

SusanofO -> RE: Do nice guys and women reallly finish last? (7/25/2006 1:24:12 PM)
agirl: Good point. It's what he means to you that counts. And I am not opposed to fear, necessarily, for myself, in moderation. There is a thread on this now in the "Ask a Master" section. It's a personal preference, and one I can see appreciating for myself (just haven't yet. I have little experience, but some). I know what you mean by not knowing someone's complete depths - that part is attractive to me also - it's nice to be with someone who is "deep" and also adds some mystery (but I also have to trust them, as I am sure you do, too). The ability to be kind counts for a lot with me - a lot. - Susan

MistressSassy66 -> RE: Do nice guys and women really finish last? (7/25/2006 1:30:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress Dont you dare believe something so silly...you create your own life! thoughts create words, words create actions, actions create your personality and your personality creates your destiny....[image]http://bbs.mediumpimpin.com/images/smilies/ppk.gif[/image] I have a Personality alright...and while its a great one...some road blocks happen that are out of our control...is that Fate or Destiny...A little of both I say.

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