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Just wondering - 3/3/2017 10:53:59 PM   
tamaka


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Status: offline 		Are there more corporations that benefit from us being sick or being healthy?

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 1:00:58 AM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline 		If I may present such an imposition . . .

The thing to do about it is to concern yourself with your own outside-of-economic self interest first.

You're likely make better decisions about other things if you've made better decisions about your own body in the first place, starting with diet intake.

Start with one to one and a half serving of fruit before anything else (pear, apple, peach, mango, grapes, blueberries, 20 others). After that a small-medium bowl of high quality white rice such as Thai Jasmine or Indian Basmati rice with a banana. You will make it to lunch on that, I guarantee. And you will have your 'morning business' done with earlier (after a week of this and the following) and be more clear-headed along the way.

Keep in mind that of the four great apes (Bonobo, Chimpanzee, Orangutan, Gorilla) the chimps are the only ones who even hunt prey at all, and that only occasionally. The largest and strongest of them, Gorillas sit there and eat leaves and herbs all day.

So then for lunch a mongo (i.e. large) salad of spinach and kale and the darkest red lettuce you can find, and herbs as alternated with basil or mint or other, with the usual suspects of a bit of tomato and cuke and green or red pepper, etc. If going 'full Gorilla,' make it more about the darkest green leaves, especially if your local market has dandelion leaves to throw into it. If salad dressing is a must, then good organic or unfiltered olive oil (the latter not being easy to find) shaken with unfiltered raw cider vinegar or balsamic vinegar is all you need.

Soak together sunflower seeds and a bit less than same amount of pumpkin seeds for 12-20 hours, drain, rinse, put by a northern-facing open window, drain once or twice a day. After two days, sprinkle on everything mentioned above.

Use garlic and onion a lot, the blood cleansers, both cooked an raw.

Buy a bottle of flax seed oil and a bottle of Bragg Liquid Aminos and spritz them or pour them on the beans and lentils and brown rice, the latter of which you should be having at least three times a week. Flax seed oil is a dispersant of build-up of all the bad fats and 'bad' cholesterol and and who knows whatever stupid things we've done to ourselves and our arteries. Fresh coconut and organic coconut oil contain the best saturated fat in the world, sorry to make the ladies scream there. It's the way of the world, the way of nature; If you want to eliminate the bad fat, the only way to do it is by replacing it with the good fat. Oils read on the labels of processes food are the oils to avoid. Processed food is to avoid.

Avocado and coconut and flax seed and olive oil are your friends, here. As some might have noticed, the body does not always let go of fat too readily, so it's down to personal choice as to the quality of that fat and its affect on the cardiovascular system. Avocado, coconut, flax seed, olive oil, . . . your friends. Soak chia seeds and flax seeds together; in only 5 minutes put 1-2 tablespoons of them into the blender with the fruit or veggie smoothie; there you go, omega-3 fatty acids your cardio loves all day.

In any case, the darkest greens (collards are pretty good too) have the best complementary combination of iron and calcium and magnesium and vitamin C, and lentils have more iron than anything.

After all that you could eat whatever you wanted at dinner and still be ten times better off. But if you've stuck to the earlier for at least three months, you'd find yourself not even wanting as much of the other stuff anyway.




< Message edited by Edwird -- 3/4/2017 1:06:12 AM >

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 1:18:05 AM   
Edwird


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If doing even half of that, it's hard to give a crap about the industrial/medical question much. The only reason I make noise about agrochem is because of what they do to the environment and their destructive nature to economics. Otherwise, who eats that crap?

I do, several times a year. But every day? To start the day? Jeebus. "Two sausage double bacon double cheese egg biscuits, large coffee," Three hours later; "Two double double everything bacon cheeseburgers, large fries and drink."

Well, no, just no.

< Message edited by Edwird -- 3/4/2017 1:44:42 AM >

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 1:36:31 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Being sick...much higher profit in monopoly or near monopoly medications. Big pharma, the most profitable industry of all.

How's this list:

1) Drugs

2) Prostitution

3) Defense

4) Oil

5) Sports

6) Gambling

7) Banking

8) Alcohol

9) Pornography

10) Entertainment

HERE

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 2:29:57 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Status: offline 		Wow Edwird.

I couldn't stomach anything of what you listed.
You can shove all those nasty seeds right where the sun don't shine.
If I ate a tenth of what you suggest, I'd be stinking the place out with flatulence.


Gimme a decent breakfast any day...



Too much?? Go for something smaller...



And no, I won't be back for seconds nor will I want a repeat a couple of hours later.
I'll guarantee you'll only want a light lunch.
By all means, have some fruit for an apperitif.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 3:06:27 AM   
Edwird


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Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline 		The first pic looks like the famous British 'fry up' I've come across on some occasions in British fiction books. After reading the details, I can understand why it it only came up on occasion.

But anyway, yeah tradition is more important than health, and shoves evolution out the door, any day.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 3/4/2017 3:10:37 AM >

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 3:28:17 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		FD Where are the potato scones – do you Englanders have those? Actually best I check for the square sausage – do you have those?

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 3:39:46 AM   
Edwird


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Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline 		BUT, if we're going there ...

This skinny runt could eat every and all to the last from the five different plates I ordered, back in the day.

Waffles or pancakes or French toast, my having to say "more butter, please" to the waitress at least five times (good luck it actually being butter), 2-3 eggs, bacon, sausage, hash browns or 'home fries,' grits ("more butter, please" this was hard for a ten yr.old to do, just saying, I felt like I was pushing the matter), two pieces of toast; "Ma'am?", "More butter, right?" If the syrup 'carafe' was full at the beginning, I might not have to bother the waitress about that item. I think I got ahold of the cream and poured that on half of it, too.


Only organic yellow grits for me now.



< Message edited by Edwird -- 3/4/2017 3:44:48 AM >

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 4:22:58 AM   
Kaliko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Are there more corporations that benefit from us being sick or being healthy?





I don't know actual numbers, but I would guess there are probably more corporations in existence to cater to the sick and all of their needs and conditions than to the healthy, who have relatively minor and inexpensive upkeep. So for that reason alone, I would say more corporations benefit from us being sick.


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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 5:25:27 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		FR to the OP. I'll say that corporations benefit most from healthy people who are convinced that they are sick.


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 6:01:13 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

The first pic looks like the famous British 'fry up' I've come across on some occasions in British fiction books. After reading the details, I can understand why it it only came up on occasion.

But anyway, yeah tradition is more important than health, and shoves evolution out the door, any day.



So I'm guessing you are freaking out on the health issues??
Well, I haven't seen any real proof that what you listed was much healthier.
In fact, eating a diet that gives you very excessive gas can't be good for your digestion or your health.
As for your 'healthy' oils... They make me feel ill.

The first pic is (allegedly) Britain's biggest breakfast at around 9,000 calories.
The second is more common with a tad more in portion size or split between two people.
They certainly aren't fiction and are very common in hotels, B&B's and just about every market and high street cafe across the nation.

Fwiw, I've been eating this stuff for over 40 years.
Sure, it needs cooking correctly - and not with a gallon of grease!
Grill or griddle the fresh tomatoes, sausages and bacon. Brush the black pudding and hash browns with a little sunflower oil and grill or dry-fry. Oven bake the onion rings (although these aren't 'standard' breakfast fare and neither are the fries). Use very little oil for fried eggs or have the eggs poached or scrambled instead.
Note: use good quality (hand made if possible) sausages and decent bacon [not that shitty/fatty streaky stuff that is prevalent in the US].

My LDL count has only recently reached 3.2; so by doing it right, it's not that unhealthy.
There's probably more crap in a standard McD's meal than in a good traditional English breakfast.


To answer WD: potato scones are sometimes part of a 'fry up' meal but not usually part of a traditional English breakfast.
The square sausage (known as 'lorne' sausage) is just standard sausage meat moulded and compressed into a square shape without a skin. Nothing special about it at all except it has slightly less cereal content than cheapo commercial sausage meat.
I've never had it served for breakfast; not even in Scotland.


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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 7:04:43 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		toasted roll and square sausages layered with a potato scone with some hp spunked in between the two tasty blighters -soda scones I love too...but i dislike eggs, mushrooms tomatoes, beans - i always toiled when i was england for a breakfast Black pudding is actually lovely too, like the wild haggis and those cylinder sausages yuck bar the Irish ones - i forget the brand...do they still make wee willie winkies?

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 7:10:30 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
After that a small-medium bowl of high quality white rice such as Thai Jasmine or Indian Basmati rice with a banana.

OMG! Sometimes when non-Asians eat rice, it's seriously like WTF! Banana and Rice? Eww! It's also interesting that in Asia, white rice is no longer see as a healthy thing to eat at all. Infact health advice is don't touch it at all.

If you had to eat rice, eat brown rice only.

This is my typical breakfast. Coconut Rice, with Anchovies, Chicken, Egg and lots of Sambal Chilli Sauce.



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 3/4/2017 7:20:50 AM >

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 7:24:58 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
potato scone

Are Potato scone the same as potato pancakes?

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 8:08:44 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Are there more corporations that benefit from us being sick or being healthy?





I would think healthy. The reason why is that the medical part of a company is usually just a small part of the overall company. GE does a lot more that make CT scanners, R/F rooms, and MRI's. Also, one of the effects of Obamacare has been the shutting down of independent imaging clinics. This has meant less new installs for medical imaging products and less turnover for medical imaging products. Hospitals do not have to upgrade as quickly because of the lack of competition.

And so it goes with a lot of medical equipment. A lot of adaptions are made from some other technology. Therapy equipment, movement equipment, lighter wheelchairs, robotics and prosthetic limbs, remote EKGs and the space program.


The other thing to consider is that healthy people purchase much of this kind of thing for sick people to make the healthy persons life easier. Don't get me wrong, it is nice for the sick person as well, but it is most for the healthy person.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 8:20:44 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		I am not sure wifey5 - I think so...do you know of them from yonder eastern lands?

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/1219633/potato-scones

then we have soda scones which are not bad either http://www.mortonsrolls.com/soda-scones/ Christ are all these scones Scottish/irish...what do you englanders call them Not to confused with waffles, potato fritters, nor indeed sultana/fruit/cherry scones - these being sweets desserts, kinda.

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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 8:25:30 AM   
Edwird


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Joined: 5/2/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
ORIGINAL: Edwird

The first pic looks like the famous British 'fry up' I've come across on some occasions in British fiction books. After reading the details, I can understand why it it only came up on occasion.

But anyway, yeah tradition is more important than health, and shoves evolution out the door, any day.

quote:

So I'm guessing you are freaking out on the health issues??


Not half. I've been to a doctor 30 years ago for a bashed hand. People guess me as 12 or more years younger than I am. What's to 'freak out' about?

quote:

Well, I haven't seen any real proof that what you listed was much healthier.


You wouldn't.

quote:

In fact, eating a diet that gives you very excessive gas can't be good for your digestion or your health.


So when you've no idea what you're talking about, just make shit up. Oh yes, this is a P&R forum, almost forgot. Where do you come up with this 'excessive gas' thing? What is your obsession about this phenomenon? Vegetarians have less likelihood of excessive gas or many other problems than those eating that awful stuff you promote. I've had no excessive gas in ages. Who's the one freaking out, here? One doesn't have to be vegetarian, just actually eating vegetables on a regular basis will help matters a lot. And there's proof in abundance on that. Ignorance is not something to be proud of.

quote:

As for your 'healthy' oils... They make me feel ill.


This from firsthand experience, I take it? You weren't even aware of them till my mention. There is plenty of proof of health benefits of all of them in any case.

quote:

The first pic is (allegedly) Britain's biggest breakfast at around 9,000 calories.
The second is more common with a tad more in portion size or split between two people.
They certainly aren't fiction and are very common in hotels, B&B's and just about every market and high street cafe across the nation.


The 9,000 calories being more than 4.5 day's of recommended intake. No wonder you guys aren't hungry at lunch. I suppose the healthier fare you mention is, what, only 3.5 day's worth?

I didn't say fry-ups were fiction, I said I was made aware of them by fiction books. Not every detail in fiction books is non-fact, did you know that? I guess not.

quote:

Fwiw, I've been eating this stuff for over 40 years.


I can tell, I'm sure a doctor can, too.

quote:

Sure, it needs cooking correctly - and not with a gallon of grease!
Grill or griddle the fresh tomatoes, sausages and bacon. Brush the black pudding and hash browns with a little sunflower oil and grill or dry-fry. Oven bake the onion rings (although these aren't 'standard' breakfast fare and neither are the fries). Use very little oil for fried eggs or have the eggs poached or scrambled instead.


Don't use too much oil to cook a whopping pile of animal fat-laden food; that makes it healthy. Got it. The world should know this, no question.

quote:

There's probably more crap in a standard McD's meal than in a good traditional English breakfast.


You would know from personal experience on both counts, I'm sure. I wouldn't, since ~30-35 years ago re McD's.




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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 8:44:10 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
ORIGINAL: Edwird


quote:

In fact, eating a diet that gives you very excessive gas can't be good for your digestion or your health.


So when you've no idea what you're talking about, just make shit up. Oh yes, this is a P&R forum, almost forgot. Where do you come up with this 'excessive gas' thing? What is your obsession about this phenomenon? Vegetarians have less likelihood of excessive gas or many other problems than those eating that awful stuff you promote. I've had no excessive gas in ages. Who's the one freaking out, here? One doesn't have to be vegetarian, just actually eating vegetables on a regular basis will help matters a lot. And there's proof in abundance on that. Ignorance is not something to be proud of.





My guess about the gas is that when you first change your diet you may fart a lot. After a while though (a few days, maybe a week) your digestive system adjusts and you just fart normally.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Edwird)
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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 11:02:55 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
ORIGINAL: Edwird

The first pic looks like the famous British 'fry up' I've come across on some occasions in British fiction books. After reading the details, I can understand why it it only came up on occasion.

But anyway, yeah tradition is more important than health, and shoves evolution out the door, any day.

quote:

So I'm guessing you are freaking out on the health issues??


Not half. I've been to a doctor 30 years ago for a bashed hand. People guess me as 12 or more years younger than I am. What's to 'freak out' about?

What's to freak out about??
I'll tell ya - a shit ton of greens and horrible-tasting nut kernels.
Not to mention oils made from said horrible-tasting kernels.
And yes, I've tried them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

Well, I haven't seen any real proof that what you listed was much healthier.


You wouldn't.

Why wouldn't I have heard of the 'goodeness' and health 'benefits' of said stuff??
It's no good eating good stuff if the taste of it makes you feel ill and nauseous.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

In fact, eating a diet that gives you very excessive gas can't be good for your digestion or your health.


So when you've no idea what you're talking about, just make shit up.

You don't watch much David attenborough then do you.
When he filmed gorillas munching all that greenery, the one thing he commented on was the excessive methane-style stinking gas that they produce constantly.
And when you think about it, all the ruminating animals that munch just green stuffs, they are the worlds biggest polluters of the world with methane gas generated by eating greenery.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Oh yes, this is a P&R forum, almost forgot. Where do you come up with this 'excessive gas' thing? What is your obsession about this phenomenon?

See above.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Vegetarians have less likelihood of excessive gas or many other problems than those eating that awful stuff you promote. I've had no excessive gas in ages.

You must be lucky.
I don't know more than maybe a dozen vegetarians and they all suffer with gas and they have to suppliment their diet with additives because they cannot get all the necessary vitamins, minerals and essential stuff from fruit and veg alone.
And don't say they do because there are some essential enzymes and stuff that is only found in red meat and cannot be artificially manufactured.
Every vegetarian I've met looks pale and pastey and not healthy-looking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Who's the one freaking out, here? One doesn't have to be vegetarian, just actually eating vegetables on a regular basis will help matters a lot. And there's proof in abundance on that. Ignorance is not something to be proud of.

I didn't say I didn't eat veggies.
In fact, all our other meals are all made from scratch with fresh ingredients.
But I couldn't stomach your list of shit for a breakfast.
And as Greta said - avoid white rice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

As for your 'healthy' oils... They make me feel ill.


This from firsthand experience, I take it? You weren't even aware of them till my mention. There is plenty of proof of health benefits of all of them in any case.

Absolutely from first-hand experience.
That's how I know they make me feel ill.

I don't deny that some of them have benefits - you didn't ask.
But like I said, it's no good if they make you feel ill having them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

The first pic is (allegedly) Britain's biggest breakfast at around 9,000 calories.
The second is more common with a tad more in portion size or split between two people.
They certainly aren't fiction and are very common in hotels, B&B's and just about every market and high street cafe across the nation.


The 9,000 calories being more than 4.5 day's of recommended intake. No wonder you guys aren't hungry at lunch. I suppose the healthier fare you mention is, what, only 3.5 day's worth?

C'mon now... be reasonable.
Your comment is just infantile.
And incidentally, there are many people that can and do eat a lot more than the RDA of stuff with no ill effects.
It depends on your metabolism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
I didn't say fry-ups were fiction, I said I was made aware of them by fiction books. Not every detail in fiction books is non-fact, did you know that? I guess not.

Maybe I read your post#6 from a different approach because it looked to me as if you'd only come across this in fiction books.
Obviously never been anywhere in the world where they serve 'full English breakfast'; which makes me wonder where you have been.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

Fwiw, I've been eating this stuff for over 40 years.


I can tell, I'm sure a doctor can, too.

You can tell?? How?
You got X-ray eyes? Coz you haven't looked at our profile and that doesn't give anything away.
So... That's just a wild guess on your part I take it??
Oh yeah.. I know, an armchair critic.

If it was sooo bad, why is my blood pressure very normal and my LDL levels barely a tad above 'absolutely ideal'??
My doctor and nutritionist are quite happy with my diet and results tyvm.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

Sure, it needs cooking correctly - and not with a gallon of grease!
Grill or griddle the fresh tomatoes, sausages and bacon. Brush the black pudding and hash browns with a little sunflower oil and grill or dry-fry. Oven bake the onion rings (although these aren't 'standard' breakfast fare and neither are the fries). Use very little oil for fried eggs or have the eggs poached or scrambled instead.


Don't use too much oil to cook a whopping pile of animal fat-laden food; that makes it healthy. Got it. The world should know this, no question.

Obviously someone that doesn't know the difference between a good sausage and 'bangers' as butchers call them.
Cheap commercial bangers are full of fat, salt and MSG and are usually encased in artificial skins.
Good sausages have virtually no fat; just good meat, spices and cereal.
Decent bacon has very little fat [not that streaky shit you get in most US shops].
Mushrooms are fat-free and virtually zero calories except for what you cook them in.
Black pudding has some fat in it for taste; a good pudding doesn't have very much.
Eggs are good for you and have not a lot of fat. To quote one site of many: One large egg has less than 5 total grams of fat. About 3 grams of that amount come from healthy monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats...
Baked beans and tomatoes are not bad for you either.
Hash browns are just potato and onions in breadcrumbs - so these are basically carbs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

There's probably more crap in a standard McD's meal than in a good traditional English breakfast.


You would know from personal experience on both counts, I'm sure. I wouldn't, since ~30-35 years ago re McD's.

I can see the fat in McD's burgers and their dressing is fat-laden.
The buns are carbs and what little greenery and raw onions you get won't help a healthy diet; not to mention the MSG included for free.
Then there are the limp, grease-laden fries and usually over-salted - which isn't good for you.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: Just wondering - 3/4/2017 11:26:07 AM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
ORIGINAL: Edwird
In fact, eating a diet that gives you very excessive gas can't be good for your digestion or your health.


So when you've no idea what you're talking about, just make shit up. Oh yes, this is a P&R forum, almost forgot. Where do you come up with this 'excessive gas' thing? What is your obsession about this phenomenon? Vegetarians have less likelihood of excessive gas or many other problems than those eating that awful stuff you promote. I've had no excessive gas in ages. Who's the one freaking out, here? One doesn't have to be vegetarian, just actually eating vegetables on a regular basis will help matters a lot. And there's proof in abundance on that. Ignorance is not something to be proud of.


My guess about the gas is that when you first change your diet you may fart a lot. After a while though (a few days, maybe a week) your digestive system adjusts and you just fart normally.


True, that. It's been long enough since I changed it's hard to remember. But now that you mention; I went straight into juicing a lot, and my body did all kinds of strange things for two weeks. It was too sudden, which I didn't realize til after the fact. This is why I advise people interested in juicing to start gradually. I did feel noticeably better soon enough, and I was young enough to handle the rough treatment when my body went into serious 'elimination, maintenance and repair' mode. But more gradual would be better, if I had known. Same thing with almost any sudden change, as you say.

Funny thing, though, I was born half starved, so it seems. Read above what I could eat as a ten yr. old, I wasn't exaggerating. Two and a half -large- plates at Thanksgiving followed by all three deserts, for years. Never broke 135.

So two years after going all vegetarian and juicing, I got up to a whopping 5'11 (which I already was that) and 160. My work also involved more strenuous activity alongside that, and every body gains a bit at ~ age 33 to 35, so who knows. Aside from running sound at local events, I stood on skinny I-beams and pulled up 60-90 feet of steel baskets and heavy chain for all the one- and two-ton hoists to lift all the lighting and sound for shows at the arenas. (Wearing a climber's harness, lanyard to a safety cable, etc.). We doubled up on the two-ton double chain motors. (The one-ton/two-ton refers to the rating, not the weight of the chain or motors!). It might have been because of the "I eats me spinach" thing, but more likely because I was just stupid and crazy. I was doing all that 5 years before the change, and I was noticeably better at it after that. Which is good because that activity increased suddenly after the change. When a crew of 5-8 has to hang 60-80 points in 2-3 hours, quick beam hopping helps. Boy that was fun! Boy am I glad I don't do that anymore.



(in reply to Aylee)
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