RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (Full Version)

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Greta75 -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/13/2017 5:01:07 PM)

I *think* the UK Police is called the "The Scotland Yard" or something.

IF Scotland leaves, would the UK Police be renamed!



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/13/2017 5:07:34 PM)

Scotland Yard was so named because it was the palace that the Sottish Kings and nobles lived in when they were visiting London. That was back in the dim and distant. If they rename that, maybe they will also rename Brussels Sprouts, Strasbourg Pate and a number of other things.



WickedsDesire -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/13/2017 5:56:20 PM)

You survive without a brain do you not. You are bestowed with a blithering mind poverty I have rarely witnessed such famine. You will now call me and ask how I like a pathetic morsel such as yourself to refer to me..i prefer masterjames, God, sir remnants of me are actually olde school you fat ugly mess of incompleteness...do i lie dogs breath



Greta75 -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/13/2017 6:48:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire
You survive without a brain do you not. You are bestowed with a blithering mind poverty I have rarely witnessed such famine. You will now call me and ask how I like a pathetic morsel such as yourself to refer to me..i prefer masterjames, God, sir remnants of me are actually olde school you fat ugly mess of incompleteness...do i lie dogs breath

Lol! I think you are practically schizophrenic sometimes.

But I think we had a whole thread discussion about Scotland independence before.

They will have to build a military. Financially shoulder their own healthcare system. I don't think being part of Euro takes care of that.

I don't know..., I mean, I always have the impression that Scotland itself has alot of poverty and alot of people on welfare to support.

I am not sure Scotland can stand on their own feet, even if they wish to be a part of Euro.




WickedsDesire -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/13/2017 8:05:28 PM)

I am infinity.... you truly have no idea do you (open your mind and eyes)...best i show you my knee...so your argument was can England survive without Scotland



tweakabelle -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/14/2017 1:53:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

When you are a small subset of a much bigger group, you have to accept the majority vote of everyone in the whole club, not just your little group.


I am not sure that those who support Brexit should be advancing arguments like this. You have just presented a very good argument against Brexit. If the logic of this argument is applied to Brexit itself, then its effect can only be to insist that no Brexit should ever occur. So it seems to me that you are shooting yourself in the foot here.

Nor do I buy the argument you advanced in post # 9 that there is no "mechanism" for Scottish independence or ongoing EU membership. IF the Scots vote decisively to leave the Union in the forthcoming referendum, then there is no way that London can ignore that result. It will be politically impossible for London to insist that the Scots remain in the UK when it is manifestly against their expressed desire.

As regards all the political and economic difficulties that will be set in motion with a Scottish exit from the UK - they can all be negotiated. Straightforward solutions to most of these issues exist and there are historical precedents for the move - the Irish demanded and received their independence a long time ago.

So I am afraid that if the UK breaks up as a direct result of Brexit - and a Scottish vote for independence will effectively mean that - then the responsibility for the break-up of the UK will lie fairly and squarely with those who promoted Brexit. The supreme irony - and the measure of how politically inept the pro-Brexit people are - is that those who proclaim their loyalty to the Union the loudest will be those directly responsible for the demolition of that Union.



WhoreMods -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/14/2017 5:56:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

That said: it would be interesting to see how an independent Scottish economy is supposed to work now that the oil industry has demonstrated that it's not up to the job of floating the whole thing. There hasn't been one word about that from Hollyrood as yet, despite all of the demands for a second referendum. Maybe wee jimmy krankie could spend the next eighteen months working something out for that?


Lordy. I've just thought: Can you imagine ... all the big financial operators of the City of London moving up to Glasgow or Edinburgh? I mean ... why would they stick around in London after Brexit, if a now-independent Scotland is still part of the EU? I've read in the past of these big financial operators moving from the City of London to e.g. Brussels - but why bother with that, if somewhere in an English-speaking part of the British Isles is available?



Maybe they prefer the food in Brussells?
[:D]



Edwird -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/14/2017 6:09:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um...I don't think you mean "annexing."


"Canada votes to annex the US."

Did you miss that?

It's the latest trend!



Politesub53 -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/14/2017 5:08:04 PM)

Although I voted for brexit, I have a hankering to stay just to see the whole damn farce implode on itself.

I quite fancied Ms Sturgeon until I read why she had allegedly aquired the nickname Gnasher at Uni. One thing she wont explain, mainly because she cant, is how Scotland could survive without English taxpayers money.

Maybe my mate Adrian could build a wall or something. [8D]



PeonForHer -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/14/2017 5:31:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Although I voted for brexit, I have a hankering to stay just to see the whole damn farce implode on itself.




For a second I stumbled on what you meant there. I thought by 'whole damn farce imploding on itself' I genuinely thought you might have meant the UK, rather than the EU. Strewth .... Well, it's late.



longwayhome -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/14/2017 9:04:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

When you are a small subset of a much bigger group, you have to accept the majority vote of everyone in the whole club, not just your little group.


I am not sure that those who support Brexit should be advancing arguments like this. You have just presented a very good argument against Brexit. If the logic of this argument is applied to Brexit itself, then its effect can only be to insist that no Brexit should ever occur. So it seems to me that you are shooting yourself in the foot here.

Nor do I buy the argument you advanced in post # 9 that there is no "mechanism" for Scottish independence or ongoing EU membership. IF the Scots vote decisively to leave the Union in the forthcoming referendum, then there is no way that London can ignore that result. It will be politically impossible for London to insist that the Scots remain in the UK when it is manifestly against their expressed desire.

As regards all the political and economic difficulties that will be set in motion with a Scottish exit from the UK - they can all be negotiated. Straightforward solutions to most of these issues exist and there are historical precedents for the move - the Irish demanded and received their independence a long time ago.

So I am afraid that if the UK breaks up as a direct result of Brexit - and a Scottish vote for independence will effectively mean that - then the responsibility for the break-up of the UK will lie fairly and squarely with those who promoted Brexit. The supreme irony - and the measure of how politically inept the pro-Brexit people are - is that those who proclaim their loyalty to the Union the loudest will be those directly responsible for the demolition of that Union.


You are correct I fear.

I have no desire to see Scotland as an independent country but already there have been statements from a succession of English politicians telling the Scots that they have no right to secede from the UK during the Brexit negotiations.

Well what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You can't tell the people of Scotland that it is selfish to have a vote, or that being independent will not work economically, if you are up to your eyes in a movement to pull the UK out of Europe where the theoretical economic benefits come from your ability to run your own economy better than is possible under the EU. That is exactly what Nicola Sturgeon is campaigning for in Scotland - the people of Scotland having control over their own affairs.

I didn't want Brexit and I don't want to see Scottish independence, but arguing that the Scots are doing anything wrong after the Brexit vote just sounds like saying "our economic and political future is more important than yours".

No-one in the UK had much time for other Europeans telling them what to do about Brexit. That goes double for the English telling people living in Scotland what to do about independence.

Maybe if a vote does go ahead we can avoid a succession of vox pops on news programmes from English people telling the Scots that they are not wanted anyway as part of the UK or saying that English people should be able to vote as well so that they can vote to get rid of the Scots.

We would have found that kind of thing highly offensive if it was Europeans talking about Brexit, but somehow we thought it was okay for the Scots.



Edwird -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/15/2017 2:34:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

. . . the Irish demanded and received their independence a long time ago.


Well now, that's interesting.





WickedsDesire -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/15/2017 4:46:50 AM)

The history or Ireland is very complex - not something I really know about. I seem to think they were shafted (again) as recently as world war one. Anyone want to try write brief paragraph explaining the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland...and the "troubles" okay this bit http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/troubles explains the troubles - anyone want to explain the history before the troubles



WickedsDesire -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/15/2017 5:10:52 AM)

Any Americashire jackal want to tell me about the history of Alaska and New Mexico? actually what did you pay the Russians for Alaska? The United States purchased Alaska from the Russian Empire on March 30, 1867, for 7.2 million U.S. dollars at approximately two cents per acre ($4.74/km2). The area went through several administrative changes before becoming organized as a territory on May 11, 1912. It was admitted as the 49th state of the U.S. on January 3, 1959.[5]

Scottish independence support 'at highest ever level' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39265997

Support for Scottish independence has reached its highest-ever level in an annual academic study.

But the Scottish Social Attitudes survey also suggested the popularity of the European Union had fallen.
The researchers said this suggested focusing on EU membership may not be the best way to swing more voters towards independence.

The survey has asked the same question about how Scotland should be governed every year since 1999

....and worth mentioning the age disparity thingy....The Social Attitudes Survey suggested the increase in support for independence in recent years has been most marked among younger people.
As a result, there is now a very large age gap in support for independence, with 72% of 16-24 year olds wanting to leave the UK compared with just 26% of people aged 65 and over.

Now being a completely reasonable nationalist I want all our land back, the lot...which is just a smidgeon north of London, if I remember my geography & history correctly.

We Scotland will of course retain the name Great



PeonForHer -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/15/2017 5:18:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

. . . the Irish demanded and received their independence a long time ago.


Well now, that's interesting.





Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, though. (See WD's link for the respective statuses of NI and Ireland.)

However, since the NI election on March 2nd, the Unionists (i.e. those Northern Irish who want to retain a union with the UK) no longer have a majority, for the first time since Northern Ireland was created in 1921. There still isn't major support for a united island of Ireland (i.e. Northern with Southern Ireland, with both now outside of the UK) ... but there's growing support for Northern Ireland as a separate entity outside of the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/brexit-own-goal-changes-politics-northern-ireland

If all the foregoing looks like a mess, that's because it is. Furthermore, some way in the future, we could end up with the British Isles being made up of four separate entities: England and Wales (whatever that union of just two countries would then be called), Northern Ireland, Southern Ireland, and Scotland.





WickedsDesire -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/15/2017 5:30:12 AM)

I remember coming across this video some time ago it will explain (for those not aware including many British) the difference between: the four nations,GB, UK etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10




Edwird -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/15/2017 5:37:00 AM)


I wouldn't stop there.

I'd insist that even all the English history books call him Jimmy VI and not Jimmy I.

And I'd also reclaim Sean Connery to your own secret intelligence service, they can keep Miss Moneypenny.

I can see the movie re-writes now; "The name is James, James the Sixth." "Will you be attending the Roulette tables this evening, Mr. Sixth?"


Any case, I can just sit here from afar and call all of you complete nincompoops, whatever you do, however it turns out. That seems to be great sport nowadays.






WickedsDesire -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/15/2017 5:45:46 AM)

I forgot to add in this curious bit...which again not too many people are aware off. But take it more as a pure philosophical argument although there is some truth to bits and bobs re certain legislation and its unfair.

West Lothian question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question
The West Lothian question,[1] also known as the English question,[2] refers to whether MPs from Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, sitting in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom, should be able to vote on matters that affect only England, while MPs from England are unable to vote on matters that have been devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly.





WickedsDesire -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/15/2017 5:56:33 AM)

I would file a copyright infringement on the use of England and until such times as the exceptionally protracted legal dispute was resolved they would henceforth be known as Land, and not nearly soon enough, a nameless entity on a map..

Then every country in the world with the word land in their name should file a class action copywrite/trademark claim waffle against the England now known as Land

sorry politesub53 I am mulling over an answer to the misconception that you typed...if you would like to tell me us all how much profit England is running at the moment? And you could tell us which countries are failing because the bankrupt English tax payer does not help them out
We would of course inherit an equal proportion of the UK debt

eg politesub53 "So, even by the most generous measure, Scotland raised £53.1bn in 2012/13 and spent £65.2bn, leaving the country £12.1bn short.

In the same period, the UK had a shortfall of £117.4bn." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28879267 worth a look at trust me. For some bizarre reason when they say Scotland runs at at deficit they completely omit the fact that England does too and a whopper, and indeed more so does England % debt wise v GDP


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24866266 have a look at this page for now politesub53



Edwird -> RE: Scotland to vote on annexing England (3/15/2017 6:09:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

. . . the Irish demanded and received their independence a long time ago.


Well now, that's interesting.


Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, though.


Well yes, hence my "that's interesting" remark.

Ireland is Ireland. However much of it the UK insists on mashing its thumb into is another thing. Ireland as a whole does not have independence.

quote:

There still isn't major support for a united island of Ireland (i.e. Northern with Southern Ireland, with both now outside of the UK)


Not support from whom? The Irish or the Protestants? I could imagine some reasons why the Irish might not actually want that, but I'd be interested in hearing them if so.

quote:

... but there's growing support for Northern Ireland as a separate entity outside of the UK.


That would be interesting, no doubt.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/brexit-own-goal-changes-politics-northern-ireland

"So while it is undoubtedly true that the DUP’s Brexit misadventure has done more to advance a united Ireland than any nationalist party has managed in 100 years, it is far too simplistic to see Irish unity as the solution to Northern Ireland’s dilemma."

That I find confusing. If a united Ireland, then no more Northern Ireland for whom to have dilemma. I'm sure I'm missing something here. But as you state further;

quote:

If all the foregoing looks like a mess, that's because it is. Furthermore, some way in the future, we could end up with the British Isles being made up of four separate entities: England and Wales (whatever that union of just two countries would then be called), Northern Ireland, Southern Ireland, and Scotland.


A lot of things seem to be in flux at this juncture.

I'm trying to get in the mode of "everybody calm down a bit, here," not to say that it's easy to do.



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