RE: War on the Poor?

RE: War on the Poor? (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: War on the Poor? (3/23/2017 6:06:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Don't be obtuse, Vincent. It's the same fucking idea. What you're bitching about isn't just "earnings stripping" (something I'd bet we'd agree about), but US corporations not bringing profits made oversease (which they paid taxes on overseas) back to the US to get taxed again. While Corporations can deduct the amount of taxes paid overseas from their US tax bill on repatriated money, why would a company want to do that? Drop the Corporate tax rate and the tax bill for repatriated money is greatly reduced (especially after foreign income tax credits). Why do you think the US should get tax money from profits made outside the US, anyway? The answer is really quite simple. The United States tax code is based upon RESIDENCY. If you reside here and enjoy the liberties available to you, you pay taxes. What do you mean by "reside here?" If you mean "have their world HQ's here," you'll have to be prepared for a large exodus of companies' world HQ's. Clear incentive for them to do so. If you mean "have a US presence of any sort," best of luck collecting taxes on corporations like Toyota on sales outside the US. Really? Have you just awakened to the fact that people who live here are required to pay taxes for the privilege? Breaking news: residency taxation has been a reality for more than one hundred years. Where is the mass exodus? Don't be a fucktard. It's a valid question. Every company pays taxes to the US on their US profits. You know that. You know I know that. But, that wasn't the question, now was it?

vincentML -> RE: War on the Poor? (3/23/2017 7:16:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Don't be obtuse, Vincent. It's the same fucking idea. What you're bitching about isn't just "earnings stripping" (something I'd bet we'd agree about), but US corporations not bringing profits made oversease (which they paid taxes on overseas) back to the US to get taxed again. While Corporations can deduct the amount of taxes paid overseas from their US tax bill on repatriated money, why would a company want to do that? Drop the Corporate tax rate and the tax bill for repatriated money is greatly reduced (especially after foreign income tax credits). Why do you think the US should get tax money from profits made outside the US, anyway? The answer is really quite simple. The United States tax code is based upon RESIDENCY. If you reside here and enjoy the liberties available to you, you pay taxes. What do you mean by "reside here?" If you mean "have their world HQ's here," you'll have to be prepared for a large exodus of companies' world HQ's. Clear incentive for them to do so. If you mean "have a US presence of any sort," best of luck collecting taxes on corporations like Toyota on sales outside the US. Really? Have you just awakened to the fact that people who live here are required to pay taxes for the privilege? Breaking news: residency taxation has been a reality for more than one hundred years. Where is the mass exodus? Don't be a fucktard. It's a valid question. Every company pays taxes to the US on their US profits. You know that. You know I know that. But, that wasn't the question, now was it? You're floundering, DS. You very well know that a corporation registered in the United States is required to pay federal taxes on their income wherever that income is earned in the world, less credits for foreign taxes paid. So, given that, wtf are you pratting on about?

JeffBC -> RE: War on the Poor? (3/24/2017 11:47:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML The poor get the shaft when bankers and speculators destroy economies. We have had several examples here, the latest in 2008. Give us an example or two when Leftists destroyed economies "time and time again." Uh... you provided your own examples although calling Obama (or any Democrat) a "leftist" is yet another part of the propaganda. Explain to me again how many bankers were thrown in jail... even when convicted of actual crimes? Tell me again how we solved the "too big to fail" problem... or the "too big to jail" problem. Oh wait. We didn't. We handed them all a phat sack of cash money and told them "carry on". So now we've got "too bigger to fail" and "too bigger to jail" and there is a near certainty on another global financial crisis of much greater magnitude than the last one (based on derivative levels). I suspect it'll happen under Trump and you'll probably be looking to him for blame. I won't... or at least not exclusively. See also: Gilens & Page. Why do you think Democrats are getting crushed at every level and across the nation? Why do you think the numbers of registered Democrats are plummeting? Quite clearly, more and more people are coming to decide that yes, the "Leftists" are also destroying economies. The question is what to do about it.

mnottertail -> RE: War on the Poor? (3/24/2017 12:33:26 PM)
Uh..........in answer to your crushing, the massive and illegal gerrymander, the massive and illegal roll dumping, and the massive and illegal voter fraud by nutsuckers. I am unaware of Democratic registrations plummeting, do you have some detailed stats? I think that insofar as there is blame it is mostly on the igorati of the electorate. that we say people are corporations, that we feed corporations welfare, that we call money speech, that we ignore campaign finance, that we prefer to watch yellow journalism than to know about our country.............we have by indolence paved the creation of this.

vincentML -> RE: War on the Poor? (3/24/2017 12:52:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML The poor get the shaft when bankers and speculators destroy economies. We have had several examples here, the latest in 2008. Give us an example or two when Leftists destroyed economies "time and time again." Uh... you provided your own examples although calling Obama (or any Democrat) a "leftist" is yet another part of the propaganda. Explain to me again how many bankers were thrown in jail... even when convicted of actual crimes? Tell me again how we solved the "too big to fail" problem... or the "too big to jail" problem. Oh wait. We didn't. We handed them all a phat sack of cash money and told them "carry on". So now we've got "too bigger to fail" and "too bigger to jail" and there is a near certainty on another global financial crisis of much greater magnitude than the last one (based on derivative levels). I suspect it'll happen under Trump and you'll probably be looking to him for blame. I won't... or at least not exclusively. See also: Gilens & Page. Why do you think Democrats are getting crushed at every level and across the nation? Why do you think the numbers of registered Democrats are plummeting? Quite clearly, more and more people are coming to decide that yes, the "Leftists" are also destroying economies. The question is what to do about it. Are you saying the poor are not getting the shaft? Just wtf is your point? Please clarify.

DesideriScuri -> RE: War on the Poor? (3/25/2017 2:01:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Don't be obtuse, Vincent. It's the same fucking idea. What you're bitching about isn't just "earnings stripping" (something I'd bet we'd agree about), but US corporations not bringing profits made oversease (which they paid taxes on overseas) back to the US to get taxed again. While Corporations can deduct the amount of taxes paid overseas from their US tax bill on repatriated money, why would a company want to do that? Drop the Corporate tax rate and the tax bill for repatriated money is greatly reduced (especially after foreign income tax credits). Why do you think the US should get tax money from profits made outside the US, anyway? The answer is really quite simple. The United States tax code is based upon RESIDENCY. If you reside here and enjoy the liberties available to you, you pay taxes. What do you mean by "reside here?" If you mean "have their world HQ's here," you'll have to be prepared for a large exodus of companies' world HQ's. Clear incentive for them to do so. If you mean "have a US presence of any sort," best of luck collecting taxes on corporations like Toyota on sales outside the US. Really? Have you just awakened to the fact that people who live here are required to pay taxes for the privilege? Breaking news: residency taxation has been a reality for more than one hundred years. Where is the mass exodus? Don't be a fucktard. It's a valid question. Every company pays taxes to the US on their US profits. You know that. You know I know that. But, that wasn't the question, now was it? You're floundering, DS. You very well know that a corporation registered in the United States is required to pay federal taxes on their income wherever that income is earned in the world, less credits for foreign taxes paid. So, given that, wtf are you pratting on about? I'm not floundering at all, Vincent. I asked a perfectly legitimate question, and your 'given' above isn't really correct. So, to escape the excess taxation (excessive in their viewpoint, anyway), corporations can keep money outside the US, in foreign subsidiaries. That money can't be used in the US without having to pay taxes on it (US tax rate less any credits for taxes paid to the country where it was earned). Your solution gives an incentive to corporations to register outside the US. What happens after that? At that point, the only taxes owed to the Feds would be on income in the US, regardless of how much a (now foreign) corporation invests foreign-earned money in the US. Read a CBO article from the late 00's, that stated the US credits corporations foreign-paid taxes and caps tax liabilities to what would be paid in the US. So, if a corporation was taxed at a higher rate than it would have been by the US, the US tax credit is for more than what it would have owed to the US. Those "excess" tax credits can be applied to any other tax liabilities in the US. I would have no problem agreeing to getting rid of that. What is the benefit of being registered in the US, rather than being registered in a foreign country with a more favorable tax structure?

vincentML -> RE: War on the Poor? (3/25/2017 8:46:52 AM)
quote: What is the benefit of being registered in the US, rather than being registered in a foreign country with a more favorable tax structure? It's always an interesting challenge to find answers to good questions on this forum, DS. A number of companies like Google and Apple have registered subsidiaries overseas for the purpose of tax avoidance here, although that may not be the only reason they do so. So, why not move the entire company? For starters there is the problem of moving the physical plant/headquarters and the talent. You would have to calculate all of that into the cost benefit, adding additional compensation for relocating talent, or the cost of opportunity loss of talent, as well as cost of replacement, etc. Secondly, if the company wished to continue to sell its products here it would have to register as a sales tax collector for each of the states individually that levy a sales tax. Thirdly, American employees and company directors/management would still have to file tax returns on income arising from their overseas employment, in addition to the tax levied by the foreign government. The foreign tax is not deductible for employees. Do you think employees are willing to endure double taxation for the sake of the company?

DesideriScuri -> RE: War on the Poor? (3/25/2017 7:21:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: What is the benefit of being registered in the US, rather than being registered in a foreign country with a more favorable tax structure? It's always an interesting challenge to find answers to good questions on this forum, DS. I know it is. Normally, I don't have to worry about your responses... quote: A number of companies like Google and Apple have registered subsidiaries overseas for the purpose of tax avoidance here, although that may not be the only reason they do so. So, why not move the entire company? For starters there is the problem of moving the physical plant/headquarters and the talent. You would have to calculate all of that into the cost benefit, adding additional compensation for relocating talent, or the cost of opportunity loss of talent, as well as cost of replacement, etc. Secondly, if the company wished to continue to sell its products here it would have to register as a sales tax collector for each of the states individually that levy a sales tax. Thirdly, American employees and company directors/management would still have to file tax returns on income arising from their overseas employment, in addition to the tax levied by the foreign government. The foreign tax is not deductible for employees. Do you think employees are willing to endure double taxation for the sake of the company? That doesn't really answer the question, unless the only answer is they can register as a US multinational so they don't have to register as a sales tax collector with each state that collects a sales tax.

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