RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (Full Version)

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mstrjx -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 4:33:04 AM)

So, what have we learned here?  Erin is an alarmist and should be turned in to the committee right away; Kittin, on the other hand, can ruin all of her years of respectability and responsibility with one fell swoop and now can rightly be labeled an abuser.  We've all been warned.

Now, to the post.  Absolutely correct that communication is the key.  Over the years I have played with people of all sorts of experience, and I'm thinking it's 'possible' that I might have heard a safe word or two in that time.  Well not at all since I went deaf.

(That was a joke.)

But I think at least some of the responsibility has to fall to the more experienced one.  The top.  Like Kittin and myself and untold others, there is a reason why we've never or only rarely had a safe word used in conjunction with what we have done.

We pay attention.

I don't really need a safe word to be able to read body language.  Part of the responsibility of being a dom(me)/master/mistress/top is paying attention.  Watching the effect of what it is that we're doing.  If there is something like 'domspace' (which could NEVER happen to me) where I lose touch with what I'm doing, what would something like 'that' do to a newbie?

Jeff



catize -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 7:01:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Reading this has made me re-think even saying things ike "I like pain". It's been a helpful thread. Fact is, I know I like bdsm , but don't near enough experience to determine yet, whether I'd be considered a "pain slut", or even anything close to that, by an experienced Dominant. So from now on, if anyone asks me, my answer will be "No, not that I am aware of". Thanks for the thread topic!- Susan 


Susan,
When I first started out, what I said to potential dominants was: "I have fantasies about pain but I don't know my tolerance yet."  When one has little or no experience, it is not possible to give consent for an activity, but one can consent to try it. 



catize -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 7:11:22 AM)

quote:

You have a responsibility for yourself....it is NOT all on the Dom.  


I agree.  There were two adults in that room and both of them failed. We talk a lot about the submissive's need to trust the dominant, but the dominant needs to trust the submissive as well. 



juliaoceania -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 7:21:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx


I don't really need a safe word to be able to read body language.  Part of the responsibility of being a dom(me)/master/mistress/top is paying attention.  Watching the effect of what it is that we're doing.  If there is something like 'domspace' (which could NEVER happen to me) where I lose touch with what I'm doing, what would something like 'that' do to a newbie?

Jeff


From my understanding domspace is a place many dom/mes describe as a state of hyper-awareness, not reduced consciousness. It is helpful to be in this space to gauge the wellness of the submissive they are topping, not a hinderance.. it has also been labelled a "peak experience" by some



Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 7:24:42 AM)

I have to fully agree with you Erin .. all too many times people will see that I am a Sadist and respond to meeting with me that they are a pain slut and can take it all .. well I always warn them up front . I have yet to meet a girl who can take everything I got. I have tested a few on this to see just how much they truely can take . usually a couple lashes with my leather strap is all it takes to watch them grab their ass and yelp saying they had enough . then I simply go and talk with them . and confidently tell them maybe we should see what you can take . and where you want to go from there .... then we have set a limit and know  what the push rate is going to be .... but for new people ... please please don't rush in and say your a pain slut cause you like a hard spanking ... tell the person your going to session with exactly what your idea of pain slut is and how much you have taken in the past .... I hate seeing girls who say they can do soo much and they cant then all of a sudden they are turned off by the idea .. and remember all you Sadists out there .. work with the person you are sessioning with . comfort them after they give up and reassure them you will test their limits everytime .. and that you will have patience to take them where they want to go



Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 7:35:14 AM)

after reading thru things here I have to say it would appear that many have the complete wrong idea about S&M .... pain can be a beautiful thing I have personally taken 3 girls I know that said they weren't into the pain aspect and had them craving it in no time when done right .. it can be a beautiful mix of pain and pleasure
 
Dom space is very common amoungst most of us Sadist . it is that hieghtened awareness that is like a zone we go into . everything becomes so acute her breathing her body movements . your own breathing your own movements ... and everything else around you just kinda blurs out . you and the person you are sessioning become the only thing that is evident .. well at least for me it is.
 
for the girls I guess I would advise . please please .. make sure you know the person you are going to play with . make sure you know HIS or HER limits very well .. what they have done . what they have experience with . and by all means if your not feeling it .. STOP doing it ... you have a right to your own safety and health.



SusanofO -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 7:39:02 AM)

Great response, catize. I will remember that. Thanks.[:)]



juliaoceania -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 7:46:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

Maybe i'm a cold and heartless bastard, but i'm a little happy the newb learned her lesson the hard way, she shoulda watched out being so arrogant as to say she was something without knowing what was really out there and thinking that she was hot shit with that pain slut business.

Just my view...maybe I should cut down on the rare meat, I tend to get...aggressive.


That is very cold hearted.

I quoted this post because I wanted to say that only one dominant stated that he felt the top had a responsibility to make sure this newbie wasn't pushed that far no matter what her impressions of her pain threshold were, that he thought this was the responsibility of the top, playfulone

I tend to agree and this is why I do not think casual play is a good idea for newbies especially, but people do what people do.. but it seems a lot of blaming on one side on this thread....

My questions were these, did the top ask her experience level before thunking away on her ass with a CANE of all things. Did he ask her what she liked best, a sting or a thud? Did he check her reactions to the stimulus? Did he think it was ok to just haul off and start whacking away the first time he played with her (which in my mind is something that a top should think twice about doing if he doesn't know a person, she very well could have gotten ticked off enough to file charges for that perceived abuse, and note I said  perceived). It sounds to me like this was top was not very experienced either, which only added to the trouble.

Here is the recipe for disaster:

1) having a safeword that one refused to use
2)Being over confident of one's masochistic pain threshold
3)Possibly using an implement that had never been used on this submissive before
4) Sounds as if the safeword was not the only type of communication that wasn't employed, it sounds like direct communication wasn't used either.. and the dom has no recriminations thrown at him for using this tool of communication, so why wasn't it used?


I wasn't there, I do not know what all the failures that took place were, but it seems pretty easy to push it all on a newbie that doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground.. with knowledge comes responsibility, and if the top had experience he should have used it too.. it isn't all this gal's fault.. it rarely is the fault of one when a team effort goes awry, and I see scening as a team effort, the dom is the captain of that team.



hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 9:32:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

Too Heavy play is usually whatever goes beyond your ability NOT to wish to see the Top dropping dead in about the next three seconds.[;)]


After reading the majority of the thread, I just HAD to go back and comment on this.  It set me to giggling to hard to pass it up. 
 
I ENJOY Pain.  Even in a single scene though, I will go through Phases of wanting to see the top drop dead - it'll flash through my mind, and calling him a sumbitch has been known to come out of my mouth on more than one occassion.  Usually that desire to call him a sumbitch and throttle him happens if a swing hits an area that has been sensitized to much - or if he starts moving into the heavier applications before I'm completely warmed up.  I can't take something like the cane or crop until I've reached a certain point.  Start with them right off the bat and I'm just as likely to rip myself loose of whatever restraints are going on (if they're leather cuffs especially) and turn around snarling.  (Small hands/wrists - it's practically impossible to find a set of cuffs that I can't get out of unless they're custom made. I've had more than one top stare at me in dismay, because they were just Sure that I couldn't get myself loose. It's much safer to use Chain on me LOL.)  I've been playing a long time. I have no qualms about telling my play partners what my preferences are and where I'm not willing to go. And I Warn the Tops I play with what the consequences will be if they ignore such things.
 
quote:

Original : Tamerofwild1s
everything else around you just kinda blurs out . you and the person you are sessioning become the only thing that is evident .. well at least for me it is

 
That's not uncommon, in my own experience, for both people in a scene.  It's not a matter of "spacing" - it's a matter of being focused completely on yourself, the other person, and the sensations involved.



OsideGirl -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 9:49:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissDiandSirHugh

We know that the Sub was in many ways not only well and truly wrong for saying that she was a pain slut with out knowing what those two words mean to others who have not experienced it also because she did not use her safe word.
She had a safeword and her ego prevented her from using it. That is her fault. She had the power to stop the secen and didn't.

quote:

But there is also some blame we feel to go the Dom.
If he knew she was some one new to the life style

Did he? We have no idea what she told him. I've had subs tell me that they've had years of experience, only to find out it was cyber. The OP has already said that this girl said she was a pain slut because she had taken a hard spanking. For all we know, she told him that she had done heavy play scenes before. It's a personal pet peeve of mine, when a submssive makes a claim or says s/he wants to be pushed, never uses the safeword....and then blames the Dom.

quote:

and to what it involves then if he was experienced he should have known to uld have explained playenith her a lot more geting ays ns with a Sub, plus if he to was experienced then he should have ngo slow and warm her up so that she gets to understand what it involves and as he did this should have keep asking her how she felt so he could in some ways judge for him self her answers and body language..


We don't know if he was experienced either. For all we know, he could be a rank newbie.

The major failure of this whole thing was communication, and that failure was on both sides. So, in the end, both are at fault.




agirl -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 10:12:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Please...don't do it.

Tonight I spoke to yet another newbie who made the mistake this past weekend of telling a Dom she was about to play with that she was a real pain slut. Well guess what? It was far more intense than she ever dreamed it could be. Now she is saying this lifestyle isn't for her...this is downright abusive....it was WAY too intense. Part of the scene was a caning....her first. When I asked her why she would have told him such a thing she said that she really gets off on a really hard spanking, so she thought she could "take" alot. She had no real understanding of just what "alot" might be like...and to be honest...she still doesn't.

Please people, if you don't have real time experience with actual sadists....until you know what it actually feels like....don't call yourself a masochist or a painslut. You just might be talking to someone who is going to take you seriously and give you exactly what it is you are claiming you want.


That situation isn't about *actual sadists*.

It's entirely about a mismatch of expectations, lack of information and not KNOWING each other.

If she's saying it was abusive, that is isn't for her, that it was too intense etc ......then jolly good show. She learned something.

You said she STILL doesn't know what *a lot* is......well, I think she probably has SOME idea......unless she's particularly dense.

agirl











agirl -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 10:35:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

Maybe i'm a cold and heartless bastard, but i'm a little happy the newb learned her lesson the hard way, she shoulda watched out being so arrogant as to say she was something without knowing what was really out there and thinking that she was hot shit with that pain slut business.

Just my view...maybe I should cut down on the rare meat, I tend to get...aggressive.


That is very cold hearted.

I quoted this post because I wanted to say that only one dominant stated that he felt the top had a responsibility to make sure this newbie wasn't pushed that far no matter what her impressions of her pain threshold were, that he thought this was the responsibility of the top, playfulone

I tend to agree and this is why I do not think casual play is a good idea for newbies especially, but people do what people do.. but it seems a lot of blaming on one side on this thread....

My questions were these, did the top ask her experience level before thunking away on her ass with a CANE of all things. Did he ask her what she liked best, a sting or a thud? Did he check her reactions to the stimulus? Did he think it was ok to just haul off and start whacking away the first time he played with her (which in my mind is something that a top should think twice about doing if he doesn't know a person, she very well could have gotten ticked off enough to file charges for that perceived abuse, and note I said  perceived). It sounds to me like this was top was not very experienced either, which only added to the trouble.

Here is the recipe for disaster:

1) having a safeword that one refused to use
2)Being over confident of one's masochistic pain threshold
3)Possibly using an implement that had never been used on this submissive before
4) Sounds as if the safeword was not the only type of communication that wasn't employed, it sounds like direct communication wasn't used either.. and the dom has no recriminations thrown at him for using this tool of communication, so why wasn't it used?


I wasn't there, I do not know what all the failures that took place were, but it seems pretty easy to push it all on a newbie that doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground.. with knowledge comes responsibility, and if the top had experience he should have used it too.. it isn't all this gal's fault.. it rarely is the fault of one when a team effort goes awry, and I see scening as a team effort, the dom is the captain of that team.
It's all very well

'Tis all very understandable.....Yet mistoferin says she *still doesn't know how much *a alot* is*.

It doesn't really MATTER whose fault any of it is, ultimately.......it was an EXPERIENCE and we are being told of one side of that experience.

It's all very well speaking about  the dom being the *captain* but you can really only captain a team well and successfully if you are WELL versed in your team-members. The captain has to trust that he has ALL the relevant information etc....less he stick a *right-back* in a *forward* postion ....... come ON.......does he take the WORD of the *right-back* or does he do trials and find out?

You can never know what *a lot* is by ANYONE'S standards ......unless you have WORKED at knowing that.

agirl






TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 11:18:36 AM)

I see IMO that both are at fault..but as a submissive I feel that it is dependant on me at first to protect my being rather than to place full trust upon the Dominant to either wait for a safe word or to "read" my body language.Quite simply I do not know what my pain threshold is,I do not even know how much pain I would like,I do not even know if I like pain at all!..My experience zip..zero..nada..so if and when I inform said Dominant of this then hopefully I can expect him (if I chose correctly) to then start slow and build from there.So I must agree with Julia a newbit should probably not scene at first but should develop a relationship with a Dominant so that she will know what her limits will be and go from there. Of course having said that I much prefer a lasting relationship over play...be well...Tempting



juliaoceania -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 11:40:47 AM)

All we got is one side of the story, true, but it is a very incomplete story to go around blaming the newbie.. that was my point.. lots of blame on her, no blame on anyone else but her? Like I said, I do not think that is a balanced view and further it shows me how I wouldn't let anyone hit me that 1)didn't use safewords, 2) didn't communicate to me that he felt he was responsible for my welfare by checking with me often 3) I wouldn't let any old body hit my ass with a cane during casual play.

I think that we could blame casual play as much as any other factor.. such as her misjudging her own responses to different pain stimulus.. which is only one part of the equation.. the rest of the equation is just as valuable to know before we go making judgments. I wonder why my post was highlighted as one of the very few that asked about what the dominants failings were since we are loud and clear how the newbie failed.. I didn't say he had failed her necessarily, but when a scene fails it is usually has more than one reason, and things can be learned from such failures. It is very important that others reading this board think about the fact not all dominants are capable of beating them responsibly if they lack experience too. We all fail when we first start something new, that is why we rely on others with more experience to guide us. As someone new I am putty in my Dominant's hands.

My Daddy told me last night that someone high on endorphins is not necessarily responsible for knowing when their limit has been reached.. I think that is valid. If you have a sub high out of her mind and flying into subspace then who is responsible for her? just a question.. it is why we do not rely on safewords alone in my dynamic, because he feels responsible for me when he starts whacking away on me. If there was only one line of communication (my safewords guiding him) that would be very incomplete.

Again.. just my thoughts



agirl -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 12:09:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

All we got is one side of the story, true, but it is a very incomplete story to go around blaming the newbie.. that was my point.. lots of blame on her, no blame on anyone else but her? Like I said, I do not think that is a balanced view and further it shows me how I wouldn't let anyone hit me that 1)didn't use safewords, 2) didn't communicate to me that he felt he was responsible for my welfare by checking with me often 3) I wouldn't let any old body hit my ass with a cane during casual play.

I think that we could blame casual play as much as any other factor.. such as her misjudging her own responses to different pain stimulus.. which is only one part of the equation.. the rest of the equation is just as valuable to know before we go making judgments. I wonder why my post was highlighted as one of the very few that asked about what the dominants failings were since we are loud and clear how the newbie failed.. I didn't say he had failed her necessarily, but when a scene fails it is usually has more than one reason, and things can be learned from such failures. It is very important that others reading this board think about the fact not all dominants are capable of beating them responsibly if they lack experience too. We all fail when we first start something new, that is why we rely on others with more experience to guide us. As someone new I am putty in my Dominant's hands.

My Daddy told me last night that someone high on endorphins is not necessarily responsible for knowing when their limit has been reached.. I think that is valid. If you have a sub high out of her mind and flying into subspace then who is responsible for her? just a question.. it is why we do not rely on safewords alone in my dynamic, because he feels responsible for me when he starts whacking away on me. If there was only one line of communication (my safewords guiding him) that would be very incomplete.

Again.. just my thoughts......


If you're on the action end of an *implement of pain*, YOU are responsible for that part.

If you're on the receiving end of some kind of *implement of pain*....you are responsible for being there.

Whatever *end* you're on.....you are PART of it.......you're not a victim.

agirl




CreativeDominant -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 12:13:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Please...don't do it.

Tonight I spoke to yet another newbie who made the mistake this past weekend of telling a Dom she was about to play with that she was a real pain slut. Well guess what? It was far more intense than she ever dreamed it could be. Now she is saying this lifestyle isn't for her...this is downright abusive....it was WAY too intense. Part of the scene was a caning....her first. When I asked her why she would have told him such a thing she said that she really gets off on a really hard spanking, so she thought she could "take" alot. She had no real understanding of just what "alot" might be like...and to be honest...she still doesn't.

Please people, if you don't have real time experience with actual sadists....until you know what it actually feels like....don't call yourself a masochist or a painslut. You just might be talking to someone who is going to take you seriously and give you exactly what it is you are claiming you want.


A lot of times I hate "Me too" or "I agree" posts...but I haven't seen one lately where "I agree" was more appropriate than this.  Kudos to you for your warning, mistoferin.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 12:18:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

and as long we have your attention newbies do not feel ashamed to use your safe-word it is not: a fall from grace, you will not ruin the scene, you will not hurt the doms feelings, and you are not topping from the bottom...you are at your limit, and that is what it is there for.


I am soooooo glad you mentioned that because this is also another case where she was "too embarassed" to use her safe word. I don't personally believe in the use of safewords...I think that straightforward communication is much more effective. But holy shit, if you are given a tool to stop the action and you don't use it OR any other form of communication to signal a problem...who's fault is it when things go sour and you walk away unhappy????? You have a responsibility for yourself....it is NOT all on the Dom.


Again, I agree.  Good God, people...we are allllllllll supposed to be adults.  Part of being an adult is recognizing that a lot of the play we engage in...no matter how safe, sane, or consensual it is...is designed to bring on pain.  That the one you ask to give you the pain may or may not be experienced doesn't really matter in any instance where you are unwilling to take personal responsibility and open your mouth.



IndigoDadesi -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 12:20:08 PM)

I totally agree with the post, but as a Domme, I cant help but think what the Dominant was thinking in not talking to the sub before hand to find out what she had or hadnt done and what she infact meant by "pain slut". Ive only played with one "green-fresh-off-the-farm-Ive-never-done-this-before" sub and I took it easy on her since even though she said she was really into pain I had to assume her limits were low since she was a newbie.

Im not trying to say anything about the competence of the Dominant, but caning a green sub is just asking for trouble.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 12:37:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

Maybe i'm a cold and heartless bastard, but i'm a little happy the newb learned her lesson the hard way, she shoulda watched out being so arrogant as to say she was something without knowing what was really out there and thinking that she was hot shit with that pain slut business.

Just my view...maybe I should cut down on the rare meat, I tend to get...aggressive.


That is very cold hearted.

I quoted this post because I wanted to say that only one dominant stated that he felt the top had a responsibility to make sure this newbie wasn't pushed that far no matter what her impressions of her pain threshold were, that he thought this was the responsibility of the top, playfulone

I tend to agree and this is why I do not think casual play is a good idea for newbies especially, but people do what people do.. but it seems a lot of blaming on one side on this thread....

My questions were these, did the top ask her experience level before thunking away on her ass with a CANE of all things. Did he ask her what she liked best, a sting or a thud? Did he check her reactions to the stimulus? Did he think it was ok to just haul off and start whacking away the first time he played with her (which in my mind is something that a top should think twice about doing if he doesn't know a person, she very well could have gotten ticked off enough to file charges for that perceived abuse, and note I said  perceived). It sounds to me like this was top was not very experienced either, which only added to the trouble.

Here is the recipe for disaster:

1) having a safeword that one refused to use
2)Being over confident of one's masochistic pain threshold
3)Possibly using an implement that had never been used on this submissive before
4) Sounds as if the safeword was not the only type of communication that wasn't employed, it sounds like direct communication wasn't used either.. and the dom has no recriminations thrown at him for using this tool of communication, so why wasn't it used?


I wasn't there, I do not know what all the failures that took place were, but it seems pretty easy to push it all on a newbie that doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground.. with knowledge comes responsibility, and if the top had experience he should have used it too.. it isn't all this gal's fault.. it rarely is the fault of one when a team effort goes awry, and I see scening as a team effort, the dom is the captain of that team.


Had to respond to this.  I've mentioned it in another group that I used to belong to. 
I went to meet with a submissive one time who told me she was a pain slut.  I did all the things that dominants are supposed to do...had her fill out a list, had her describe the type of markings she liked, had her describe some of the experiences she had, etc.
Being a good little sadistic dominant, I went to work on her...both from the dominant side and the sadistic side.  She handled it very well...until the next morning...when she went in the bathroom and looked at the welts on her ass.  That is when she came back into the bathroom and told me that she "could not believe that someone that professed to know what they were doing and who 'supposedly' cared about the submissive's well-being could do this to her...and "Oh, by the way, you've got 10 minutes to get out of my apartment before I call the cops and show them what you've done to me."

I found out later that the submissive...besides having some mental/emotional issues...had literally no experience.  I found this out from another submissive I played with about 6 months later who, until she and I hooked up, had no idea who the 'big, bad dominant-wanna-be' was that had "beat up" her 'newbie' friend.

Sometimes...the dominant is doing what he's supposed to...but if he's being lied to by someone who's too embarassed to admit their newness and too stoic to say something and whose responses indicate enjoyment rather than dissatisfaction/discomfort...what should he do then?  I'm not saying I'm perfect...(though I am close...~g~);  I have had experiences, I regret to say, where the submissive being hurt or the scene going wrong in some other way, was my fault.  But just as it can be a dominant's fault because he IS in control and doesn't stop when he should...it can also be a submissive's fault when, even though the dominant is in control, she is engaging in deception of one sort or another.

As noted on numerous threads...and perhaps the most essential ingredient for people playing together the first time...communication is key, honest communication even  more so.



juliaoceania -> RE: Newbies self identifying as painsluts (7/26/2006 1:08:03 PM)

Then this submissive was being an ass CD, I think you did what you were supposed to.

My point on edit is that I saw very little in the way of warning perspective dominants about this issue either, it isn't all about blame as far as the OP, but learning... at least I think there is a lot to learn on both sides of cane. Since we didn't see it we just don't know, there may be a lesson for eveyone..

Your story is a warning to doms too about how things can go wrong even when you do everything you are supposed to.. thanks for sharing it.



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