Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report

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Musicmystery -> Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 10:52:46 AM)
From the independent.co.uk: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report The transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy “now appears irreversible” as the cost of green power plunges, according to a new report. In The Transition Takes Hold, Clean Energy Canada said some 6.7 million people were working in the sector worldwide with one out of every 50 new jobs in the US being created by the solar industry alone. And it highlighted prediction that generation costs for large-scale solar power plants were expected to drop by a massive 57 per cent by 2025, with onshore and offshore wind expected to become 26 and 35 per cent respectively. In the report’s executive summary, Merran Smith, executive director of Clean Energy Canada, wrote: “Tipping points: those elusive moments when a technology goes mainstream. Much has been written in the debate over whether renewable energy has passed, is fast-approaching, or is still a ways from crossing that threshold. “The true tipping point will only become apparent in the rearview mirror, and it won’t be defined by a single moment or breakthrough. It will be crossed at different times, in different countries, driven by different forces. “But the clean energy transition now appears irreversible.” She said three major electricity markets – China, India and the US – had “aggressively pursued renewable power”. “In both China and India, renewable energy offers a critical solution to the pollution choking fast-growing cities. Smog has become increasingly disruptive – socially, economically and politically –closing schools in Delhi, grounding airplanes in China and contributing to the premature deaths of millions of citizens,” Ms Smith said. “In the US, the renewable energy sector has become a major job creator: since 2009, the solar industry created one out of every 80 new jobs, and the country’s fastest-growing occupation is wind turbine technician. “While President Donald Trump may have promised to bring back coal jobs, he will no doubt find resistance – in both Congress and statehouses – should his efforts come at the expense of clean energy jobs.” The report said total investment in renewables had fallen in 2016 from a “record-setting” level in 2015. But it added that the actual amount of green electricity capacity added in 2016 had still come close to the 2015 level because it was cheaper to build. Ms Smith said there was a business opportunity for Canada to sell renewables to the rest of the world. “We have a clean energy technology sector that punches above its weight and companies hungry to sell their solutions beyond our borders. Helping other countries increase their use of renewable power may be where Canada finds its niche – and economic opportunity – in the global clean energy transition. “As the US government retreats from international climate diplomacy, clean energy innovation and free trade, it leaves a gap that Canada is well-positioned to fill. And it’s clear that if we don’t step up, somebody else will.”

Hillwilliam -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 11:58:54 AM)
One of the big problems of renewables has been battery technology. this might help. https://www.yahoo.com/tech/94-old-inventor-lithium-ion-034245048.html

BoscoX -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 12:40:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery From the independent.co.uk: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report The transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy “now appears irreversible” as the cost of green power plunges, according to a new report. In The Transition Takes Hold, Clean Energy Canada said some 6.7 million people were working in the sector worldwide with one out of every 50 new jobs in the US being created by the solar industry alone. And it highlighted prediction that generation costs for large-scale solar power plants were expected to drop by a massive 57 per cent by 2025, with onshore and offshore wind expected to become 26 and 35 per cent respectively. In the report’s executive summary, Merran Smith, executive director of Clean Energy Canada, wrote: “Tipping points: those elusive moments when a technology goes mainstream. Much has been written in the debate over whether renewable energy has passed, is fast-approaching, or is still a ways from crossing that threshold. “The true tipping point will only become apparent in the rearview mirror, and it won’t be defined by a single moment or breakthrough. It will be crossed at different times, in different countries, driven by different forces. “But the clean energy transition now appears irreversible.” She said three major electricity markets – China, India and the US – had “aggressively pursued renewable power”. “In both China and India, renewable energy offers a critical solution to the pollution choking fast-growing cities. Smog has become increasingly disruptive – socially, economically and politically –closing schools in Delhi, grounding airplanes in China and contributing to the premature deaths of millions of citizens,” Ms Smith said. “In the US, the renewable energy sector has become a major job creator: since 2009, the solar industry created one out of every 80 new jobs, and the country’s fastest-growing occupation is wind turbine technician. “While President Donald Trump may have promised to bring back coal jobs, he will no doubt find resistance – in both Congress and statehouses – should his efforts come at the expense of clean energy jobs.” The report said total investment in renewables had fallen in 2016 from a “record-setting” level in 2015. But it added that the actual amount of green electricity capacity added in 2016 had still come close to the 2015 level because it was cheaper to build. Ms Smith said there was a business opportunity for Canada to sell renewables to the rest of the world. “We have a clean energy technology sector that punches above its weight and companies hungry to sell their solutions beyond our borders. Helping other countries increase their use of renewable power may be where Canada finds its niche – and economic opportunity – in the global clean energy transition. “As the US government retreats from international climate diplomacy, clean energy innovation and free trade, it leaves a gap that Canada is well-positioned to fill. And it’s clear that if we don’t step up, somebody else will.” Knocked the dust off of the 1977 propaganda is all. Lost the old man in the sweater, added a few bells and whistles

jlf1961 -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 1:03:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam One of the big problems of renewables has been battery technology. this might help. https://www.yahoo.com/tech/94-old-inventor-lithium-ion-034245048.html Just batteries? Look, at present, a solar farm using solar panels would need a few HUNDRED square miles of land to power even a small city. Wind farms are little better. Around here, cattle ranchers saw a boon in wind farm companies wanting to lease property for wind turbines, except that for each turbine that goes up, 4 acres have to be fenced off from grazing. Quite a few saw their available land for grazing drop by over half. The only land owners that did not have this problem were the ones that owned property that were the tops of the mesa/hills we have in the area. Of course there are some bright spots to look at. A company in California developed a photocell that is essentially glass with a photo reactive matrix embedded in it. They proved that replacing the glass in a typical high rise could drop the load on the grid by as much as 50%. Adding solar cells to apartments, houses etc in urban areas can have an equally dramatic impact. However, there is the cost problem. None of the systems are cheap. Even with the tax and state incentives which pay out after installation and inspection, the home owner is looking at an outlay of 6 to 10 grand depending on the system and needs of the home. None of this even touches on the conspiratorial rumor mill some alternative energy folks are feeding into, that NASA has developed and is using solar power technology that is 3 or even 10 times more efficient than commercially available and the technology is not being released due to "national security" concerns. Then there is the dream of fusion. The math that explains why the sun maintains a fusion reaction has been around for years, the basic parts are volume, mass, gravity and heat. All are necessary to over come Coulomb barrier. In theory, increase a few variables to over come the lack of others and you should get fusion. Problem is that no one today has any clue as to how to accomplish it in practice. Of course, there are the nuclear power cells of the type that is used in space vehicles. Not true reactors, they generate electricity simply by having nuclear isotopes decay, producing heat and then the heat is converted to electricity. Problem is that if the housing breaks, you have a nuclear accident that makes three mile island look tame, since the isotope is plutonium and a little bit of that can contaminate a large area, or get a tractor trailer buried in concrete (actually saw that when I made a delivery at Oak Ridge. A container of plutonium had leaked just enough to contaminate a truck and trailer but not enough to qualify as a major incident. The solution was to buy the truck from the owner operator and bury the whole rig.) Finally, addressing the battery issue. There are batteries that would make electric cars etc as viable as those burning gas or diesel. And they are not as heavy as what is used now. However, they were developed under the umbrella of DARPA and thus, not commercially available at this time. Even so, Lithium, Nickle Cadmium and other rechargeable, high yield deep cycle batteries have their own drawbacks, that being disposal when they are no longer able to hold a charge. All involve heavy metals which are toxic to humans, animals and plants.

MrRodgers -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 1:43:13 PM)
Well this makes for good reading but one cannot now and one is to never underestimate the political power of the capitalist in general and the fossil fuel industry in particular. For example such as Buffett's NVEnergy who can go to the state govt., and get his capitalist ass kissed and cut off benefits of solar and one of the states it does the most good because of the market for solar. Talk about killing jobs. Plus as I've touched on and further research shows, that the US govt. has subsidized fossil fuels 5 times more than renewables. Until that reverses and there is a tech commitment of that size, we have a long, long way to go to get off fossil fuels. There can be a unique ruthlessness to these capitalists. Why do you think the US govt. built an interstate highway system instead of an interstate passenger rail system ? Electric rail is the most cost effective means of transporting passengers and freight yet.....? Anybody know what happened to the Paris-Brussels and Cologne-Frankfurt routes ?

blnymph -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 2:00:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers ... Anybody know what happened to the Paris-Brussels and Cologne-Frankfurt routes ? What should have happened? To my knowledge mostly on schedule ...

Musicmystery -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 2:14:04 PM)
Yeah, I think he's a little behind the times.

AtUrCervix -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 2:39:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery From the independent.co.uk: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report The transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy “now appears irreversible” as the cost of green power plunges, according to a new report. In The Transition Takes Hold, Clean Energy Canada said some 6.7 million people were working in the sector worldwide with one out of every 50 new jobs in the US being created by the solar industry alone. And it highlighted prediction that generation costs for large-scale solar power plants were expected to drop by a massive 57 per cent by 2025, with onshore and offshore wind expected to become 26 and 35 per cent respectively. In the report’s executive summary, Merran Smith, executive director of Clean Energy Canada, wrote: “Tipping points: those elusive moments when a technology goes mainstream. Much has been written in the debate over whether renewable energy has passed, is fast-approaching, or is still a ways from crossing that threshold. “The true tipping point will only become apparent in the rearview mirror, and it won’t be defined by a single moment or breakthrough. It will be crossed at different times, in different countries, driven by different forces. “But the clean energy transition now appears irreversible.” She said three major electricity markets – China, India and the US – had “aggressively pursued renewable power”. “In both China and India, renewable energy offers a critical solution to the pollution choking fast-growing cities. Smog has become increasingly disruptive – socially, economically and politically –closing schools in Delhi, grounding airplanes in China and contributing to the premature deaths of millions of citizens,” Ms Smith said. “In the US, the renewable energy sector has become a major job creator: since 2009, the solar industry created one out of every 80 new jobs, and the country’s fastest-growing occupation is wind turbine technician. “While President Donald Trump may have promised to bring back coal jobs, he will no doubt find resistance – in both Congress and statehouses – should his efforts come at the expense of clean energy jobs.” The report said total investment in renewables had fallen in 2016 from a “record-setting” level in 2015. But it added that the actual amount of green electricity capacity added in 2016 had still come close to the 2015 level because it was cheaper to build. Ms Smith said there was a business opportunity for Canada to sell renewables to the rest of the world. “We have a clean energy technology sector that punches above its weight and companies hungry to sell their solutions beyond our borders. Helping other countries increase their use of renewable power may be where Canada finds its niche – and economic opportunity – in the global clean energy transition. “As the US government retreats from international climate diplomacy, clean energy innovation and free trade, it leaves a gap that Canada is well-positioned to fill. And it’s clear that if we don’t step up, somebody else will.” (Ya'll are aware {I'm certain} that not only does competition cause falling prices but that....EVERY time oil/coal and other "fuels" take the stage....Solar will (by default) "try harder".....yeah? Anyone not "get" this? Add in to this that if we dumped EVERY energy dollar we have in to solar {or wind or tides} that the demand curve {read: Costs} would push those prices HIGHER!!!!! ERGO....the BEST thing {anyone} can do as to lowering the price of solar {or wind....or tides or...} would be to PUSH fuel energy....in short....the BEST thing that could POSSIBLY happen as to solar pricing....would be to PUSH the alternatives...or...in this vernacular....the status quo). This is Econ 101 folks. (I'm here all week).

DesideriScuri -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 3:51:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Well this makes for good reading but one cannot now and one is to never underestimate the political power of the capitalist in general and the fossil fuel industry in particular. For example such as Buffett's NVEnergy who can go to the state govt., and get his capitalist ass kissed and cut off benefits of solar and one of the states it does the most good because of the market for solar. Talk about killing jobs. Plus as I've touched on and further research shows, that the US govt. has subsidized fossil fuels 5 times more than renewables. Until that reverses and there is a tech commitment of that size, we have a long, long way to go to get off fossil fuels. There can be a unique ruthlessness to these capitalists. Why do you think the US govt. built an interstate highway system instead of an interstate passenger rail system ? Electric rail is the most cost effective means of transporting passengers and freight yet.....? Anybody know what happened to the Paris-Brussels and Cologne-Frankfurt routes ? You really do need to find a way to relax a little bit; at least occasionally. I've been at least mildly interested in alternative energy since the 80's. It's always been about saving money, personally. Government doesn't have the authority to mandate green energy vs. non-green energy. Left alone, they'll eventually start to see prices climb rapidly for carbon-based energy, as the costs for getting it out of the ground are going to keep going up. That's how scarcity works in economics. I'm not surprised that alternative energy is getting cheaper. FFS, I applaud it! That will make it easier for me to add it to my property.

MasterBrentC -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 4:09:34 PM)
Some here will be surprised to hear me say that solar energy is a viable option for individual homes to get them off the grid. However, on a large scale such as towns or cities, solar energy isn't very practical. Fossil fuels will be with us for a long time. Battery-powered cars might work but how far can they go till the battery runs out our need recharging? For long trips gasoline or diesel engines are the most efficient. And finally, ask yourself if you will be first in line to board a solar powered airplane or wind powered airplane.

blnymph -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 5:07:57 PM)
You 'll be surprised that 19 % of a whole country's electrical power is supplied by wind and solar energy now, and growing. The first solar powered airplane has completed a round the globe trip.

jlf1961 -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 5:20:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blnymph You 'll be surprised that 19 % of a whole country's electrical power is supplied by wind and solar energy now, and growing. The first solar powered airplane has completed a round the globe trip. yes, it did, and the aircraft was a brillaint advertisement for carbon fiber composites and ultralight material. after that, nothing. The aircraft did not use batteries, could only fly in daylight hours or periods of sunlight, clouds grounded it, so other than a neat stunt, what exactly did it prove?

Edwird -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 5:23:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix (Ya'll are aware {I'm certain} that not only does competition cause falling prices but that....EVERY time oil/coal and other "fuels" take the stage....Solar will (by default) "try harder".....yeah? Anyone not "get" this? Add in to this that if we dumped EVERY energy dollar we have in to solar {or wind or tides} that the demand curve {read: Costs} would push those prices HIGHER!!!!! ERGO....the BEST thing {anyone} can do as to lowering the price of solar {or wind....or tides or...} would be to PUSH fuel energy....in short....the BEST thing that could POSSIBLY happen as to solar pricing....would be to PUSH the alternatives...or...in this vernacular....the status quo). This is Econ 101 folks. (I'm here all week). Econ 101, right. So, if on board with that, then how to explain that government coddling of fossil fuel companies and innumerable subsidies and tax preferences and numerous wars fought and foreign intrusions of and domestic transportation hijacked by fossil fuel interests financed by the government for benefit of the fossil energy sector and their singular interest is any better or worse than if same support be given to non-fossil energy companies, minus all the wars and intrusions and resultant terrorism and world disturbance inherent therein? If we want things to be fair or equitable on the playground, and, -as per Econ 101-, consider the full costs across the board, then let's have it out.

Edwird -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 5:38:30 PM)
Oh, and another thing from someone who has taken Econ 101 and Econ 404; the fossil fuel industry is about as far away from anything remotely resembling 'free market' as one could possibly imagine.

Musicmystery -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 6:01:02 PM)
~FR~ So, for the posters with knee jerk reactions and no reading . . .the article isn't about the status quo -- it's about the dynamic situation. Things are changing.

thompsonx -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 6:33:53 PM)
ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Look, at present, a solar farm using solar panels would need a few HUNDRED square miles of land to power even a small city. Topaz produces about 550 mw from less than ten sq. miles which will supply a city of 75,000 which means that 100 sq. mi. will supply a city of 750,000. There are only a dozen and a half cities in amerika lareger than 750,000 Wind farms are little better. Around here, cattle ranchers saw a boon in wind farm companies wanting to lease property for wind turbines, except that for each turbine that goes up, 4 acres have to be fenced off from grazing. Why can't cows graze under the wind machines?

MasterBrentC -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 8:04:55 PM)
Another problem with solar farms and wind farms..... Solar farms super heat the air above them that cook any birds that fly into the zone. Windmills kill birds when they fly into the blades. What do you suppose PITA will have to say about thaf?

mnottertail -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/2/2017 8:11:39 PM)
I dont know, but now that coal is the great shit for nutsuckers and you are bringing it back, you might create some buggy whip manufacturing jobs.

tweakabelle -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/3/2017 3:15:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC Another problem with solar farms and wind farms..... Solar farms super heat the air above them that cook any birds that fly into the zone. Windmills kill birds when they fly into the blades. What do you suppose PITA will have to say about thaf? Is this really the best you can come up with? Are you reduced to these pathetic whines? Because if these moronic whinges are the best you can do, then the case for whatever views you are attempting to discredit - in this instance solar farms and wind farms - would appear to be overwhelming. To anyone with a modicum of common sense, it makes absolute sense to try to harvest solar energy, FREE solar energy. ENDLESS solar energy, NON-POLLUTING solar energy, CLEAN solar energy instead of fossil fuel generated energy. As the economics have now seem to have tilted in favour of solar energy and wind energy, it makes even less sense to stick to the old discredited dirty and expensive fossil fuel energy model.

thompsonx -> RE: Plunging price of renewable energy makes end of fossil fuels inevitable, says report (4/3/2017 3:42:39 AM)
ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC Another problem with solar farms and wind farms..... Solar farms super heat the air above them that cook any birds that fly into the zone. Perhaps if you were to do a little reading on the subject before you post your opinion you would not seem such an ignorant fool. Flat pannel solar farms do not superheat anything. They, in fact, cool the underlying earth making it usable for high value food crops that could not have been grown in the same area without the shade provided by the pannels. The concentrating reflectors do heat the air above them while still cooling the land beneath them. While this could cause a problem with birds it is no different than the problems encountered by airports or gold mining operations with their cyanide ponds attracting birds. Numerous inventive and effective solutions have been implemented to prevent issues with birds at our nations airports and cyanide ponds. Jesus you are phoquing stupid. Windmills kill birds when they fly into the blades. What do you suppose PITA will have to say about thaf? I would imagine that the sane ones at pita would recomend the same sort of devices used near cyanide ponds and airports to deter birdstrikes. The insane ones need helmets and jackets with wrap around sleeves.

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