Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Syria Begins


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Syria Begins Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 1:33:57 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Like I said, the excuse for starting one war was one bullet. A lousy excuse but it worked.



Except nobody gains anything from a nuclear war, so nobody is looking for an excuse to start one.
Of course, that's not saying that it couldn't start as a proxy war that escalates to that point.

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 1:35:57 AM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		That's what I was thinking of.................Russia has an alliance with Assad. It could escalate from that one small detail. It would have been better if those missiles had hit Assad himself maybe *smile*.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 1:55:12 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874
That's what I was thinking of.................Russia has an alliance with Assad. It could escalate from that one small detail. It would have been better if those missiles had hit Assad himself maybe *smile*.


Putin also promised the world he would 'assist' Assad in disposing of all chemical weapons... it was a big part of why there was no retaliation from Obama in 2013.

Assad just made Putin look like an idiot.

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 3:55:16 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


The air strike seems to be getting support from most western allies (Japan, Australia, UK, etc)...


Being patted on the back by those who suck your cock does not sem like such a difficult chore.



which is actually kind of important since Trump is such a colossal fuckup in the foreign relations department. Maybe he will end up ditching the neo-fascism and destructive isolationism and go back to spreading American values.


Isolationism is neo-fascism??????
Which "amerikan values" are you speaking of?



Not that I actively support imperialism,

You seem to be.


but it's better than curling into a ball and watching Putin remake Europe in his own image.


Which part of europe are you speaking of?

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think that basic human rights are important for everyone, and are worth fighting for.

Wouldn't it make more sense to start that "human rights" campange in furgistan rather than syria?


If Trump did this because he couldn't stand seeing dead children, then that is probably the best reason anyone could ever have for doing it-- of course, it remains to be seen if this will stop Assad from doing it again.

Tell me again why what assad does is any of our business?

The idea that Putin is someone who should be appeased and feared just doesn't sit right with me.


There is that word "apeased" What is anyone doing to appease putin?


I think he is even more of a threat when we cower in fear and do nothing.


Oh my...a boy scout on a mission. Who are we cowering from? Who has threatened us?


I mean, he has already attacked the US during the 2016 election, and now we have a president who has no business being president.

Of course you are equally outraged with amerikan hacking russian elections?

My biggest fear was that he was holding Trump over a barrel and that the US would be so weak that the entire western world would collapse under Putin's neo-fascist wave, which Trump unapologetically rode throughout his campaign... but now it seems that Kushner or the generals or whoever is having a much bigger influence on him.


How so? Did 'mad dawg' tell him to attack syria???or did he just outline his military opitons?


I definitely support defusing the tensions with Russia, but it's not like Putin is innocent, or that this isn't part of a much larger situation. I'm actually far more worried about what will happen when the full truth about the 2016 election comes out.


I am pretty sure it will show that bill's wife lost the appointment by the e.c.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 4:02:11 AM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

The second syllable of your name is very descriptive of your opinions kampong. Maybe I am stupid but I am far from ignorant and when ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise, so you are definitely not one indulging in folly


Go read his profile and you will have some insight into his opinions.

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 5:02:53 PM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline 		Not seeing how this can end well. Has Trump even thought of that? I guess it succeeded in getting the press to stop talking about Russia interfering with the election. Trump's shortsightedness is one of the most alarming things about this President.

Like him or not, Assad is fighting ISIS, who took over part of his country. If Assad falls, who is going to be in charge of Syria? Seems like Iraq all over again. At least Iraq had recently been at war with the US, and obviously Saddam Hussein wasn't happy with the results of that war and might have eventually attacked the US.

Whatever happened to the enemy of your enemy is your ally?

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 5:15:49 PM   
SunDominant


Posts: 136
Joined: 7/12/2016
Status: offline 		Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government. But that jealousy to be useful must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.

The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people under an efficient government. the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.

Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them.

Taking care always to keep ourselves by suitable establishments on a respectable defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary alliances for extraordinary emergencies.

Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nations, are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest. But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand; neither seeking nor granting exclusive favors or preferences; consulting the natural course of things; diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of commerce, but forcing nothing; establishing (with powers so disposed, in order to give trade a stable course, to define the rights of our merchants, and to enable the government to support them) conventional rules of intercourse, the best that present circumstances and mutual opinion will permit, but temporary, and liable to be from time to time abandoned or varied, as experience and circumstances shall dictate; constantly keeping in view that it is folly in one nation to look for disinterested favors from another; that it must pay with a portion of its independence for whatever it may accept under that character; that, by such acceptance, it may place itself in the condition of having given equivalents for nominal favors, and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater error than to expect or calculate upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion, which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard.

~ G.W.

(in reply to SunDominant)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 5:26:52 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Since Il Douchovitch warned putin so there wouldnt be Russians around it, and Putin warned the Syrians, a couple pocket gophers got offed, that was about the extent of Fearless Leaders pantshitting, and we spent 29 million in missles and a bunch more for support it was a wasteful bunch of feel-good for the feebleminded nutsuckers.

I am sure he will get a Hero of the Soviet Union medal for this.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Dvr22999874)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 5:40:40 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

Whatever happened to the enemy of your enemy is your ally?

Maybe nothing?

According to a think tank that does contract work for NATO and the Israeli government, the West should not destroy ISIS, the fascist Islamist extremist group that is committing genocide and ethnically cleansing minority groups in Syria and Iraq . . . Why? The so-called Islamic State “can be a useful tool in undermining” Iran, Hezbollah, Syria and Russia, argues the think tank’s director. “The continuing existence of IS serves a strategic purpose,” wrote Efraim Inbar in “The Destruction of Islamic State Is a Strategic Mistake” . . .

In his paper, Inbar suggested that it would be a good idea to prolong the war in Syria, which has destroyed the country, killing hundreds of thousands of people and displacing more than half the population. As for the argument that defeating ISIS would make the Middle East more stable, Inbar maintained: “Stability is not a value in and of itself. It is desirable only if it serves our interests” . . .

Several days after Inbar’s paper was published, David M. Weinberg, director of public affairs at the BESA Center, wrote a similarly-themed op-ed titled “Should ISIS be wiped out?” . . . The strategy Inbar and Weinberg have proposed, that of indirectly allowing a fascist Islamist group to continue fighting Western enemies, is not necessarily a new one in American and Israeli foreign policy circles.

In the war in Afghanistan in the 1980s, the CIA and U.S. allies Pakistan and Saudi Arabia armed, trained and funded Islamic fundamentalists in their fight against the Soviet Union and Afghanistan’s Soviet-backed socialist government . . . In the 1980s, Israel adopted a similar policy. It supported right-wing Islamist groups like Hamas in order to undermine the Palestine Liberation Organization, or PLO, a coalition of various left-wing nationalist and communist political parties. ~Source

K.



(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 6:57:38 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

Not seeing how this can end well. Has Trump even thought of that? I guess it succeeded in getting the press to stop talking about Russia interfering with the election. Trump's shortsightedness is one of the most alarming things about this President.

Like him or not, Assad is fighting ISIS, who took over part of his country. If Assad falls, who is going to be in charge of Syria? Seems like Iraq all over again. At least Iraq had recently been at war with the US, and obviously Saddam Hussein wasn't happy with the results of that war and might have eventually attacked the US.

Whatever happened to the enemy of your enemy is your ally?




LD,

The enemy of my enemy is nothing more than my enemy's enemy.

Assad is NOT fighting ISIS. Take a look at a map. ISIS’s territory is centered on its “capital” in Raqqa in the northeast, but Assad and Russia’s theater of operations is in the west and along the coast.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 11:32:38 PM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
LD,

The enemy of my enemy is nothing more than my enemy's enemy.

Assad is NOT fighting ISIS. Take a look at a map. ISIS’s territory is centered on its “capital” in Raqqa in the northeast, but Assad and Russia’s theater of operations is in the west and along the coast.

It worked pretty well for the US and Russia back in WW2.

He used to be in control of the entire country, surely he wants it all back. The rebel forces are between him and the ISIS controlled territory.

So what if he's a bad guy, and uses chemical weapons. I don't think many people would be all that upset if he used them against ISIS.

Perhaps the bigger question is whatever happened to all is fair in love and war?

One of the few things I actually agree with Trump on is that he said we don't win wars anymore. We don't because we don't even really fight to win. This notion that somehow a democratic government can be formed in a region where people want a theocracy is absurd. What the hell have we been doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? Neither of those places wants a democratic government, the only way we could win either of those wars is to claim the territory and put in a permanent occupational government and colonize it to the point Americans outnumber the locals.

The only way to win in Syria is to do the same.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 11:39:00 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Isolationism is neo-fascism??????
Which "amerikan values" are you speaking of?


It is common knowledge that Trump's positions correspond with those of the neo-fascist movements currently on the rise in Europe. Isolationism might not be the right word because it's not like Trump hasn't been talking tough on all of the foreign predators who have been forcing America to its knees since I guess the 1950s or so-- so let's call it protectionism.

The US has always been about protecting and encouraging the development of 'free' societies who respect human rights around the world. Of course, they have also installed and supported figures who clash with these value systems to support corporate interests or stave off an opposing ideological influence, so I am not saying that they have been entirely true to their own purported mission... but I also think that this is typically only the case where the alternative option is at least as bad. They're not going to invade Canada or Denmark and install a puppet government who fails to respect human rights simply so their corporations can gain more of a foothold, for example... they work with what's available, and sometimes that goes bad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Which part of europe are you speaking of?


Putin has aligned himself with the neo-fascist political parties that have sprung from conservative/right wing movements across the western world.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/buchanan-putin-is-leader-of-global-conservative-movement/
https://altright.com/2016/01/14/vladimir-putin-and-the-conservative-revolution/

My point is that withdrawal from world affairs will help Putin (and China), who are planning to remake the world so that it is dominated by their own brand of politics. Trump is an example of the American version of that brand of politics, and his protectionism is essentially a signal to withdraw the US from its position of global influence and allow Putin to set the tone, sort of like how American isolationism would have benefited the Nazis in WWII.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Wouldn't it make more sense to start that "human rights" campange in furgistan rather than syria?


Probably, but we're already involved in Syria.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Tell me again why what assad does is any of our business?


Why do people save other people from drowing? Why is a cancer patient a doctor's business? Why would anyone who doesn't have AIDS want to find a cure for AIDS?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
There is that word "apeased" What is anyone doing to appease putin?


They voted for Trump. The entire 2016 election fiasco. Not responding to a blatant slap in the face after the US warned Assad not to use chemical weapons and Russia got to be a hero by negotiating the removal of such weapons. That kind of thing. This board is full of people who seem to think this is an unprovoked attack on someone who is totally innocent. If Trump had lobbed 57 missiles into Assad's house then maybe we would all have a reason to be outraged... but this wasn't that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Oh my...a boy scout on a mission. Who are we cowering from? Who has threatened us?


So I guess you didn't see all of the 'stop poking the bear with the stick' comments?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Of course you are equally outraged with amerikan hacking russian elections?


So what? That makes it okay???
And which elections did they hack, exactly?
The one where Putin lost the election to his best friend and then remained in power anyways?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
How so? Did 'mad dawg' tell him to attack syria???or did he just outline his military opitons?


This action has had all kinds of bipartisan support around the world.
Doesn't that tell you anything?
Oh right, they're just stupid politicians who don't know anything about the world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I am pretty sure it will show that bill's wife lost the appointment by the e.c.


Do I really have to explain what I mean here?

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Syria Begins - 4/7/2017 11:59:14 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		FR
Sarin was used. I seriously feel like every country that is still stock piling chemical weapons should be shut down! Including North Korea!

Chemical weapons should be completely banned in all warfare! And there should be zero reason for manufacturing it! It's like spreading airborne diseases or Liquid-bourne! Seriously infecting the world.

I agree with Trump's Decision. Initially, I believe Trump just wants to stay out of Syria. And keep Assad in power.

But now this dude is crazy enough to launch of chemical attack. He is dangerous.

It's interesting both Britain and Australia approved of Trump's decision to retaliate.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Syria Begins - 4/8/2017 12:03:01 AM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
Sarin was used. I seriously feel like every country that is still stock piling chemical weapons should be shut down! Including North Korea!

Chemical weapons should be completely banned in all warfare! And there should be zero reason for manufacturing it! It's like spreading airborne diseases or Liquid-bourne! Seriously infecting the world.

I agree with Trump's Decision. Initially, I believe Trump just wants to stay out of Syria. And keep Assad in power.

But now this dude is crazy enough to launch of chemical attack. He is dangerous.

It's interesting both Britain and Australia approved of Trump's decision to retaliate.


Exactly why is Sarin or any other chemical weapon any worse than bullets or landmines or bombs?

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Syria Begins - 4/8/2017 12:10:49 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
Sarin was used. I seriously feel like every country that is still stock piling chemical weapons should be shut down! Including North Korea!

Chemical weapons should be completely banned in all warfare! And there should be zero reason for manufacturing it! It's like spreading airborne diseases or Liquid-bourne! Seriously infecting the world.

I agree with Trump's Decision. Initially, I believe Trump just wants to stay out of Syria. And keep Assad in power.

But now this dude is crazy enough to launch of chemical attack. He is dangerous.

It's interesting both Britain and Australia approved of Trump's decision to retaliate.


Exactly why is Sarin or any other chemical weapon any worse than bullets or landmines or bombs?


http://www.npr.org/2013/05/01/180348908/why-chemical-weapons-have-been-a-red-line-since-world-war-i

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Syria Begins - 4/8/2017 12:27:37 AM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline 		Don't get me wrong, it seems a horrible way to die, and probably survive a moderate exposure, but so can be conventional weapons.

I don't see why the use of these should change the strategic goals, especially since it's already well known he's used them before. I still think if he's not in power, ISIS, or some other organization like them will be.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Syria Begins - 4/8/2017 12:49:07 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline 		It seems Assad has far more in common with ISIS than the other players.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-15155804


(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Syria Begins - 4/8/2017 12:52:38 AM   
LadyDemura


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline 		Not seeing anywhere in that link anything that suggests that, just that the opposition opposes Assad. Duh!

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Syria Begins - 4/8/2017 1:02:40 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

Don't get me wrong, it seems a horrible way to die, and probably survive a moderate exposure, but so can be conventional weapons.

You need to go visit the War Museum in Vietnam to see what chemical weapons that US used on Vietnam did to generations and generations of Vietnamese. The birth defects and freakshows it caused to understand the long lingering residue of chemicals in soil and water that are not easily eradicated and continues to destroy generations.

When people stop firing bullets, people stop dying. But chemicals can really linger and infect for a long time.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Syria Begins - 4/8/2017 1:12:51 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyDemura

Not seeing anywhere in that link anything that suggests that, just that the opposition opposes Assad. Duh!



quote:

The SNC National Consensus Charter lists human rights, judicial independence, press freedom, democracy and political pluralism among its guiding principles.

A former Muslim Brotherhood leader has said the party supports "the establishment of a modern, civil, democratic state."


This is better than what they are getting under Assad, who has effectively outlawed all political opposition, and tightly controls the courts and the press. Oh and we all know what he thinks about human rights.

In addition, a movement like this is either going to collapse or embrace religious freedoms as well.

(in reply to LadyDemura)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Syria Begins Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109