Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 8:55:34 AM)

From the Atlantic:

We’re facing a week with three environmental news pegs: It’s Earth Day, the March for Science is today, and senior advisors at the White House will soon meet to decide whether the United States will remain in the Paris Agreement.

Because of all three, you will probably soon hear about a number of new and old polls about climate change and the American public.

If you care about climate change, they will be frustrating.

These polls often find that most Americans are worried about climate change. (Six out of 10 Americans are “worried,” according to Yale.) Depending on how firms ask the question, they sometimes even find a majority of Americans are concerned. (Pew finds 45 percent are “worried a great deal”; the same Yale poll found only 20 percent were “very worried.”)

When you start proposing hypothetical policies, the numbers often fall. (Fifty percent of Americans support or strongly support a carbon tax, according to a study from the University of Michigan and Muhlenberg College.) But when policies aren’t hypothetical—when they’re the status quo—Americans line up behind them. (Almost 70 percent support former President Obama’s Clean Power Plan; roughly the same number want the United States to stay in the Paris Agreement.)

If you include a partisan watchword in a question, people start answering through a different frame. They give the answer that matches their affiliation—their societal “team”—even if they may harbor doubts about it. There is a vast partisan disagreement, for instance, on the question of whether scientists near-unanimously agree that human industrial activity is causing global warming. (They do; nearly every study finds unanimity on this issue among scientists. But only 13 percent of self-identified conservative Republicans think that’s the case, as compared to 55 percent of liberal Democrats.)

When you leave partisan politics, however, larger majorities appear. Eighty-nine percent and 83 percent of Americans, respectively, support building more solar and wind plants.

When you hear these numbers, they can prompt a certain amount of internal wailing. The Earth is dying. The science is clear. It’s so easy and obvious. So why can’t politicians ​understand that?

The wailing is justified, but also exhausting. The entire story of the issue—from the presentation of the polling data, to the it’s-so-obvious messaging deployed around it, to the frustration vented on social media—seems designed to get people to burn out. And keeping up with all the micro-swings in the polling—concern about climate change is up two percentage points this year!—can seem equally enervating.

Yet there’s little reason to constantly follow the micro-trends in polling, especially the ticks up and down in reported concern. Climate change is a “stuck” issue in American politics. The polling continually points to a larger conclusion: Global warming is a highly partisan issue that most voters do not consider particularly significant to them, personally, even if they are worried about it.

A Yale poll from last month put it starkly: More than 50 percent of Americans believe that climate change will “harm people in the United States,” but fewer than 40 percent of Americans believe it will “harm me, personally.”

A lot of people know about climate change, and a lot of people think it is generally bad. But they do not change their votes because of it. Americans may change their vote because of economic fear, or defense policy, or to protect their property or social privileges. But they do not vote because the ice caps are melting. This is the heart of the climate issue.

There are a few more complicating factors. At this point, if someone is worried about climate change, they’re probably already a consistent Democrat. Journalists have been talking about global warming for 20 years, though not always adeptly. There are just not that many persuadable independents left on the issue.

Climate is an exceptionally hard issue for only one party to “own.” Reducing greenhouse-gas emissions—a process that experts call decarbonization—is much more daunting than just implementing the Clean Power Plan. If we want to stave off dangerous climate change, the United States may need to adjust its energy policy, its tax policy, its foreign policy, its transportation policy, and its industrial policy in the coming years and decades. Historically, changing all those elements together, in the face of a difficult but necessary policy outcome, has been a bipartisan affair.

On top of this, climate even has a small “anti-constituency” of voters. These are men, mostly, who hold down jobs in mining or oil extraction. Some of them are located in populous, electorally strategic states. But decarbonizing might prevent them from supporting a more generous welfare state. I want a world where both parties recognize the urgency of addressing climate change—but, in this one, it is not yet clear to me that championing decarbonization helps the Democrats more than it hurts them.

What will change this dynamic? The stalemate on climate change is a symptom of a sickly and sclerotic political system, but not the disease itself. If Republican political leaders recognized the reality of climate change, bipartisan majorities on climate change would follow. Dave Roberts has written about this idea at Vox, and a meta-analysis of 74 climate polls between 2002 and 2013 reached the same conclusion.

We see this partisan effect on other issues. When President Obama threatened to bomb Syria in 2013, over the use of chemical weapons, only 22 percent of Republicans supported the strikes. When President Trump did the same thing last month, 86 percent of Republicans swung to support him.

Republican leaders may still be years away from signing onto the issue, though. Joseph Majkut, a climate scientist at the Niskanen Center, a libertarian think tank, has talked about the importance of “grinding”: making good-faith, well-supported arguments and trusting that public opinion will eventually follow. Social science has found that the amount of climate-change discussion in the news increases public concern about the issue. People also seem most receptive to doing something about it when the economy is good.

Read more: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/04/climate-polling-burnout/523881/




BoscoX -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 9:40:43 AM)

[image]https://cached-assets.patriotpost.us/images/2017-04-21-f91de181.png[/image]
[image]https://cached-assets.patriotpost.us/images/2017-04-21-7114792d.png[/image]
[image]https://cached-assets.patriotpost.us/images/2017-04-21-7b1588fb.png[/image]

Any questions




Musicmystery -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 9:48:02 AM)

You might try reading the article. The point is what Americans themselves say until partisan politics enters.

Your graphics from patriotpost.us aren't the point -- as patriotpost.us says themselves, "The Patriot Post has grown from its humble beginnings into a highly acclaimed touchstone of Liberty for conservative leaders across our nation." That's clearly partisan, and hence, takes a partisan spin.




BoscoX -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 10:12:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You might try reading the article. The point is what Americans themselves say until partisan politics enters.

Your graphics from patriotpost.us aren't the point -- as patriotpost.us says themselves, "The Patriot Post has grown from its humble beginnings into a highly acclaimed touchstone of Liberty for conservative leaders across our nation." That's clearly partisan, and hence, takes a partisan spin.



As if the Atlantic isn't pure partisan leftist spin and demagoguery?




Musicmystery -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 10:19:14 AM)

*shrug*

Ignore the studies if you like.

But that's what this thread is about.

Some discussion beyond "Nuh-uh." You don't need to prove the partisan point--we all get that part.




BoscoX -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 10:27:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

*shrug*

Ignore the studies if you like.

But that's what this thread is about.

Some discussion beyond "Nuh-uh." You don't need to prove the partisan point--we all get that part.


The thread is about the latest alt left propaganda that you found, nothing more

Now you reduce your own thread to your typical trollish level because it is met with proper criticism rather than "oohs" and "ahs" and you are too simple minded to defend it in a more rational, adult manner







MrRodgers -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 10:27:12 AM)

A barber (shop owner) in S. Carolina starts to ask his customers to sign a petition for congress to do something about global warming. He began to lose his customers. He stopped.

S. Carolina congressman Bob Inglis started to take steps toward actions to address global warming. He was voted out in the next election.

People wish to continue to belong to their 'tribe' on any number of issues, global warming being one of the most social and emotional.

The merits of the case fail to change anyone's mind.




WickedsDesire -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 12:02:25 PM)

Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes - please explain dumbfuks?

heh what one of you thicko feeble brains added to oh say this one First coal-free day in Britain since Industrial Revolution or were you all too fuking dumb and fuking thick

Anyway climate change is a hoax or a Chinese consparcy...heh its not as if the mad lying fuk went on his twat account and tele saying all this eh!
guffaws

heh who did this
Trump signs order undoing Obama climate change policies

Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump




WickedsDesire -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 12:13:16 PM)

I go there from time to time looking to have my brains shagged out and yet here I am laden in muffin matter with thighs that can wreck reality itself and women's wanton thighs before I
set them to task down the muffinium mines to earn their ugly keep

Heh any women up for a complete wrecking?

Guffaws wrong thread...but I will allow it to stand




AtUrCervix -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 12:36:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

*shrug*

Ignore the studies if you like.

But that's what this thread is about.

Some discussion beyond "Nuh-uh." You don't need to prove the partisan point--we all get that part.


The thread is about the latest alt left propaganda that you found, nothing more

Now you reduce your own thread to your typical trollish level because it is met with proper criticism rather than "oohs" and "ahs" and you are too simple minded to defend it in a more rational, adult manner



LOL....dude....did you actually read what he wrote?

He didn't pick sides at all....he simply stated what was happening, who was signing on (or not) and what agencies were doing anything about it.

The debate about whether or not climate change is occurring is over. The ONLY debate left is whether or not man is causing it and whether or not we can (or should) do anything about it.






BoscoX -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 12:38:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

*shrug*

Ignore the studies if you like.

But that's what this thread is about.

Some discussion beyond "Nuh-uh." You don't need to prove the partisan point--we all get that part.


The thread is about the latest alt left propaganda that you found, nothing more

Now you reduce your own thread to your typical trollish level because it is met with proper criticism rather than "oohs" and "ahs" and you are too simple minded to defend it in a more rational, adult manner



LOL....dude....did you actually read what he wrote?

He didn't pick sides at all....he simply stated what was happening, who was signing on (or not) and what agencies were doing anything about it.

The debate about whether or not climate change is occurring is over. The ONLY debate left is whether or not man is causing it and whether or not we can (or should) do anything about it.





Yeah yeah yeah, no debate allowed, the cultish freaks have spoken

The propaganda is on the wall. Raise taxes astronomically or we are all gonna die

Heard it all before a million times




Termyn8or -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 1:16:57 PM)

FR

Not to coin a phrase here but : Everyone talks about the weather but nobody does anything about it.

All this argument about the deniers. It is stupid to think that we are not warming the place up with all we burn, now they say CO2 exacerbates the situation. OK. But what are you going to do about it ? People are already driving little shitcan cars that spew less than a fourth of the emissions of a real car. And if you want to go electric, the generation of electricity generates more CO2 than all the cars combined. That means going nuclear. Nuclear needs fresh water coolant, that will make the CO2 evaporate out of it, thus will not be carbon neutral. I don't know much about thorium reactors but it seems they might make a little less of a dent on the environment.

As far as I am concerned, the only partisan part of it is that liberals think they can tax their way out of this problem. That is impossible. They're trading carbon credits on like a stock market. That certainly worked. How many more companies have to move to that other side of the fishbowl known as China fo people to see reality ?

The reality is that to solve this we need wealth. To get wealth you need to produce something. If that doesn't happen you are dead in the water. Liberals don't seem to understand that. You want research and development, people need money for that. Otherwise you get the ill conceived plans of government, like Solyndra, which turn out to be failures.

I don't particularly care about the opinions of the scientifically challenged, of which there are many in the US. I don't have any confidence in what they say about how bad global warming is, in scope or intensity. If coastal lands flood, then they do. Move. They always said head for the high ground. Takes on a whole new meaning now eh ?

Yes, most scientists agree it is happening, but how much and how much is anthropogenic varies quite a bit, which causes more people to doubt the validity of the whole thing. Some thought Florida would be underwater by now and it ain't.

Last but not least, if you take a look at Bosco's graphs, it all follows the increase in population. If you want to fix the problem for real, we need less people or else we need to start riding bicycles everywhere.

And even then, how do you smelt metal ? How do you run a foundry ? A factory ? We have a hard enough time getting our foot into any market these days and people want to cripple US business even further, while other countries pollute at will ?

You are beating a dead horse. I agree with Trump about getting more real jobs here. He might deny the AGW but in a way he is taking steps in the right direction. We need the M O N E Y to support research into alternative energy and stop burning dead dinosaurs. Sooner or later, technology will advance to the point where something will come up that is viable and put the Arabs out of business.

Actually the oil companies are working on it, basic business. If something comes up they want to be the ones selling it. Every factory and foundry would love to not have to pay that energy bill every month. They might even chip in, if they got the money. But they don't, most such companies are barely hanging on.

T^T




Real0ne -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 1:22:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

A barber (shop owner) in S. Carolina starts to ask his customers to sign a petition for congress to do something about global warming. He began to lose his customers. He stopped.

S. Carolina congressman Bob Inglis started to take steps toward actions to address global warming. He was voted out in the next election.

People wish to continue to belong to their 'tribe' on any number of issues, global warming being one of the most social and emotional.

The merits of the case fail to change anyone's mind.



because its gubmint fraud, used to generate business for their pre-established corporations supplying green shit. [8D]




Musicmystery -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 4:19:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

*shrug*

Ignore the studies if you like.

But that's what this thread is about.

Some discussion beyond "Nuh-uh." You don't need to prove the partisan point--we all get that part.


The thread is about the latest alt left propaganda that you found, nothing more

Now you reduce your own thread to your typical trollish level because it is met with proper criticism rather than "oohs" and "ahs" and you are too simple minded to defend it in a more rational, adult manner



LOL....dude....did you actually read what he wrote?

He didn't pick sides at all....he simply stated what was happening, who was signing on (or not) and what agencies were doing anything about it.

The debate about whether or not climate change is occurring is over. The ONLY debate left is whether or not man is causing it and whether or not we can (or should) do anything about it.




Obvious he didn't. Nor read what you wrote either.

Folks, the issue is -- what's the common ground here?

We already know the partisan differences.




BoscoX -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 5:50:45 PM)

Common ground? You are insane. Leftists hide behind masks while they physically attack people who disagree, how can there be compromise. Beat ourselves half to death, is that your idea of meeting you freaks halfway

"It's settled" remember

Common ground is yet another alt left cartooniosh fantasy







Musicmystery -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 5:57:45 PM)

Well, that's the thread. Perhaps find one you like better.




BoscoX -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 6:42:23 PM)

The thread is whatever gets posted on it

Where is your 'sharp' friend to suggest that I must be gay for correcting you, that can just as easily be the thread. Probably will be in a minute

That's the gist of most threads, after all




Musicmystery -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 6:48:27 PM)

No, most threads, once you show up, are about "Nuh-uh because leftist," where "leftist" means anything you don't want to discuss.

Instead of deliberately derailing them, engage threads with topics you care to discuss.





Aylee -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 6:55:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
When you leave partisan politics, however, larger majorities appear. Eighty-nine percent and 83 percent of Americans, respectively, support building more solar and wind plants.




Sure, solar and wind are nice. Fish and polar bears are nifty as well. Those are not policies or suggestions on doing anything about them.

When you ask me about solar and wind and fish and polar bears, that is one thing. When you add in some partisan stuff, I know where the conversation is going. So my answers start reflecting that.

I would bet that you could get the same number of people to agree with the statement that "food is good." Yet, when you start discussing carbs and proteins, or school lunches, you will start getting disagreements about the goodness of food. Throw the term "GMO" in there with some baseball bats and you could have a blood bath.




Musicmystery -> RE: Americans agree on climate change until partisan language intervenes (4/22/2017 7:04:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
When you leave partisan politics, however, larger majorities appear. Eighty-nine percent and 83 percent of Americans, respectively, support building more solar and wind plants.




Sure, solar and wind are nice. Fish and polar bears are nifty as well. Those are not policies or suggestions on doing anything about them.

When you ask me about solar and wind and fish and polar bears, that is one thing. When you add in some partisan stuff, I know where the conversation is going. So my answers start reflecting that.

I would bet that you could get the same number of people to agree with the statement that "food is good." Yet, when you start discussing carbs and proteins, or school lunches, you will start getting disagreements about the goodness of food. Throw the term "GMO" in there with some baseball bats and you could have a blood bath.

"Building more solar and wind plants" is indeed "doing anything about them."




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