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[Poll]

Democracy vs. Prosperity


Democracy
  62% (5)
Prosperity
  37% (3)


Total Votes : 8
(last vote on : 5/31/2017 1:44:59 AM)
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Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 1:28:25 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline 		I know this will only devolve into personal attacks, but whatever.
If you had to choose one, which one would it be?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 7:47:43 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		They aren't opposed. In fact, one arguably contributes to the other, and vice versa.

There are those, however, who continually sell the idea that lagging prosperity is the fault of others, thereby impinging on democracy, which actually hurts prosperity further, calling for more impingement, hurting it further, calling for yet more impingement . . . it's the history of the US from 1980 to the present.

The question then becomes, prosperity for whom, which is how we got and widened income and class inequality, all the while getting people to call for yet more widening.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 7:59:59 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		its not an 'or' situation theres is no connection between the 2.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 8:04:43 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

They aren't opposed. In fact, one arguably contributes to the other, and vice versa.

There are those, however, who continually sell the idea that lagging prosperity is the fault of others, thereby impinging on democracy, which actually hurts prosperity further, calling for more impingement, hurting it further, calling for yet more impingement . . . it's the history of the US from 1980 to the present.

The question then becomes, prosperity for whom, which is how we got and widened income and class inequality, all the while getting people to call for yet more widening.




there are no democracys in practice on the planet, it is a fraudulent make you feel good word so you create your own delusion that you are not a slave when in fact you are. There is no differnce between having 400 lawyers making laws for you or one person, either way you are disconnected.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 8:05:43 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you Captain Obvious.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 8:17:55 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		Obvious or lawnmower which would you prefer?




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 9:46:46 AM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		What does a real democracy look like?
I have never seen one.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 9:49:36 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11271
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

What does a real democracy look like?
I have never seen one.




_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 10:17:02 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline 		Well, it's a hypothetical situation, not a statement... rooted in my everpresent fear that people are too stupid for democracy to work, which actually isn't mine alone:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2108341/Is-reason-democracy-work-Study-humans-dumb-pick-right-person-lead-us.html

So let's define 'democracy' as something in which popular opinion has at least some effect on the laws and actions taken by the government.
There are relatively free and fair elections on the federal, provincial and municipal levels.
The media is mindlessly partisan on both sides, but very free.

Prosperity means everyone enjoys a reasonable degree of wealth and opportunity, and there is no overt oppression.
And how about we throw in universal health care, education through college and extensive programs (not welfare, I mean actual services) to help people who don't have jobs.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 11:12:12 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		therein lies your biggest problem, the scope of democracy is not limited to electing which fucking attorney you want to represent you in the court we call congress.

democracy requires full participation in every damn law passed and that can only be accompleished by PUBLIC referendum and vote on every issue, otherwise its a republic and disconnected from the voter since said representative attorneys cant read anyones fucking minds and the only way they coupld possibly know how to vote for us is through PUBLIC REFERENDUM for each issue.

this country like the UK is called a democracy because al capone and the boys sit around the table and take a democratic vote what position you will take to be fucked next, hence a demobcratic gubmint IN PRACTICE.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/29/2017 11:54:02 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline 		People aren't interested in participating in every damn law passed.
Most won't write their local representatives to state their concerns.
And the majority aren't even interested in being properly informed.

This isn't about whether or not democracy exists, it's essentially about whether you would prefer a prosperous, competently-run dictatorship to what we have now.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/30/2017 1:09:15 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

People aren't interested in participating in every damn law passed.




They arent interested because the so called law is so fucking twisted out of shape its unintelligible and unrecognizable until of course they come face to face with judge dredd, then they get interested when they find out they cant have a same sex marriage or get needed medications because there is a law that some asshelmet run through preventing them from doing so. Even worse when they discover they cant get it because they are victims of gubmint+business rackteering.

Here is a question back to you.

Who would give a shit what kind of gubmint we have as long as its honest equitable and honorable?

People are not interested in crawling into a vipers pit and becoming one to fight all their live against a corrupt to the core system to get one fucking thing changed.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/30/2017 10:50:02 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Who would give a shit what kind of gubmint we have as long as its honest equitable and honorable?
People are not interested in crawling into a vipers pit and becoming one to fight all their live against a corrupt to the core system to get one fucking thing changed. [/color]


Even if it were as honest and equitable as humanly possible, how would it be possible to even convince someone like you that this was the case?

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/30/2017 10:59:16 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I know this will only devolve into personal attacks, but whatever.
If you had to choose one, which one would it be?

I come from a country where we choose prosperity for ALL over Democracy, screw democracy if it brings poverty to all and sufferings and joblessness.

So definitely Prosperity. I can deal with less freedom if nobody starve, everyone has easy access to jobs, easy access to good quality education and a culture of encouraging academic learning and self-improvement.

I think Libya was another great example of like the ONLY African country that achieved a certain level of prosperity to all their citizens. Women were encouraged to be well educated. Everyone had homes, access to education, health care, and well taken care of.

Until the damn US and their democracy bullshit by the "saviour" Obama came in and brought democracy to Libya and turn Libya into a wreck now back to typical African backwardness of non stop infighting and chaos. As you can't bring democracy to a country not ready for democracy.

People get upset about Bush wrecking Iraq. But I just cannot stand how no left media complains about how Obama wreck Libya, especially, to be fair, Saddam I felt didn't alleviate poverty from his people. But Gaddafi definitely did for his people. And brought forward thinking of encouraging educating women considering it's a Muslim society.




(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/31/2017 12:23:33 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		what you fail to undestand greta is that democracy is and always has been a fraud.

all we do is vote for our next overlords and thats it, done for 4 years, or 6 whatever.

Its so simple to do a coup and take over it ridiculous, just groom your people to run on both sides of the ticket as they have been doing for years here, and treat elections like foot ball playoffs.

Like MM said in another thread we have a kleptocracy, frankly I like da' mobcracy because it saves people the need to grab a dictionary.

We have a complete disconnect between the people and the gubmint by design yet everyione is smoking the freedom reefer and are beyond educating any of them.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/31/2017 12:26:30 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Who would give a shit what kind of gubmint we have as long as its honest equitable and honorable?
People are not interested in crawling into a vipers pit and becoming one to fight all their live against a corrupt to the core system to get one fucking thing changed.


Even if it were as honest and equitable as humanly possible, how would it be possible to even convince someone like you that this was the case?



someone just started a rothschild thread, in which case they made their fortune by cheating, no one or family should be able to enmasse more fucking wealth than a nation especialy the way they did, and the rocky fellers did and literally every one of those assholes are guilty of high crimes in the aquisition of the money.

Piss them off and they get someone to start a war with you and suck your blood dry

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/31/2017 12:29:30 AM   
blnymph


Posts: 1600
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I know this will only devolve into personal attacks, but whatever.
If you had to choose one, which one would it be?



Switzerland is a good example you can have both

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/31/2017 12:30:31 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		thats no paradise either

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/31/2017 1:08:57 AM   
blnymph


Posts: 1600
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

thats no paradise either


paradise is a lovely story in books

reality isn't perfect anywhere


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Democracy vs. Prosperity - 5/31/2017 3:30:14 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

I know this will only devolve into personal attacks, but whatever.
If you had to choose one, which one would it be?

I come from a country where we choose prosperity for ALL over Democracy, screw democracy if it brings poverty to all and sufferings and joblessness.

So definitely Prosperity. I can deal with less freedom if nobody starve, everyone has easy access to jobs, easy access to good quality education and a culture of encouraging academic learning and self-improvement.

I think Libya was another great example of like the ONLY African country that achieved a certain level of prosperity to all their citizens. Women were encouraged to be well educated. Everyone had homes, access to education, health care, and well taken care of.

Until the damn US and their democracy bullshit by the "saviour" Obama came in and brought democracy to Libya and turn Libya into a wreck now back to typical African backwardness of non stop infighting and chaos. As you can't bring democracy to a country not ready for democracy.

People get upset about Bush wrecking Iraq. But I just cannot stand how no left media complains about how Obama wreck Libya, especially, to be fair, Saddam I felt didn't alleviate poverty from his people. But Gaddafi definitely did for his people. And brought forward thinking of encouraging educating women considering it's a Muslim society.


Maybe they weren't complaining about Obama because it was NATO who intervened in Libya, not Obama.
And they were in the middle of a civil war.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 20
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