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RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 11:44:17 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
It probably has to do with tribalism. Cultures/races that progressed were able to bring the masses together under leadership with a vision and got everyone together to support and work toward that vision. African tribes probably focused more on individual tribes and never all came together.


Except Europe only managed to pull ahead of the Middle East and China when they developed nation states and started constantly battling each other.
I'm pretty sure that the Africans had a way of life that suited them just fine, so they felt no need to change it.

The thing is, they were probably right... all of our so-called progress has brought us closer to global extinction than we've ever been before.
We'd all be a lot safer if we had just stayed in the woods.

(in reply to tamaka)
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RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 11:48:05 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You mean without the internet and ice cream? Come on!!!!

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RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 11:54:14 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

It probably has to do with tribalism. Cultures/races that progressed were able to bring the masses together under leadership with a vision and got everyone together to support and work toward that vision. African tribes probably focused more on individual tribes and never all came together.


You have some good thoughts, tamaka.

But there are other factors that might explain "stymied" and "isolated" African tribal cultures, at least two other huge factors to consider. No, maybe three.

1. The geography of the continent made it extremely difficult for people to interconnect and benefit from growing a pool of information.

2. The inability to gather a pool of information delayed the development of new technologies (which in turn kept the tribes isolated)

3. After the 15th (?) Century and the Portuguese explorations along the coast line several European nations moved inland to colonize the continent under the bullshit "legal" justification that it was unoccupied land and free for the taking. They plundered Africa of natural resources like ivory, free-growth rubber vines, gold and other valuable minerals.

The Europeans had their own private armies in some cases and they gave grants to private companies. Much of this on the heels of the journeys of the great explorer Henry Stanley (Dr. Livingston, I presume?)

The result in Africa from 1885 to 1910 was the destruction of thousands of villages and tribes and maybe the deaths of 8 to 12 million natives who were forced to work at gunpoint, especially as supply "bearers" through impassable terrain. Often families were kidnapped and held hostage to induce the men to work (til they dropped from lack of water or food)

All of these, I think were, factors in dwarfing African cultures in a primative state.

In a similar fashion you can take a look at the colonization of the Americas by the Spanish who imposed regimes of oppression on the natives that exist still today. We have many Inca and Mayan natives cutting grass and cleaning hotel rooms here in the U.S.

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to tamaka)
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RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 11:57:24 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
It probably has to do with tribalism. Cultures/races that progressed were able to bring the masses together under leadership with a vision and got everyone together to support and work toward that vision. African tribes probably focused more on individual tribes and never all came together.


Except Europe only managed to pull ahead of the Middle East and China when they developed nation states and started constantly battling each other.
I'm pretty sure that the Africans had a way of life that suited them just fine, so they felt no need to change it.

The thing is, they were probably right... all of our so-called progress has brought us closer to global extinction than we've ever been before.
We'd all be a lot safer if we had just stayed in the woods.

I couldn't disagree more.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 12:01:02 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka
It probably has to do with tribalism. Cultures/races that progressed were able to bring the masses together under leadership with a vision and got everyone together to support and work toward that vision. African tribes probably focused more on individual tribes and never all came together.


Except Europe only managed to pull ahead of the Middle East and China when they developed nation states and started constantly battling each other.
I'm pretty sure that the Africans had a way of life that suited them just fine, so they felt no need to change it.

The thing is, they were probably right... all of our so-called progress has brought us closer to global extinction than we've ever been before.
We'd all be a lot safer if we had just stayed in the woods.

Vast Empires rose and dominated for 1000s of years in Africa.

Mongolia conquered half the globe--on horseback.

Ming China went protectionist, or Europe would never have caught up.

The Middle East advanced science, astronomy, mathematics and philosophy at a time when Europe couldn't find its ass. Then they questioned the value of outer accomplishment and started to search within instead.

Rome was once pretty much Europe. The Ottonians and the Francks had their turn too.

The US rose in prominence primarily because Europe had two major wars on its own soil, severely setting back production, opening opportunities for American goods (an opportunity we squandered by treating it as our birthright instead of setting it aside as the windfall it was).

Then there're the Aztec, Mayan, and Incan Empires.

Tribalism has nothing to do with it. Empires rise, empires fall. The few hundred years we're talking about is nothing -- and even in that time, Holland and Portugal were world powers.

Ebb and flow. Cycles over thousands of years. People and tribes come together, and fall apart again in time. Has nothing to do with race or culture. It's what humans do.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
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RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 12:02:34 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Why didn't it happen with any of the countries they originated from


There seems to me to be a common thread here.... It takes a certain kind of person to decide to pull up stakes and move to a new life perhaps thousands of miles away. For instance most people to come to America looking for a new life were not forced to come. They were brave, adventurous, hardworking and industrious.

There were of course those that came involuntarily or to escape persecution but I believe the majority just wanted to find a better life for themselves and their families.

This concentration of special people I believe has made America great. But, sad but so, this gene pool is becoming more and more polluted over time as has happened many times in our world history.... The next exodus may need be the moon or Mars.

Butch

Many impoverished and ignorant Englishmen and Irishmen were gathered up from streets and overflowing work houses and shipped unwillingly to the new world as indentured slaves. Their gene pools are likely still with us and writing great Western & Country music which I love

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 12:08:25 PM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Why didn't it happen with any of the countries they originated from


There seems to me to be a common thread here.... It takes a certain kind of person to decide to pull up stakes and move to a new life perhaps thousands of miles away. For instance most people to come to America looking for a new life were not forced to come. They were brave, adventurous, hardworking and industrious.

There were of course those that came involuntarily or to escape persecution but I believe the majority just wanted to find a better life for themselves and their families.

This concentration of special people I believe has made America great. But, sad but so, this gene pool is becoming more and more polluted over time as has happened many times in our world history.... The next exodus may need be the moon or Mars.

Butch

Many impoverished and ignorant Englishmen and Irishmen were gathered up from streets and overflowing work houses and shipped unwillingly to the new world as indentured slaves. Their gene pools are likely still with us and writing great Western & Country music which I love

I think it's even been suggested that there's some interplay between Irish folk and the blues as well, though I'm not sure I buy that one.

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(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 12:11:53 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

The Middle East advanced science, astronomy, mathematics and philosophy at a time when Europe couldn't find its ass. Then they questioned the value of outer accomplishment and started to search within instead.


The way Neil DeGrasse Tyson tells it a leading Islamic cleric railed against mathematics as the devil's work, and lead to the destruction of a marvelous scientific enterprise in Baghdad.

quote:

The US rose in prominence primarily because Europe had two major wars on its own soil, severely setting back production, opening opportunities for American goods


Yes, you are quite right but the industrial revolution had its start in the late 19th Century at the height of British hegemony. And the Digital revolution had its origin in America except it is nothing the Asians are incapable of.

quote:

Has nothing to do with race or culture. It's what humans do.


I agree that it has nothing to do with race but you cannot rule out culture, otherwise you invalidate your comments about the ME vs Europe Dark Ages.




< Message edited by vincentML -- 5/31/2017 12:12:37 PM >

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 12:11:58 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		hmmmmm.... If we go back even further I believe there may be another reason for the different march towards cooperative societies that came to dominate Africa. Totally unfounded in any research and just a thought that is not meant to be racist but may make sense to some.

There has been recent discoveries that perhaps man did not originate in Africa and move into Europe but I believe this is besides my point. I think as mankind traveled in search of new lands and to escape warfare those that moved to the northern latitudes were faced with a more challenging environment, especially during the ice age. To survive they needed to band together in a tight society unlike those in a more moderate climate of Africa in general. This forced innovation and a cooperative society that advanced them materially and gave them an advantage when confronting African societies.

Of course there are many other reasons and my theory may or may not be the main reason for the domination of Africa by European nations but it could have played a part.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/31/2017 12:15:32 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 12:14:15 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Why didn't it happen with any of the countries they originated from


There seems to me to be a common thread here.... It takes a certain kind of person to decide to pull up stakes and move to a new life perhaps thousands of miles away. For instance most people to come to America looking for a new life were not forced to come. They were brave, adventurous, hardworking and industrious.

There were of course those that came involuntarily or to escape persecution but I believe the majority just wanted to find a better life for themselves and their families.

This concentration of special people I believe has made America great. But, sad but so, this gene pool is becoming more and more polluted over time as has happened many times in our world history.... The next exodus may need be the moon or Mars.

Butch

Many impoverished and ignorant Englishmen and Irishmen were gathered up from streets and overflowing work houses and shipped unwillingly to the new world as indentured slaves. Their gene pools are likely still with us and writing great Western & Country music which I love


Maybe we can ship them to Mars too...

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 12:20:11 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I think as mankind traveled in search of new lands and to escape warfare those that moved to the northern latitudes were faced with a more challenging environment, especially during the ice age. To survive they needed to band together in a tight society unlike the more moderate climate of Africa in general. This forced innovation and a cooperative society that advanced them materially and gave them an advantage when confronting African societies.


Sure, an excellent point, Butch, migration to northern climes where agriculture became a settled way of life.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The deciding factor on which race dominates - 5/31/2017 12:21:34 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Why didn't it happen with any of the countries they originated from


There seems to me to be a common thread here.... It takes a certain kind of person to decide to pull up stakes and move to a new life perhaps thousands of miles away. For instance most people to come to America looking for a new life were not forced to come. They were brave, adventurous, hardworking and industrious.

There were of course those that came involuntarily or to escape persecution but I believe the majority just wanted to find a better life for themselves and their families.

This concentration of special people I believe has made America great. But, sad but so, this gene pool is becoming more and more polluted over time as has happened many times in our world history.... The next exodus may need be the moon or Mars.

Butch

Many impoverished and ignorant Englishmen and Irishmen were gathered up from streets and overflowing work houses and shipped unwillingly to the new world as indentured slaves. Their gene pools are likely still with us and writing great Western & Country music which I love


Maybe we can ship them to Mars too...

I hear the Martians already have their own indigenous music so could be a conflict

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 32
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